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Yoink's (7.7) Balance Changes - Templar


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Every class has a viable spec in solo, group, and large scale.
All talent choices are competitive with each other and placed in appropriate locations within the talent tree.
Make adjustment to abilities that underperform.
If a mechanic is oppressive, change it in such a way so that it retains what makes it good but is no longer oppressive.

Fury and Paladin are in very bad spots. Vindicator is very good right now because of Dragoon and holy damage. Fury needs a niche and Paladin needs its viability as a healer brought up to other healers.


Holy Warrior - Grants 80% PDM during the animation.
The first part of this ability reads like it is a defensive cooldown. The animation is so long that you just die when using it defensively. Templars have the worst ultimate in the game so having this act as a 2nd mini ultimate would be fine.

Devotion - Change to a toggle. Reduce the base healing by 50%.
In its current form this ability has a 60% uptime. I would change to have 100% uptime and adjust the healing to compensate for that. This would smooth the ability out a bit and make it more attractive.

Reproach - Remove the 1st part of the Combo. Increase Righteous Smash PHM to 10%.
3-Part combos that do not do much just aren't good enough. Make this ability a bit more efficient.

Righteous Reflections - Have this deal 50 thorns damage in addition to the reflected ranged damage.
The damage reflected currently is very ‘meh’. This change would make the talent more desirable.

Retribution - Replace 3% damage with 25 Attack Power.
This talent reads as if it is very good but it really doesn’t do much. Specs that want damage bonus will already have it from STR, Gear, and the Divine Power talent, which is just way better. Being in this spot in the talent tree, we can replace it with a very powerful effect that is hard to reach.

Divine Intervention - Replace ‘all melee attacks apply damnation’ with ‘drops divine light at your location’.
This talent is almost worth taking. The damnation on auto attack part is mostly useless. Damnation is already all over from Clerics and Vindicators and does not stack. Having and extra Divine Light drop at your location would be interesting.

Blinding Light - In addition, “Heals allies around you for X, where X=Support Power.
This is just another ability that is never worth the talent point for being in the most difficult part of the tree to reach. Adding a heal component will help bring up the viability of the Paladin, which is sorely needed.

Swap Blinding Light and Divine Intervention positions in the talent tree.
Blinding Light should be made more available and Divine Intervention is strong enough now to be placed in a difficult to reach spot.

Vindicator Divine Light Enhancement -  In addition, make it so that Divine Lights from Vindicators can not stack.
I think it could be a debuff similar to Needlin’ Haystack from Hellraiser disc. If an enemy is standing inside of a vindicators Divine Light they have a debuff that ticks for damage like Divine Light normally does now but this would not stack. If they step out of the Divine Light, the debuff instantly falls off. This will help to bring the holy damage stacking in line without taking anything away from the Vindicators on their own.

Holy Shout - Add to the ability, ‘Removes any of your Divine Light’s already placed and drops a Divine Light at your location with a 3s duration’.
This talent is never worth the point. Talents after choosing your promotion should be very competitive.

Fury Divine Light Enhancement - Radius increased to 12m. Enemies inside of your Divine Light have their RMB disabled. (no block, dodge, or parry).
Fury Devotion Enhancement - Passively cleanses all CC effects on your group every 12s
Penitence - change to an 8m area of effect.

Fury is in a very bad spot. They have no niche. Previously they could bring Troubadour PDM debuff with music domain. They were not even the best at doing that. Dragoon has also made Music Fury obsolete. They need to do something that is unique and worth doing.

Paladin Promotion New Enhancement - Brilliance makes everyone in your group Immune to damage for 5s.
Paladins are the worst healer in the game. They do not have a proper healing ult. You could simply make Brilliance enhanced for them to be a group heal but we already have a few of those in the game and this feels much more like a paladin ability. This would be something a bit more interesting. Note that this is immune to damage, and not invulnerable. Your group can still be CC’ed during this damage immunity.

Paladin Devotion Enhancement - Change ‘cleanse and prevent DoT effects for a short amount of time to passively happen every 12s.
Changed to work with the new Devotion ability. Will make for interesting builds that try to maximize damage to heal through the new devotion

Paladin Devotion Enhancement - Require a charge to cast. Regenerate 1 charge every 25s.
Worst healer in the game and needs love. This will help with not actually having an ult that can heal and will allow for some mobility. Can stack 2 Divine Lights every 50s or can have 1 down in 2 different locations.



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6 minutes ago, UnderGrowth said:

Just remove holy damage from the game, True damage is an unhealthy mechanic to balance around in a pvp game with so much emphasis on gear.

That is incorrect. I would agree that you can't mitigate and that is hard time but it's been like that forever. I believe Yoinks ideas are really good. Please stop trying to Barbarian certain classes cause you cant handle the Holy heat :)

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8 minutes ago, UnderGrowth said:

Just remove holy damage from the game, True damage is an unhealthy mechanic to balance around in a pvp game with so much emphasis on gear.

That is incorrect. I would agree that you can't mitigate and that is hard time, but it's been like that forever. I believe Yoinks ideas are really good. Please stop trying to Barbarian certain classes cause you can't handle the Holy heat :)


Crowfall should hire Yoink to help make crowfall great again :)

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Just now, KaiduKhan said:

That is incorrect. I would agree that you can't mitigate and that is hard time, but it's been like that forever. I believe Yoinks ideas are really good. Please stop trying to Barbarian certain classes cause you can't handle the Holy heat :)


Crowfall should hire Yoink to help make crowfall great again :)

Just because something has "been like that forever" does not make it a good mechanic or healthy for the game. It is a distinct balance issue that is in a complete stark contrast to the effort the devs have already made to making defenses more meaningful, even if the routes they took were baking buffs into gear ( which is a whole different discussion entirely). Both the classes that have access to holy damage, will be perfectly fine without it.

The reason holy damage was "put up with" in the past was because you could stack PDM up to 50% for the group, this was also coupled with a state of the game where armor pens and mitigation strips were so powerful that everyone ran around practically naked. Then came along the PDM nerf's because PDM was never meant to be used in that fashion, these nerf's were fine, and was a good step towards fixing the stark contrast in offense vs defense.

They then decided to buff armor by around 20% across the board, though I think it would have been better to put some AC buffs on classes, this has helped, but still has too much importance on gear. Defenses in general still need some adjustment ( it's extremely difficult to hit resistance caps on some tank classes still).

This brings us back to holy damage which is the last dregs that needs to be addressed. and at this point into time, has an absolutely overwhelming opportunity cost in the benefit to the user of the holy damage. Anyone who has access to it, effectively stops their opponents defense from scaling past 0, completely nullifying their investment at either the press of a button, or the simple cost of allocation of a node.

As I mentioned in my shorter comment, For such a heavily gear reliant game, that already has a offensive for defensive balance issues. True damage has no place. In the immediate it needs to be nuked from the game, and if they deem it necessary CAREFULLY re-added at a later date after offense and defense are more balanced.

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In response to Yoinks Novel.


Holy Warrior -  Remove Holy damage ,  Change to all attacks become fire damage & increase fire damage + cap by 20% (this can be whatever number to make up for lack of holy) , Also benefits the +20% Fire damage the Paladin & Fury get.   Will also curb the vindicator a bit even if you raise the cap since fire resistance can be picked up from majors & minors or added to armor.   Rest of the skill is fine the way it is.  I don't think I've ever seen a Templar die under Holy Warrior Activation.

Devotion -  60% Uptime is fine as is.   Need more majors that proc at a 1s rate that are offensive spec'd.  Pairing any offensive ability with devotion that has a higher rate returns nice heals.   Only benefit to 100% uptime it would allow the templar to potentially build up more crit chance and healing amount.  Overall you'll end up doing less healing if you can't stick to your target.  Current one rewards aggression.  Or just reduce the cooldown by a couple seconds.

Reproach -  No brainer . Reduce to 2 parts increase PHM to at least 10%

Righteous Reflect -  Adding thorns to this will just move it back to being broken.  When all templars could run blood rose this was the best way to beat radicals. Blood rose + Parry. Now you won't have to heal?  Probably revert this back to 60 or 65% instead. Since mitigations effect this.  Reflect can be very difficult to balance just because how they work.

Retribution-  Better change than the current damage bonus so doing AP is fine. Wouldn't help the Vindis to much but would give purpose to the Paladin & Fury.

Divine Intervention -  Switch Holy Dot to fire dot .  Leave as is.  Perk of it is the heal and the nice 15% Melee damage bonus it gives. they could also extend the buff a little to give it more value without it.  Or  at 50% drops another divine light at the players location with current effects. Might be to powerful but who knows.

Blinding Light -  No to the Healing Burst 2.0 .  Talent needs a rework for sure but making it healing burst 2.0 that is pickable for vindi/fury  and a double pick for paladin no thanks.  Paladins dont need this as a 2nd burst option.  Maybe PHM reduction for enemy?  10%?

Vindicator Divine Light Enhancement  - Nope just need to get rid of holy damage not adjust stacking. 

Holy Shout - Only reason it is weak currently is that there is a lot of FF and anti CC mechanics.  Its still a decent skill could use maybe a small enhancement here.  Really a good skill for peeling & when coordinated with multiple vindicators when FF isnt in play.  Def not the strongest pick but for having basically no animation for KD its pretty good. Would take a minor tweak here . Upping the damage would be a fine solution for a free pip spender that restores pips.

Fury Divine Light Enhancement -  Please god no.  This will become the defacto spec with the no RMB or dodge.  Basically tell the knight he's no longer needed while you're at it.  No change needed. maybe an increase in 2m form 10 to 12.

Fury Devotion Enhancement -  Just needs to be flash cast .  Can maybe even give the fury a small CD reduction on their devotion for being a hybrid which would up their healing a bit too. 

Penitence -  see other balance thread for fury.  This brings nothing unique to the fury.

Paladin Promotion Enhancement brilliance-  Not Needed .  Change for all of them to 500 ult & make the heal component apply to group.  For a 1k Ult on all spec's this thing is lack luster or get crazy and apply barriers to whole group.   So Paladin would be putting up crazy barriers for the group while the other 2 would be doing minor barriers for the group.  Either way would fit the protection theme of templars without being crazy.  Would also make mass dispel worth taking as a major. 

Paladin Devotion Enhancement -  this change is fine wouldn't be crazy OP since i think current immunity is 3s for the cast so a 2nd cast 12s later wouldnt be off the wall.

Making this cost a pip is a terrible idea to regenerate a charge every 25s? Assuming some type of typo is here. Since I'm hoping this isnt referring to pips.   When you're empty and depending on where the internal cooldown is at that pip can come back anywhere from 8s to 15s+.  If pips are a problem in group for a Paladin then bearer's insignia is the place for them in justice . Especially if its "ranged' combat.   Maybe strip its out of group context and any 1k heal to self or others will do. 

Other My own Comments

Paladin Talent -
Allow this to build up on ourselves at least.  Its useless unless you have a 2nd person

Sin - This needs a purpose. We apply it with devotion & censure.  Used to be good with convictor & the prosecute skill but that now just spreads more sin & templars can spread it pretty easy with devotion. 


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