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Camelot Unchained

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I was recently trying to explain to an inexperienced mmorpg player that betas are not always feature complete at the start.  He tried to argue, but I tried to get him to listen to reason about MMORPG development.  It doesn't seem like CU will be all the way feature complete at start of beta either but we will see.

I really feel like CU is taking a very intelligent path through their development.  Yes they had delays, but they did it for the right reasons and the game will prosper for it.  CF had a similar situation with their combat before.

I get this eerie feeling that history may repeat itself.  DAoC launched and was a huge success.  SB was rushed out and was a buggy nearly unplayable if not unplayable mess.  CF won't release as bad as SB, but with the soft launch concept things are bound to be in a fairly rough state at launch.  I also feel like CF might have a time element now and things are starting to feel a little rushed, hopefully I am wrong on this. 

I hope both games launch well, but honestly if things go the way they are currently heading CU may prove to be the more successful game.  It's built for big battles and good performance for those battles, and the things that made CF different, specifically the more hardcore campaign elements, are slowly getting softened by people complaining about things being too hard during testing. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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43 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

I was recently trying to explain to an inexperienced mmorpg player that betas are not always feature complete at the start.  He tried to argue, but I tried to get him to listen to reason about MMORPG development.  It doesn't seem like CU will be all the way feature complete at start of beta either but we will see.

I really feel like CU is taking a very intelligent path through their development.  Yes they had delays, but they did it for the right reasons and the game will prosper for it.  CF had a similar situation with their combat before.

I get this eerie feeling that history may repeat itself.  DAoC launched and was a huge success.  SB was rushed out and was a buggy nearly unplayable if not unplayable mess.  CF won't release as bad as SB, but with the soft launch concept things are bound to be in a fairly rough state at launch.  I also feel like CF might have a time element now and things are starting to feel a little rushed, hopefully I am wrong on this. 

I hope both games launch well, but honestly if things go the way they are currently heading CU may prove to be the more successful game.  It's built for big battles and good performance for those battles, and the things that made CF different, specifically the more hardcore campaign elements, are slowly getting softened by people complaining about things being too hard during testing. 

I feel like you are arguing opposite points in different (and sometimes the same) threads. Do you understand that 'soft launch' and 'MVP' don't necessarily mean buggy or poor quality?

Sometimes I really struggle with knowing whether this is trolling, or you are actually trying to contribute. If you're trolling, you're doing a good job. If you aren't.. please try harder? You literally make some of the same points here that you refuted in the other thread. 

Edited by Orleans

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1 hour ago, Orleans said:

I feel like you are arguing opposite points in different (and sometimes the same) threads. Do you understand that 'soft launch' and 'MVP' don't necessarily mean buggy or poor quality?

Sometimes I really struggle with knowing whether this is trolling, or you are actually trying to contribute. If you're trolling, you're doing a good job. If you aren't.. please try harder? You literally make some of the same points here that you refuted in the other thread. 

I don't really think you know what you are talking about, nor do I think you understand what I am saying. 

Do you understand that games that release prematurely no matter what you label it as can often be buggy and unpolished and fail?  I hope CF succeeds and we can put faith in ACE, but those of us with a lot of experience testing mmorpgs can pretty much tell what issues a game will struggle with.  ACE and CSE both have relatively small teams compared to big budget studios.  CSE seems to be building a game that is ready for MMORPGs from the ground up.  CF is unproven in the MMO area, it struggles with large groups of players and performance has never been a selling point so far. 

Anyway if I was a betting man, right now I would say CU looks to have a much safer future than CF.  That would be history repeating itself similar to how DAoC turned out compared to SB. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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16 hours ago, Tinnis said:

The wheels are turning....first staggered release of beta 1 guiding principal document....(released in chapter stages over next weeks)

http://camelotunchained.com/v3/beta-1/

I wonder if CU will beat CF to beta phase? :P

backers can log into the forum to see most of the names of upcoming sections.

Initially I thought their beta 1 would just be a slightly more advanced version of Big World, but looking at these documents it seems like it might be much further along than that. It's exciting. I hope both CU and CF can deliver and be a big success. CU seems to have insane solid performance at this stage though, very impressive. Wish they had gone with action combat but ah well.. 


 

 

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What y'all think about Camelot Unchained's Social systems details and how that might compare to what you want guilds etc to be in Crowfall?

https://www.reddit.com/r/CamelotUnchained/comments/71ub59/beta_1_document_groups/

Also because it is not explicitly mentioned in this document:

CU will feature in game discord integration for both text and voice [and accessible outside of client too]

http://camelotunchained.com/v3/a-little-bit-of-discord/

Quote

“I am proud to announce that we have partnered with Discord to make use of their recently announced, yesterday in fact, GameBridge SDK. GameBridge will allow us to bring the full suite of Discord services integrated directly into Camelot Unchained. Ok, sounds neat, but what does this actually mean? GameBridge will power our in-game chat services and provide built-in in-game voice as well! I know it’s been a question asked by many backers if CU will have voice chat; the answer to that is Yes.

Aside from just having in-game chat and voice, there are other additional benefits from using Discord’s GameBridge SDK. Guild chat, party chat, and even Realm chat can be made available from outside the game using the Discord app. At the time of this writing, Discord has applications for the web, Windows, Mac, Android, and iOS, with a Linux app coming soon, so you’ll never have to worry about missing out on what’s going on in guild chat.”

 

Edited by Tinnis

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I don't ever see Caldera (or any other guilds) use this Discord integration. Text maybe, voice never. Guilds will use their own implementations anyway. Waste of resources to implement it imo.

If people are stubborn and implement it anyway, make it so it is turned off by default or at least give me a very obvious option to turn it off completely. I do not want to hear any kiddies screaming in my ears. Not even for a second. So muting players is not an option here. It is already to late by then.


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2 minutes ago, barab said:

proximity chat in a mmorpg would kill me

CU prevents any and all communication between realms (e.g. the people you will be PvP-ing against)

And thankfully within your own realm voice will be for groups/guilds rather than running around screaming/streaming music on people :)

Edited by Tinnis

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Details of beta 1's The Dragon Circle is an interesting approach to both:

- engaging the testers (focused activities and events and even cosmetic etc rewards for backer test participation over time)

- yet also preventing burn out / better herding player activity periods

(while the safe and contested islands...think ek/main cw map...will be up more frequently the 'dragon circle challenges'...think abit like CF's hunger dome/siege perilous matches etc will be available less often at more scheduled times and will be traveled to via the in game island system)

examples:

 
Quote

Rewards:

The rewards for helping us during the Beta process will vary from temporary cosmetic items to permanent items, tier upgrades, and even cash rewards. As always, no items that Backers can earn during the Beta process will grant any advantage in the game, and will not be part of any cash shop for Camelot Unchained at launch or afterward. These rewards are one of the ways we will thank our Backers for helping us get Camelot Unchained ready for launch.

Some examples of these “Dragon Challenges” are:

Other possible Challenges for the Dragon Circle include:

Saturday Night Sieges™ – These should be the first Challenges that we implement. They will center around an attack on a fort. We can start this game even without having building destruction turned on, and add that as the testing regime progresses. More information about SNS can be found in the section below.

BONUS: Caravan Conflict – In this game, a caravan is attempting to reach a fort. This is a two-sided match, with one Realm defending the caravan and the other attacking it.

BONUS: POP the PoP – A three-sided conflict, where each side is looking to take control of a Place of Power and hold it for a certain amount of time.

Castle Smash! – Three castles, lots of siege weapons, and not much else: winner takes all.

BONUS: This mine is mine! – Realm-based Thunderdome with mines. In other words, “Three Realms enter, one Realm leaves!” Players start within the mine, and only one Realm can exit victorious.

BONUS: Hide and Go Slay! - This map is designed for the deeper, darker forests. Players start scattered around the DDF in a Last Realm Standing match.

BONUS: Free for all! – Yep, you guessed it, an FFA-style Challenge.

The Challenges listed above are only some of the ideas we have for the Dragon Circle, and are on the larger scale of such things. Other Challenges will be smaller and more focused on things like testing of specific groups and situations. This way, we can set up tests for things like “an 8-person group made up of these classes vs. another 8-person group made up of other classes,” as well as other Challenges. This will be a huge win for us, as we are designing a Rock, Paper, and Scissor game with non-mirrored classes. Having a system like this one in place will be an invaluable addition to the metrics system we will use in helping to focus on class balance before launch.

Edited by Tinnis

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Think CU has tons of potential and I think it will realize the majority of it, that being said, it's delayed beta for a long time (not a bad thing, they are trying to get it right instead of getting it fast) and it's hard to fully believe in the product until we see more footage and how their ideas manifest into the game itself. 

Anyone can create a game that sounds good on paper, can they actually implement those ideas in a fun way, that's the bigger question.

I don't doubt CU will be successful relative to their modest goals, but maybe it will be so much more.  


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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On 1/20/2018 at 6:48 AM, VIKINGNAIL said:

Think CU has tons of potential and I think it will realize the majority of it, that being said, it's delayed beta for a long time (not a bad thing, they are trying to get it right instead of getting it fast) and it's hard to fully believe in the product until we see more footage and how their ideas manifest into the game itself. 

Anyone can create a game that sounds good on paper, can they actually implement those ideas in a fun way, that's the bigger question.

I don't doubt CU will be successful relative to their modest goals, but maybe it will be so much more.  

I agree. I believe Mark Jacob and Andrew Megg will see this through to a good end, even if takes 7 years.

 

Have any of you guys played it at all in any of the tests?  

I've had access and tried it a bit. All I can say is i'm really hoping that the upcoming Dragon Circle and beta are more game, less technical demo.

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15 hours ago, Santovenia said:

Have any of you guys played it at all in any of the tests?  

I've had access and tried it a bit. All I can say is i'm really hoping that the upcoming Dragon Circle and beta are more game, less technical demo.

Its intentionally not felt like a game during alpha really.

Thats exactly the plan! :P

as my post above from the beta 1 doc examples:

Quote

Some examples of these “Dragon Challenges” are:

Other possible Challenges for the Dragon Circle include:

Saturday Night Sieges™ – These should be the first Challenges that we implement. They will center around an attack on a fort. We can start this game even without having building destruction turned on, and add that as the testing regime progresses. More information about SNS can be found in the section below.

BONUS: Caravan Conflict – In this game, a caravan is attempting to reach a fort. This is a two-sided match, with one Realm defending the caravan and the other attacking it.

BONUS: POP the PoP – A three-sided conflict, where each side is looking to take control of a Place of Power and hold it for a certain amount of time.

Castle Smash! – Three castles, lots of siege weapons, and not much else: winner takes all.

BONUS: This mine is mine! – Realm-based Thunderdome with mines. In other words, “Three Realms enter, one Realm leaves!” Players start within the mine, and only one Realm can exit victorious.

BONUS: Hide and Go Slay! - This map is designed for the deeper, darker forests. Players start scattered around the DDF in a Last Realm Standing match.

BONUS: Free for all! – Yep, you guessed it, an FFA-style Challenge.

The Challenges listed above are only some of the ideas we have for the Dragon Circle, and are on the larger scale of such things. Other Challenges will be smaller and more focused on things like testing of specific groups and situations. This way, we can set up tests for things like “an 8-person group made up of these classes vs. another 8-person group made up of other classes,” as well as other Challenges. This will be a huge win for us, as we are designing a Rock, Paper, and Scissor game with non-mirrored classes. Having a system like this one in place will be an invaluable addition to the metrics system we will use in helping to focus on class balance before launch.

 

Edited by Tinnis

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lol mark jacobs is a loon but I admire his intent to make a fun brawler. I'll be skipping this game because I don't think he's got what it takes to shake up the PvP community in this era. I'm not a fan of the cube system which looks like minecraft. No thanks I'm not a blocks builder. I will say the video caught my attention however when I saw people shooting nukes at targets over like 100m away. Not sure I know whats going on right there as I know its tab target and some of the targets were missing while others were absolutely precise and did connect. Anyway I'd try it for free if we could get a sampler.

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