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Kickstarter Incentives (Or Lack Thereof)


Tyroki
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I am just being lazy, editing from my phone is a pain in the bottom.

I get it, but other people reading from their phone can't see your remark if enough of you quote wall text, especially when it's the OP which everyone should find in context without a quote since it is the foundation of the thread.

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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I get it, but other people reading from their phone can't see your remark if enough of you quote wall text, especially when it's the OP which everyone should find in context without a quote since it is the foundation of the thread.

I can make a change sir! I will bathe in your waters and sing your praises for you have shown me the light!

 

I do agree, I will be a little less lazy!

Edited by Adall
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No QFT quotes here plz....i still have a banestone somewhere !!  :P

 

But in all seriousness....the Rewards were/are a tad weak.

 

I coughed up $500, because this is the game ive been waiting for ( was pondering going to $1,000, but not for those rewards).....but the original kickstarter rewards are past, now they need to do some upgrades to get more players involved, and past kickstarter donators to upgrade.

 

Now, my big problem is the Stretch Goals...

 

"Female Centaurs" as the first stretch goal is the reason that the Kickstarter pledges have slowed to a crawl over the last couple days.

 

Yes, i know they have "advanced particle effects".......wow....exciting isnt it?  if i put a printout of Stretch Goal #1 under my pillow.....the "Advanced Particle effects" fairy will come and leave me a quarter......

 

And dont get me started on "female centaurs".......YAWN!!!

 

The Stretch goal #2 should have been Stretch goal #1......much more exciting, and would have gotten more pledges.

 

Crowfall Devs need to spice up the Kickstarter packages before interest is gone, and people just plan on waiting it out...

 

Just my opinon.....

 

 

They probably didn't think they'd be able to finish mounts without another hire on the team. If they had switched it up, not only would they have encountered the possibility of not being able to fulfil the stretch goal, but pledges would be crawling after stretch goal #1 anyway. Now, after stretch goal #1, perhaps pledges will even increase.

 

I think they chose the right order.

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I agree that I wish there were shorter stepping stones to easily push people towards raising their pledge. "C'mon it's just $10/$15, let's hit the next stretch goal", instead of 40-100+. I assume we'll just see a counter thrown on the front page, and pledge addons thrown on the website once KS is done. The devs got their core funding.

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I do agree with you that the rewards and the stretch goals aren't that great, and that they should defiantly add something else to make it more worthwhile.

 

 

 

Again though. Many are going out on a limb here, and are being asked to trust. What reason do they have to go out on a limb, backing a project that while interesting, is also dangerous and risky.

 

Yet, as a response to this, you do know that the whole thing about kickstarter is backing projects that are interesting and yet risky? To see if, an idea you find intriguing, will actually work? 

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Analyze less, learn to play an instrument.

Are you saying that the topic is being overthought or worried about too much? I do think that it is a important topic and one that needs to be discussed. If we just say "Oh the game is funded I won't touch it until it's out" We may very well end up getting something like GW2 where they had amazing ideas and concepts but they felt like they were all half done and underwhelming.

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I agree that I wish there were shorter stepping stones to easily push people towards raising their pledge. "C'mon it's just $10/$15, let's hit the next stretch goal", instead of 40-100+. I assume we'll just see a counter thrown on the front page, and pledge addons thrown on the website once KS is done. The devs got their core funding.

 

I agree they probably will put things on to their site. But the better the kickstarter does, the more buzz it generates.

If they don't generate much buzz from the kickstarter, they'll lose traction and momentum, and their site pledges just won't go so well.

There is also no guarantee currently that they will do what, say, Star Citizen did, giving all of their kickstarter backers all promised shinies since the get go.

 

 

I do agree with you that the rewards and the stretch goals aren't that great, and that they should defiantly add something else to make it more worthwhile.

 

 

 

Yet, as a response to this, you do know that the whole thing about kickstarter is backing projects that are interesting and yet risky? To see if, an idea you find intriguing, will actually work? 

 

This is why successful kickstarter projects tend to give more incentive in order to alleviate the worries of that risk. Again, with an actual publisher, worries are alleviated by making a project less risky with promises of much profit for the investment.

 

Here we just don't have enough to alleviate those worries, and unlike a publisher, we don't get anything out of it without incentives. That's why kickstarter campaigns give incentives. You get something out of it.

 

Crowfalls kickstarter isn't even giving enough incentives for some of the pledges to make it worth the risk. $30 to save $50? That's worth the risk. $215 to get 6 years of VIP and a whole slew of random digital content? Potentially worth the risk, though we don't know the monetary value of this content nor do we know how much effort it would take to make some of it (or at least the free versions). We also don't know if the digital content offered so far will be to our liking. The Villa offered, as an example, will be unique. But we don't know what it looks like. They haven't even come up with a mockup of it, so we don't even know if we'd like it. We don't even know what the standard version looks like.

 

On VIP, keep in mind that 6 years of VIP is only worth it, if the game is not a flop (i.e: Has a large enough following to last longer than a year. If it doesn't have a large enough following, you end up fighting the same old people. That gets old quickly.)

In fact, the 6 years of VIP offered in the $215 pledge ($250 now all the slots are gone) are the equivilent of Lifetime Access. Star Trek Online had lifetime access, though it wasn't a kickstarter project, and was a major flop for the first few years. A lot of the people who bought lifetime access right off the bat while it was still offered, wished that they could get their money back. It was a massive loss for them.

 

The Secret World had Lifetime Access. It went F2P, and none of them were recompensed.

 

As you can see, the problem with jumping on a risk is you can very much get burned. Without incentives, most people in their right mind would not touch. This is part of why so many people are stuck on the fence, or why so many people have the cheapest possible option that gives eventual access to the game. There is no reason to upgrade. There to no reason to buy.

 

Are you saying that the topic is being overthought or worried about too much? I do think that it is a important topic and one that needs to be discussed. If we just say "Oh the game is funded I won't touch it until it's out" We may very well end up getting something like GW2 where they had amazing ideas and concepts but they felt like they were all half done and underwhelming.

 

 

Quite right, and oh gods... Guild Wars 2. Overpromised, underdelivered.

I also need to point out to people a recent kickstarter 'failure' that was successfully funded.

Godus

 

This amongst many other kickstarter 'successes' turned failures unfortunately have tainted the reputation of kickstarter in general. People are less willing to trust based on reputation these days. Again, why incentives are more important than ever. Godus may have been one of the most recent examples, but is one of the biggest coming from someone with a reputation (that being said anyone who didn't look further in to Molyneux's reputation was in for a bad time, but still)

Edited by Tyroki
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Are you saying that the topic is being overthought or worried about too much? I do think that it is a important topic and one that needs to be discussed. If we just say "Oh the game is funded I won't touch it until it's out" We may very well end up getting something like GW2 where they had amazing ideas and concepts but they felt like they were all half done and underwhelming.

That's not what I'm saying. Discuss away.

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All I know is that my pledge will be worth it if the game lives up to the hype that drew me in. If it fall's short of that, my pledge will drop dramatically. I think the game will still be fun, just not quite worth what I'm currently offering. Even bumping up the rewards would not change that equation (although I wound't complain if they tried, heh).

eEvERiW.jpg

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All I know is that my pledge will be worth it if the game lives up to the hype that drew me in. If it fall's short of that, my pledge will drop dramatically. I think the game will still be fun, just not quite worth what I'm currently offering. Even bumping up the rewards would not change that equation (although I wound't complain if they tried, heh).

Fair enough =P

 

 

I love the double edge sword here, if a Dev gives to much it is a P2W.  If they do not give enough, people QQ.

 

I love the interenet!

The 5-10% speed mount saddle thing given in the OP was just an example given by my guild mates. Personally I'm of the opinion that everything offered should be cosmetic in nature with no actual stats. There is no P2W in that, and they give all they please. The stuff for EK suggested later in the thread aren't pay to win. Decorations aren't pay to win, as they are cosmetic in nature.

 

They can give as much cosmetic incentives as they like without affecting the flow of gameplay. No P2W there.

They can also promise things now that won't be given on release, but rather on first patch. Plenty of games have done this and followed through. Not following through would cause imminent implosion, so it would keep them on track.

Edited by Tyroki
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OP makes many assumptions.  I wouldn't take his advice ArtCraft.

Officer in TRUST, a Casual Friendly Earth/Balance Faction Guild

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Godus

 

This amongst many other kickstarter 'successes' turned failures unfortunately have tainted the reputation of kickstarter in general. People are less willing to trust based on reputation these days. Again, why incentives are more important than ever. Godus may have been one of the most recent examples, but is one of the biggest coming from someone with a reputation.

 

 

Yet, reputation is still a big thing. If the people that do the kickstarter are people that have made(or helped maked) successful games in their lifetime, people will be a lot more willing to fund for that then, say, a game that a few people that have not had any true prior experience.

 

Also, thanks for not being like most people on the internet, who say their point is the best and that what you think is true sucks, but don't give any evidence.

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It's hard to add anything to the packs now as well as adding things that affects the game like increase horse speed by 15% isn't the right thing to do, that's pay to win.

 

I do understand that the smaller packs aren't as enticing to purchase as lets say $250+. It goes from an extreme of being average deals then once you get to $250 it's far over the top best deal ever lol.

 

I guess they could add more vip time to the lowers packs so then it isn't a jump from 1year vip to 6 years vip. They have room to play with there.

YannMLq.png

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Yet, reputation is still a big thing. If the people that do the kickstarter are people that have made(or helped maked) successful games in their lifetime, people will be a lot more willing to fund for that then, say, a game that a few people that have not had any true prior experience.

 

Also, thanks for not being like most people on the internet, who say their point is the best and that what you think is true sucks, but don't give any evidence.

 

 

I agree that reputation is still a big thing, but it isn't everything. The only person I know from their team, and only from his work, is Thomas Blair. His systems were a huge deal for Star Wars Galaxies, and one of the reasons why I was so hyped about this game from the get go. The second I saw he was behind those two systems... hoooo... *fans face* definitely a fan.

 

(He also makes an awesome Uncle Bob. Good gods that man fits that uniform and cigar. Give the man another cigar. He's earned many)

However. This is kickstarter we're talking about, and while almost 10k people have backed, there are likely quite a number of people still watching and waiting for it to get more interesting. That is why I'm hoping the devs are considering the warnings of this thread at least (we've had a couple of red names reading the topic now =D) But no one can deny that after the first few days, the projects momentum slowed down dramatically. Yes, kickstarter has a habit of the last 48 hours being a rush of money, but this is also due to incentives being added to projects making them more worthwhile.

 

As a side note, I learned long ago that not supplying evidence got my posts ripped apart regardless of any points made and no fun was to be hard. I love the devs vision for Crowfall, but that doesn't mean I can't have fun along the way, even if I really do care what happens to the game. I want the kickstarter to be BIG. I want the devs to really make it. The more money they have, the more chance of their vision being successfully realised. But people do need to realise that without incentives, they won't really be hitting the fence. Lots of chickens on that fence. Some are pretty fat. Good food and potential for a lot of delicious eggs. But right now, they're just not convincing those chickens to fall off to their side of that fence. On the other side of the fence is keeping their tasty eggs to themselves.

 

Edit: I also don't think my points are the best. Once the thread finally got rolling, people have posted some really good points. But I do really believe in my points, and hope they aren't brushed aside =)

 

It's hard to add anything to the packs now as well as adding things that affects the game like increase horse speed by 15% isn't the right thing to do, that's pay to win.

 

I do understand that the smaller packs aren't as enticing to purchase as lets say $250+. It goes from an extreme of being average deals then once you get to $250 it's far over the top best deal ever lol.

 

I guess they could add more vip time to the lowers packs so then it isn't a jump from 1year vip to 6 years vip. They have room to play with there.

"The 5-10% speed mount saddle thing given in the OP was just an example given by my guild mates. Personally I'm of the opinion that everything offered should be cosmetic in nature with no actual stats."

You may have missed me saying this, which is okay. I do agree with you. Stats should not be a thing, but it was a quick example given by guild mates as I was writing up and reading out my OP. I didn't particularly have much myself at the time.

 

That being said, one of my guildies has also suggested that horse speed rewards can be useful if restricted to the Eternal Kingdom, and not while you're at war once they add that ability.

 

Edit: Also you're right about the packs. I mean, holy moly that $250 pack. They really should up the previous pledges to keep on that 'wow, good deal' level.

Edited by Tyroki
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Just a post to say I've edited the OP with some of the thread suggestions. If I missed anything, do say. Also feel free to suggest more things. I also updated the Crowfall-esque Risk Battle Table idea to be even more interesting, if they're willing =D

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I would have.backed for 1000+ if I didn't have business related obligations already on my card. So for now 215+

 

I and many other donate/back this project because we believe in it. I don't give a rats A$$ about any pixels or incentives......I care about the vision and the people behind it. (J Todd, gordon, raph)

 

After playing MMOs, since meridian 59 then UO for 6+ years....SB from launch till close.....WoW...rift....guild wars 1 & 2....and more games that I care to list.....

This is the first game in almost a decade that has my interest....a lot of us thought dark fall would be the next big PVP game but that didn't work for a lot of players.....

 

Backing this game is more of a mission statement from decades of PvPers who want more .... And have been let down by a lot of the main streams offerings.

 

It's the same reason star citizen raised boats loads of money ......any company could make a space MMo....eve.'s been out there for years........it's because of Chris Roberts.....growing up it was names like his on the boxes of wing commander 1/2......privateer ...games that set the bar......origin studios ...man I miss those days....origin we create worlds.....then EA slowly ruined some of the best game franchises.....anyway ranting now......

 

Back this game because you believe not because you hope for the most pixel reward to get u in the door.

I turn dough into $$$ .....The Pizza King of QFT

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I would have.backed for 1000+ if I didn't have business related obligations already on my card. So for now 215+

 

I and many other donate/back this project because we believe in it. I don't give a rats A$$ about any pixels or incentives......I care about the vision and the people behind it. (J Todd, gordon, raph)

 

After playing MMOs, since meridian 59 then UO for 6+ years....SB from launch till close.....WoW...rift....guild wars 1 & 2....and more games that I care to list.....

This is the first game in almost a decade that has my interest....a lot of us thought dark fall would be the next big PVP game but that didn't work for a lot of players.....

 

Backing this game is more of a mission statement from decades of PvPers who want more .... And have been let down by a lot of the main streams offerings.

 

It's the same reason star citizen raised boats loads of money ......any company could make a space MMo....eve.'s been out there for years........it's because of Chris Roberts.....growing up it was names like his on the boxes of wing commander 1/2......privateer ...games that set the bar......origin studios ...man I miss those days....origin we create worlds.....then EA slowly ruined some of the best game franchises.....anyway ranting now......

 

Back this game because you believe not because you hope for the most pixel reward to get u in the door.

I have to agree with you Mendoza because I believe that's why the Devs are making this game. FFA pvp with loot is something I have been looking for and lately nothing has come close. I'm sick and tired really of WoW with its Arenas and battlegrounds and this Crowfall game just might fill the spot with what I have been looking for the last 10+ years. 

 

I personally like the campaigns idea because you have to go out and fight for resources to use to craft stuff, and it makes the game more interesting that way. I wouldn't have backed the kickstarter  with Amber Patron if I didn't really like all the ideas I have seen to date. Heck since the inception of Kickstarter this is the first project I have funded too.^^

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