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Camelot Unchained

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I guess it's actually pretty cool in a way because they can at least supplement each other and someone could play both for diff reasons and to get different fixes. 

 

Yes, but I think the MMORPG itch is going to be more difficult to scratch.  CF is leaning toward the same type of game that Overwatch and EC are going to be, while retaining significantly more MMORPG elements than OW and a bit more than EC.  Kind of like: (MMORPG) CU--CF--EC--OW (MOBA/Shooter).  I think it is still possible that CU will be vaporware, or at least launch missing a whole lot of what was promised.  I am very concerned that EQNext will be vaporware.   That leaves us sadly short on MMORPG options, really.  Black Desert is happening, but I don't think that is game I'll like in the long term.  Ugh...  :unsure:       


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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I guess it's actually pretty cool in a way because they can at least supplement each other and someone could play both for diff reasons and to get different fixes. 

 

I agree with you on this, I see CU and CF similar enough to please to the same audience, but with so many design differences to be considered complementary rather than competitors. Both are heavily PvP oriented and focus on player-driven economy and content, allowing players to have a big impact on the environment and story, leaning more toward sandbox than theme park.

 

But the differences are also significant : CF is a mix between a strategy game and a MMO, featuring elements seen in survival (hunger, decay, food), sci-fi (skill progression, vessels) and action games (combo, free aim).

 

CU on the other hand is an old school MMORPG that innovates in many field but still seems to stick to the original design of DAoC RvR. I think it will use an hybrid system for aiming with tab target, free aim and other methods. Hopefully the combat will feel fluid and features more free aim options than what is available currently.

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I agree with you on this, I see CU and CF similar enough to please to the same audience, but with so many design differences to be considered complementary rather than competitors. Both are heavily PvP oriented and focus on player-driven economy and content, allowing players to have a big impact on the environment and story, leaning more toward sandbox than theme park.

 

But the differences are also significant : CF is a mix between a strategy game and a MMO, featuring elements seen in survival (hunger, decay, food), sci-fi (skill progression, vessels) and action games (combo, free aim).

 

CU on the other hand is an old school MMORPG that innovates in many field but still seems to stick to the original design of DAoC RvR. I think it will use an hybrid system for aiming with tab target, free aim and other methods. Hopefully the combat will feel fluid and features more free aim options than what is available currently.

Despite my repeated criticisms about tab target... the fact that it allows them to have a system that truly supports hundreds and/or thousands of players in areas at once is going to be awesome... Even if it is tab-target seeing that many people going after each other would be quite the experience. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Indeed, and some people will only want to play tab targeting games. It's not intrinsically a bad aiming system, it's just that it leads to a particular type of combat that some players feel outdated due to other methods replacing it in more action oriented MMO.

 

What I fear if they choose to stick with tab targeting is that it may reduce the appeal of this game for the non-DAoC audience.

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Some aspects I like about CU, but like Regulus is CU being vaporware or worse be another release like Warhammer.   Those that don't remember that game/release it was one of the worst ever.  Missing classes, promised the sky but things got whittled away for 'later' more and more.  Some may say it was EA's fault but if you look at SWTOR, another EA MMO title, it didn't even have close the amount of issues Warhammer did.   

 

IF I did go play CU, I'd def. choose Viking faction because the lore and a lot of the models appeal to me.

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Some aspects I like about CU, but like Regulus is CU being vaporware or worse be another release like Warhammer.   Those that don't remember that game/release it was one of the worst ever.  Missing classes, promised the sky but things got whittled away for 'later' more and more.  Some may say it was EA's fault but if you look at SWTOR, another EA MMO title, it didn't even have close the amount of issues Warhammer did.   

 

IF I did go play CU, I'd def. choose Viking faction because the lore and a lot of the models appeal to me.

I dont think CU will be vaporware because I remember MJ back in early mythic entertainment... even before DAoC.... I think he just happens to be another guy that tried to make it in a post-wow world and got chewed up by the corporate machine... but now he is back at the indie level... things should be gucci...


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I dont think CU will be vaporware because I remember MJ back in early mythic entertainment... even before DAoC.... I think he just happens to be another guy that tried to make it in a post-wow world and got chewed up by the corporate machine... but now he is back at the indie level... things should be gucci...

I am hoping too but with all the reports of drama at CSE makes you wonder.   I haven't followed CU much but I do know if you have high turnover it can really screw up a project.

 

update:  Just took a few hours to go over the CU updates and just 'damn'. Will say this,  Viking Winter's Shadow looks pretty sweet.   Looked at some of the gameplay and was kind of hard to watch as far as quality, but not bad.   Def. gonna keep sharper eye out on it now.

Edited by Coydog

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I think they've done a really great job with the art for the classes.

 

              sdQDJ6Y.gif

The artwork is awesome...

 

It's the actual game that feels "Meh" to me. It looks very slow and sluggish as far as gameplay goes, but that is from 20,000 feet from someone who knows little about the game. 

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The artwork is awesome...

 

It's the actual game that feels "Meh" to me. It looks very slow and sluggish as far as gameplay goes, but that is from 20,000 feet from someone who knows little about the game. 

 

I've read somewhere that most of what we've seen, but the environment objects like trees, rocks, plants, etc., are placeholders.

 

Some of the real character models 1 2 3, animations, spells and FX I think are supposed to be added for Beta (first quarter 2016).

Edited by courant101

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I think they've done a really great job with the art for the classes.

 

              sdQDJ6Y.gif

 

It is a matter of taste, I know, but I am not overly fond of it.  It seems a bit too GW2 to me, IMHO. 


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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I've read somewhere that most of what we've seen, but the environment objects like trees, rocks, plants, etc., are placeholders.

 

Some of the real character models 1 2 3, animations, spells and FX I think are supposed to be added for Beta (first quarter 2016).

I would be curious to see how different it turns out from what we have seen in Alpha.

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It is a matter of taste, I know, but I am not overly fond of it.  It seems a bit too GW2 to me, IMHO. 

 

I agree that the way they presented the classes has a lot of resemblance with GW2.

 

mqdefault.jpg

 

 

I enjoy this kind of expressive drawings with the postures and colors, they convey a lot of information in just one image.

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I would be curious to see how different it turns out from what we have seen in Alpha.

 

Yea me too. It will probably not be comparable to recent mmorpg like Black Desert as of the graphics but there will be noticeable improvements from what we've seen in the Alpha video back in March.

 

If they can make the game beautiful enough to attract the newer generation of mmo players, it might have everything to please the PvP-mmo fans.

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It is a matter of taste, I know, but I am not overly fond of it.  It seems a bit too GW2 to me, IMHO. 

 

That's probably why most people like it.


Wearily do I sleep eternity away.

Without fear or haste, on bedding made of solitude and silence.

 

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As far as animations, I think they are first working on fine tuning engine to be able to handle large numbers in the few hundred people vs. few hundred. 

Yeah that's right, it's just (IMO) they probably should avoid showing that to the general public who can only look at the shinies.

 

After seeing 500 odd bots in the same area for myself I'm pretty confident in their engine, once they put in some non-poorly made socksty animations it'll be a great show for the public. Gotta see how the engine and everything is going to scale with more/higher res models, skills and animations.

 

That's actually the main thing that concerns me about crowfall is theirs has been done the other way, use an existing engine and if that's going to support like 100 people on screen smoothly. So far it hasn't been great on that front but there is plenty of time to improve.


Synapse - SEA/Oceanic Hardcore PvP/RvR
www.synapse-guild.com

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Despite my repeated criticisms about tab target... the fact that it allows them to have a system that truly supports hundreds and/or thousands of players in areas at once is going to be awesome... Even if it is tab-target seeing that many people going after each other would be quite the experience. 

I don't mind tab targeting when dual targeting is involved or there are a heap of players on screen or the game is running at low fps. 

 

Out of curiosity, have there been any free targeting MMOs that have a dual target system?


Synapse - SEA/Oceanic Hardcore PvP/RvR
www.synapse-guild.com

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I am a kickstarter backer of both.  Warrior Forever at CU and just upgraded to Sapphire here at CF.  For me, both have advantages and disadvantages.

 

Siege / conquer building destruction system:

Crowfall addresses the issues that occurred in Shadowbane when players spend 2-3 months building up their territory/castle and then it gets wiped out in a day or two.  It causes people to quit. Crowfall's adoption of an EVE system where it is risk v reward combined with campaigns and the destruction safe area of EK's is a legitimate method to fix this issue. 

 

Camelot Unchained hasn't entirely figured this part out yet or if they have they haven't released much info.  In CU you can build in territory your faction controls but that is fluid.  Buildings are destructible so how will they slow down the loss in time investment?  They are using land masses that are like islands and that move closer together the longer the faction controls them.  Not sure how this RvR is going to work out.

 

Targeting system:

Yes, Crowfall uses aim and I've played both.  In Darkfall they use aim I had a tough time adapting in intense (i.e. pvp) situations.  So I do prefer the tab targeting of CU here.  I agree it is about skill here with aim.  If players don't have tabs and targeting there are some players who will have to adapt or move on. 

 

Crafting:

I'm not huge on crafting but I do enjoy it, especially when there is downtime.  In Camelot there is a crafting class.  (Non-crafters in CU can only repair and do some low level crafting like arrows.)  So while some who craft and that's all they will do will love this - hybrid players like me don't want it.  I want only one character and switching characters just so I can craft is a pain.  If CF's crafting is like UO or Darkfall I will be just fine with it. 

 

Level Grinding:

Mark Jacobs at Camelot loves grinds.  He's said that the grind will be harder than DAoC and feels that MMO's have been too easy to level.  While I'm sure it isn't to the level of Korean MMO grinds I thought DAoC was a bit much.  I love the passive skill system of EVE and Crowfall.  Combined with skill progression of UO I think Crowfall nails it. 

 

Subscription Model:

Yes, Camelot has a monthly subscription but if you back the game for $250 you will get it free forever.  At Crowfall if you spend $250 you get 1 year with VIP.  Let's be honest, VIP is the monthly sub and if you're serious about the game you will want VIP.  Even if you back Crowfall for $10,000 you will only get 6 years of VIP.  lol.  Well, at least if you're backing for $10,000 you probably don't care about spending money on VIP. 

 

The Free to Play model is probably best for this niche pvp market since you want to encourage as many people as possible to populate the servers and try it out.  Speaking of servers...

 

Servers:

Camelot will have more than one server and you will need to choose one like traditional MMO's.  Everyone cannot play together and there will be the hassle of trying to coordinate servers to play with allies, guildmates and other friends in other guilds.  Crowfall avoids this problem with EK's and campaigns.  In CF you can play with whoever you want. 

 

Development Cycle:

While I was patiently waiting for Shadowbane for years DAoC popped up and was an instant hit.  Mythic headed by Mark had a polished beta and release.  DAoC had one of the most successful launches and polished games at release that I've ever played.  And DAoC came out of nowhere.  Shadowbane had a long development cycle and people were wondering if it was going to be vaporware.  When SB did release it had so many bugs it was virtually unplayable.  It is one of the reasons why I had to take a break after the first month.  The SB.exe errors were unbearable. 

 

Having said all that Crowfall is using a ready made engine while Camelot is making theirs from the ground up.  It will be a race to see who releases first and in what shape.  I get update emails from both CF and CU on the same day and sometimes within hours of each other.  It is awesome to see two Kickstarter Indie PvP games in development and I'm excited to see what happens. 

 

Characters:

I like the traditional characters and classes in Crowfall.  Obviously a heavy influence from Shadowbane.  What I don't like are the cartoony looks of the characters.  Some like this but I don't.  Reminds me too much of WoW.  So I think graphical representations of characters and world environment Camelot comes out ahead here.  Even if Camelot's characters are a bit odd looking they don't have that cartoony feel and look.  I have a feeling that one of the reasons why Crowfall had to take this route is the engine they are using. 

 

Communication with player base:

This is a tie.  Both CU and CF are extremely responsive to their backer base and community and I LOVE it.  Great job and kudos to both development teams for fostering the excellent communication. 

 

A lot of advantages and disadvantages for me and I can't tell which one will come out on top but right now Crowfall is more appealing to me.  My number one gripe with Crowfall is not having a reasonable price point backer model for VIP for life.  Both games have a large chunk of my money just for trying to build the game I've been patiently waiting for since 2000 after playing Ultima Online and the whole Felucca split imploded.  After 15 years its about damn time for someone to get it right and I think both are on the right track. 

Edited by preston

FpOqn82.jpg

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