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willwill

Progression? Camelot Unchained & Crowfall Comparison

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You can also win World Vs World Vs World  in Guild wars 2. Do you really think that progression is going to sustain players to keep playing? Has nobody thought this through?  I am not a developer, but i can tell you the mindset of the average pvp'er, and the one's who are backing this game is. "Kill, loot, kill loot,kill loot,kill loot, FK I LOST ALL MY STUFF, RAGE QUIT" yawn. I'm bored, when's the next game releasing?  

 

Name one FFA LOOT pvp server that has lasted more than 6 months or a year in the last 10 years?  Darkfall?  Please don't talk to me about free player run shards, i am talking about active mmorpgs.

 

Have you ever been on a FFA real mmorpg server? I played andred from the start, until the very last day when it was closed down, ok i lie. I quit like most people did when the population dropped so low, because Mark refused to merge the server with mordred until it was too late, i just told him the other day i am still disgruntled at him about it. It's still a memory i cannot let go of, nevermind warhammer's fail. But doesn't mean everything is going to fail. Should i have quit life when i was making 25k a year instead of the 5-10x that i make now?

 

Anyway, moot point but just because you've made mistakes previously, doesn't mean it will continue.

 

FFA pvp servers let alone FFA LOOT do not sustain themselves, so you think resetting them every 3 months is going to magically change this? If they don't add a progression system then they are seriously shattting the bed.

 

We all want ffa pvp, i am definitely not a RVR first type of guy...  But, as i've grown older, i've realized this type of pvp just won't last in mmorpgs.

 

That's exactly the point. They're not supposed to be sustainable, because as you've meticulously outlined, that model is unsustainable.

 

That's exactly why campaigns end, and have winners.

 

GW2's WVW has a pretty large and vocal community that's still playing it to this day. it's a poorly made socksty RvR implementation, but yeah, people are still playing it regularly. And all they get are ladder positions.

 

I've got years of Shadowbane and EVE under my belt. I played those games exactly as long as it took to fight one big war. Afterward they were boring.

 

The entire point of Crowfall is to put the game in a constant "release rush" in which you play out a war, win or lose, then, hey, new map. Not a reset of the same map, but a new one. Possibly a new game mechanic. Bonus: You don't have to reroll.

 

The idea is really simple: You play until you would normally find a new MMO, but you play this one again in stead because you're at 'release' all over again, but you don't have to skill up a new toon.

 

That's pretty compelling.

 

It's absolutely not a game built around long term acquisition of shiny pixels


PopeSigGIF.gif

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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So the point of the game is.....? Session based survival game? Then what is the difference compared to H1Z1, DayZ, Rust etc?

This isn't a survival game, nor is it session based. Basically, an MMORPG, meets grand campaign strategy, extended over weeks or months. You play, and stay in one campaign the whole time, not just for the night or weekend.

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It is also fine but what does "Risk vs Reward" mean in that case?

 

They've said if they can figure out EK vs EK or whatever system, that people could basically bet on winning. This of course would require some actual sportsmanship and not so much of the "hardcore" I PWNED U HARD! mentality. Wager, face off, collect/lose. Or could be internal within an EK. Two Lords having a disagreement, let the Monarch set PVP on for their lands an let them battle it out.

 

At this point, anything is possible. Just a matter of dev imagination, tech limitations, and funding. They seem pretty open to our ideas, but money talks.

 

Haven't been following H1Z1 lately, but the early idea of players voting or basically paying for a server type is smart. Instead of listening/ignoring the vocal minority on forums and what not, actually see if all those "I want this!" are willing to come together and support the idea beyond words.

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They've said if they can figure out EK vs EK or whatever system, that people could basically bet on winning. This of course would require some actual sportsmanship and not so much of the "hardcore" I PWNED U HARD! mentality. Wager, face off, collect/lose. Or could be internal within an EK. Two Lords having a disagreement, let the Monarch set PVP on for their lands an let them battle it out.

 

At this point, anything is possible. Just a matter of dev imagination, tech limitations, and funding. They seem pretty open to our ideas, but money talks.

 

Haven't been following H1Z1 lately, but the early idea of players voting or basically paying for a server type is smart. Instead of listening/ignoring the vocal minority on forums and what not, actually see if all those "I want this!" are willing to come together and support the idea beyond words.

Hehe yeah H1Z1

 

They decided to focus on battleroyale. All out deathmatches.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Camelot have no PvE content, so Crowfall goes to the second place of my ranking.

Of course there will be PvE in CU.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Camelot have no PvE content, so Crowfall goes to the second place of my ranking.

lol what PvE will Crowfall have? Some mobs that might drop crafting mats. Thats it. Besides in a PvP based game its rather silly to have PvE as a determining factor of quality or playability.

Edited by pang

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lol what PvE will Crowfall have? Some mobs that might drop crafting mats. Thats it. Besides in a PvP based game its rather silly to have PvE as a determining factor of quality or playability.

Exactly the same PvE as CU


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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You can also win World Vs World Vs World  in Guild wars 2. Do you really think that progression is going to sustain players to keep playing? Has nobody thought this through?  I am not a developer, but i can tell you the mindset of the average pvp'er, and the one's who are backing this game is. "Kill, loot, kill loot,kill loot,kill loot, FK I LOST ALL MY STUFF, RAGE QUIT" yawn. I'm bored, when's the next game releasing?  

 

Name one FFA LOOT pvp server that has lasted more than 6 months or a year in the last 10 years?  Darkfall?  Please don't talk to me about free player run shards, i am talking about active mmorpgs.

 

Have you ever been on a FFA real mmorpg server? I played andred from the start, until the very last day when it was closed down, ok i lie. I quit like most people did when the population dropped so low, because Mark refused to merge the server with mordred until it was too late, i just told him the other day i am still disgruntled at him about it. It's still a memory i cannot let go of, nevermind warhammer's fail. But doesn't mean everything is going to fail. Should i have quit life when i was making 25k a year instead of the 5-10x that i make now?

 

Anyway, moot point but just because you've made mistakes previously, doesn't mean it will continue.

 

FFA pvp servers let alone FFA LOOT do not sustain themselves, so you think resetting them every 3 months is going to magically change this? If they don't add a progression system then they are seriously shattting the bed.

 

We all want ffa pvp, i am definitely not a RVR first type of guy...  But, as i've grown older, i've realized this type of pvp just won't last in mmorpgs.

 

Video games are repetitive. However, devs have no control if players become bored after a day or five years. A lot of that falls on us.

 

You've called or questioned the "lobby" status of CF. Most "lobby" games have little to no progression beyond achievements or standing. Nothing really to "show" for their time doing the same thing over and over. Yet people overwhelmingly enjoy this design. CF will have character & account progression (EK and what not), so already a leg up on lobby games, while maintaining the same overall appeal.

 

I enjoyed DAoC/WAR and the eternal ring around the rosie design, but I did get bored of it due to there not only being nothing to show for my work (RR?) but the stagnation that eventually occurs in such designs. Not that lobby games can't suffer from the same issue, but usually there is a variety of versions to try so it isn't as much of an issue. I'm a big TF2/CS fan and there are tons of maps with all types of rules. Sure I can get bored of the games a whole, but not due to lack of others trying to keep it fresh and fun. Which seems to be pretty much what they plan to do with CF. This really sums up what I'm looking forward to... http://crowfall.com/#/faq/54e9503393fc8d634e4d690d

 

If your goal is to be Uncle Bob, then no, CF probably won't be the most satisfying game. But this is extremely obvious from everything they've said. Although this seems to be the underlying "what's the point" view from some. What's they point to anything, to have fun. Not every game/feature will be fun to everyone, just a fact. Those looking for some permanent domination game, need to look elsewhere. Not sure where though, doesn't seem like many companies are silly enough to make that mistake. CU looks like another ring around the rosie forever design (could be missing something), except now players have to build all the keeps and what not. Unless one realm or guild can really "win" at any point.

 

While I'm sure another creative company will come up with an idea, CF seems pretty innovative in the PVP market. Decent blend of a variety of features that could keep it going for a while. Even then, one could take a break and hop right back in without much issue. Good luck doing that on Andred or whatever similar designed game.

 

There is the question of funding and when will we see other rules besides FFA, but assuming they can hit at least 2mill before the KS ends and then whatever they can get from the site after, I doubt it will be an issue. Some of it is basic stuff that shouldn't require tons of man hours or funding. And the more variety the create, the more reason to play, which will continue the more features, more fans, more cash, more features.... they can build from the foundation. Where as I don't see a ton of potential growth for games like CU.

Edited by Allein

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Some people are acting like the reset mechanic is some new brilliant idea when it already exists in both GW2 and ESO.

 

At the end of the day the those games function just like any other world pvp game where territory changes hands on a continual daily basis. There is a score counter and eventually someone is declared the winner but not many people really care that much on the vast majority of servers.

 

Crowfall has the hunger and voxel stuff, but I think people are putting way to much value on the reset. It will be very hard to keep people's attention focused on winning a 3 month campaign, especially if they are on the losing side after a week or two. That is an eternity in today's gaming market and people lose interest in the competitive side if it becomes a 24/7 endeavor.

 

The main difference is that Crowfall has servers that are GvG which has more room for politics. However this usually just turns into a single alliance vastly outnumbering everyone else and winning. In a 3 sided conflict without same faction killing it is much harder for 1 side to dominate 24/7.

Edited by RolexSweep

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I agree with you. Instanced housing is the worst carebear thing ever, I can understand this feature in WoW but they dont call themselves "hardcore". 

 

Since you are running with the wrong definition for "instance", it's not too surprising that you also have the wrong definition for "hardcore".

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Would it be accurate to say, the games end goal progression is making your own private kingdom super cool? So essentially you play in campaigns to win, and by winning you can take that "booty" we'll say, and take it back to your home. So essentially you're taking materials from a short lived campaign to build your "land" or your home out. Right? Doesn't that sound a little weak to you? Or for lack of a better word, a little SIMS, Carebear like, considering one of the developers worked on the SIMS, i'm not surprised.

 

With your EK you can decide who comes and goes in your kingdom, so let's say someone is being a hooligan... You ban them, you win ?

 

Game over? What else? Where is the risk vs reward?    

 

As someone who is a backer of both Camelot Unchained (You can build structures/housing etc... that can be destroyed by the other 2 factions, there is no safe area, only your "faction" is safe. There is no world resets, the only protection seems to be that you can rebuild it with a plan after you have built it, be regaining the materials.But again it can be knocked down again. The players build the structures in the world and control the economy. 

 

So again, i am comparing the two, why is crowfall considered so hardcore? But yet not hardcore enough where you can lose your home? 

 

Am i missing something? 

This is my concern aswell. Carebear or no carebear, it just sounds dull. It's like, do I want to spend my resources within the campaign and then lose them forever once the campaign ends, or put them in storage so that I can't use them in the campaign itself, but instead lose most of it once the campaign is over and use what's left of it in the next campaign? It seems like whatever progress you make in one campaign only pays of in the next...

 

In my opinion it would be better if the end of the campaign was some cataclysmic event, but you get to keep everything on your person and in your bags and, if you have one, in your cart/caravan/whatever, if you make it through the portal that takes you to the eternal kingdoms. If you don't, the world dies, and you with it.

Edited by JWJSSIF

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Some people are acting like the reset mechanic is some new brilliant idea when it already exists in both GW2 and ESO.

 

At the end of the day the those games function just like any other world pvp game where territory changes hands on a continual daily basis. T

 

You have it backwards. The reset mechanic is not unique, every MMO in existence resets constantly.

 

The unique thing about Crowfall is the persistence. changes you make persist until the campaign ends, 1 month, 3 months, possibly 6 months or longer. You could lead your guild on the early "land rush" days, build an amazing castle, and then go on a month long vacation with your family in real life.  When you return to the campaign, your castle will still be there, provided your guild members properly defended it- that is persistence.

 

In GW2, nothing you do will effect the world for more than mere minutes, if even that. 

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Would it be accurate to say, the games end goal progression is making your own private kingdom super cool? So essentially you play in campaigns to win, and by winning you can take that "booty" we'll say, and take it back to your home. So essentially you're taking materials from a short lived campaign to build your "land" or your home out. Right? Doesn't that sound a little weak to you? Or for lack of a better word, a little SIMS, Carebear like, considering one of the developers worked on the SIMS, i'm not surprised.

 

With your EK you can decide who comes and goes in your kingdom, so let's say someone is being a hooligan... You ban them, you win ?

 

Game over? What else? Where is the risk vs reward?    

 

As someone who is a backer of both Camelot Unchained (You can build structures/housing etc... that can be destroyed by the other 2 factions, there is no safe area, only your "faction" is safe. There is no world resets, the only protection seems to be that you can rebuild it with a plan after you have built it, be regaining the materials.But again it can be knocked down again. The players build the structures in the world and control the economy. 

 

So again, i am comparing the two, why is crowfall considered so hardcore? But yet not hardcore enough where you can lose your home? 

 

Am i missing something? 

Following the forumfall tradition of not reading posts after the OP here's my reply to the OP.

I imagine that after a year or 2, EK's will eventually be able to compete in a game of thrones linked by portals. You should probably build with defense in mind. 


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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In general I wonder how progress is going to pan out and what choices I'll have to make during it. Will having better items "compete" with having more spells or being better at crafting? etc

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Video games are repetitive. However, devs have no control if players become bored after a day or five years. A lot of that falls on us.

 

You've called or questioned the "lobby" status of CF. Most "lobby" games have little to no progression beyond achievements or standing. Nothing really to "show" for their time doing the same thing over and over. Yet people overwhelmingly enjoy this design. CF will have character & account progression (EK and what not), so already a leg up on lobby games, while maintaining the same overall appeal.

 

I enjoyed DAoC/WAR and the eternal ring around the rosie design, but I did get bored of it due to there not only being nothing to show for my work (RR?) but the stagnation that eventually occurs in such designs. Not that lobby games can't suffer from the same issue, but usually there is a variety of versions to try so it isn't as much of an issue. I'm a big TF2/CS fan and there are tons of maps with all types of rules. Sure I can get bored of the games a whole, but not due to lack of others trying to keep it fresh and fun. Which seems to be pretty much what they plan to do with CF. This really sums up what I'm looking forward to... http://crowfall.com/#/faq/54e9503393fc8d634e4d690d

 

If your goal is to be Uncle Bob, then no, CF probably won't be the most satisfying game. But this is extremely obvious from everything they've said. Although this seems to be the underlying "what's the point" view from some. What's they point to anything, to have fun. Not every game/feature will be fun to everyone, just a fact. Those looking for some permanent domination game, need to look elsewhere. Not sure where though, doesn't seem like many companies are silly enough to make that mistake. CU looks like another ring around the rosie forever design (could be missing something), except now players have to build all the keeps and what not. Unless one realm or guild can really "win" at any point.

 

While I'm sure another creative company will come up with an idea, CF seems pretty innovative in the PVP market. Decent blend of a variety of features that could keep it going for a while. Even then, one could take a break and hop right back in without much issue. Good luck doing that on Andred or whatever similar designed game.

 

There is the question of funding and when will we see other rules besides FFA, but assuming they can hit at least 2mill before the KS ends and then whatever they can get from the site after, I doubt it will be an issue. Some of it is basic stuff that shouldn't require tons of man hours or funding. And the more variety the create, the more reason to play, which will continue the more features, more fans, more cash, more features.... they can build from the foundation. Where as I don't see a ton of potential growth for games like CU.

If crowfall reaches 2 million dollars on kickstarter. I'll give away my $425 tier .it's not pulling in 1.1 more million dollars, in fact a lot of the bigger backers i expect to pull out at the end.

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