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checkyotrack

The Unfortunate Truth: Crowfall Will Not Fill Your Shadowbane Void

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I don't have to explain fellow SBer, that the possibility of other guys showing up on your doorstep with big ole mean rock, then tearing down your stuff, the entire thing down was what made SB great. Now imagine if all cities were automatically starting safe zones, and you could only fight over mines. Would it be the same game?

 

Sorry, but I disagree. The total and utter destruction is what drove much of the player-base away. Back then I was a student and had time on my hands, I totally understood when people got disgruntled when they lost months worth of work. Now I have a job and far less free time, I can only pity them.

 

EK's are there to ensure there is the feeling of permanence, something to return to after a hard campaign of being slaughtered. 

 

The problem I think right now isn't that they exist, but that they don't matter one bit. What incentive is there to actually build them up?

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i'm of mixed feelings...

 

i do so adore a good Bane, with everything on the line...nothing ever has been quite like it

 

but i do understand that it can be a turn off for many Players who get discouraged rather than rebuild and get better...

 

however, from what i'm understanding so far...as much as i'd like it otherwise...the EKs are essentially personal instances, which can be expanded, built upon and visited...the Owner setting the variable Rules for his Kingdom...

 

it's everywhere else that has all the Fighting, under various rule systems and for variable lengths of time for said "win conditions"

 

now, the SBer in me screams in horror like a 9 year old girl at the idea of artificial "win conditions" and not being able to burn someone's House down...but i'm willing to wait and see what they DO implement....and is it Fun

 

my hopes for a true SB2 are dashed, gone by the wayside from what's been shown us.....

 

my Hope that Crowfall will be a Fun game and have a lot of things/features/systems that i find enjoyable and makes a good excuse for logging into ventrilo and causing mayhem is still going....i'm still not only *here* but giving my time as a Mod...

 

that sez just about everything i can say when it comes to my thoughts about CF so far....Time will tell me moar....until then....

 

http://youtu.be/V4jG3QJKYR0


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let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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I think if they ever did a SB2 and they wanted it to have more than 500 players, they would've made some changes to siegeing that seemed closer to the EK than it would have been closer to Shadowbane's current/old system. They even implemented Sea Dog's Rest so you could go to a safehold when your city burned down.

 

The best thing about Shadowbane -- You could burn down their city.

The worst thing about Shadowbane -- They could burn down your city.

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The best thing about Shadowbane -- You could burn down their city.

The worst thing about Shadowbane -- They could burn down your city.

 

Despite what I just said. This.

 

I doubt that I could do it again though, the time drain is why I stopped playing Eve.. and that had insurance! Shadowbane's losses were a million times worse, and I never actually watched my own city burn.

Edited by M0rdred

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i disagree about it being the worst thing...

 

by 2006 it was pretty easy to put up another Tree, one way or another

 

i think a lot of the original crowd coming into the Game had no real clue, then they got roflstomped by beta Guilds that knew the score and had cities built and ranking while they were still trying to find out where to level after hitting r4

 

originally the plan was to simply use a new Map for launch, which would have gone a long way to solving the problem, imo (i could be mistaken here, but it's what i have heard from reliable sources)...

 

but there still would have been the sb.exe problems, which is why some big guilds that would really have enjoyed/done well in SB left...like Combine on Treachery and so on....

 

could it be better adjusted...sure...it wasn't perfect, but Banes are still probably my favorite Game "thing" ever....nothing else even comes close for me


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let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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I've watched a city burn that I farmed at least 20% of. Scraped by myself for the seed and got one of the last spots at server up. Rank 7 forges, R7 vendors, trip walls, the whole thing. Then watched CN burn it all.

 

Definitely an emotional disconnect when you're burning someone else's city. Depending on how much you hate them, you might even feel bad for them. But not like you're going to log off and do something else. You'll see it through to the end. Unless you really hated them, you're not going to be super elated when their ToL goes down. The better the fights, the harder the struggle, the sweeter the victory. But zerging someone and burning down their ToL isn't as satisfactory. Unless you hate them.

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i disagree about it being the worst thing...

 

by 2006 it was pretty easy to put up another Tree, one way or another

 

i think a lot of the original crowd coming into the Game had no real clue, then they got roflstomped by beta Guilds that knew the score and had cities built and ranking while they were still trying to find out where to level after hitting r4

 

originally the plan was to simply use a new Map for launch, which would have gone a long way to solving the problem, imo (i could be mistaken here, but it's what i have heard from reliable sources)...

 

but there still would have been the sb.exe problems, which is why some big guilds that would really have enjoyed/done well in SB left...like Combine on Treachery and so on....

 

could it be better adjusted...sure...it wasn't perfect, but Banes are still probably my favorite Game "thing" ever....nothing else even comes close for me

 

Well, I'm more referring to the "worst thing" as it comes to a game feature. Sb.exe wasn't an intended game feature. There are a ton of things that sucked about Shadowbane, but losing a city was the worst thing that could happen to you, gameplay-wise. That's why I'm not losing my mind about the EK. Had I developed a game, I would've been labeled the carebear for putting something similar in place.

 

Plant another tree? When? Even on the emus, all the spots are taken. You played on Mourning? You sure as hell couldn't have found a spot on that server. I could see how losing a tree wouldn't have been a big deal on Mourning with all that duped gold.

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Well we in UDL ...neeeeever lost a city! :rolleyes:

 

burned down a few

stole a few

Ninja'd a few.....server up....oops someone didn't pay maintenance!!...zooooom!!

was given a few

 

:P


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

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i disagree about it being the worst thing...

 

by 2006 it was pretty easy to put up another Tree, one way or another

 

i think a lot of the original crowd coming into the Game had no real clue, then they got roflstomped by beta Guilds that knew the score and had cities built and ranking while they were still trying to find out where to level after hitting r4

 

originally the plan was to simply use a new Map for launch, which would have gone a long way to solving the problem, imo (i could be mistaken here, but it's what i have heard from reliable sources)...

 

but there still would have been the sb.exe problems, which is why some big guilds that would really have enjoyed/done well in SB left...like Combine on Treachery and so on....

 

could it be better adjusted...sure...it wasn't perfect, but Banes are still probably my favorite Game "thing" ever....nothing else even comes close for me

 

By 2006 the population was already dwindling.  Then came the CN zerg.


IC/Founding Member - Team X Gaming

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On the plus side it looks like there will be plenty of carebears and RPers to grief in the early stages.

 

I wouldn't be so sure.  Crowfall is being marketed as a PVP game.  Chances are high the wolves will encounter more fellow wolves than sheep.  

 

It is also unclear yet whether Crowfall will attract very many RPers.  A lot depends on what the EKs turn out to be.  People will want fully fleshed out virtual sandboxes, not instanced housing. 

 

Bear in mind also that although they are a minority, there are RP/PVP guilds.  So some of those carebears will have teeth!

Edited by cemya

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Bear in mind also that although they are a minority, there are RP/PVP guilds.  So some of those carebears will have teeth!

Gurth Gothrim Avari!

 

 

I remember those early bugs, and they did drive a lot of people away.  The very first bane I ever attended (I can't even remember the server name, but I was with Thurin's Hammers and a total carebear) was a thousand people on each side and it brought the entire server down.  But I also remember that every MMO was a crashy disaster until... the first one I can remember that launched smoothly was Lord of the Rings Online.  Even fabled WoW was a mess.

 

Still, the game was healthy in the beginning.  On my home server, there was a city called Tradewinds.  It was open to anyone, with shops and trainers that everyone on the server used.  PKs would steal or attack someone and others would anti-PK (my very first PvP experience was doing exactly that).  Naturally, Tradewinds was secretly owned by one of the big guilds (on the other side of the server war from me, actually), but it was also Shadowbane at its healthiest.

 

Play to Crush is what killed that.  For all that it was amazing, that phrase and the mentality behind it from the players and Wolfpack put a shiv in Shadowbane's back and left it to die.  It's why servers merged.  It's why CN was a huge zerg, instead of just another big guild.  Because people hate to lose things, it's basic human nature.  And if you let someone build a city (or in the beginning, even just plant a building), start a guild and put their mark on the world... and then let someone else burn that to the ground, people start wondering why they're playing this game.

 

And then you get the grindstone.  The less hardcore players leave.  This makes the playerbase more hardcore, which pushes out a new group that isn't hardcore enough to stick with it.  Again and again.  Thieves stop stealing, everyone kills everyone on sight.  Nobody takes in the new players because everyone is AFK leveling with a Druid stuck behind a rock or a Warlock hovering over Ettins.  R2's become fair game, because they're leveling to be the next spec group.  And now you have to partially disable /who because low population numbers become self-fulfilling.

 

I loved Shadowbane, I gave it years of my life and it was very, very good to me, but it was its own worst enemy.  Wolves starve when all the sheep are dead and it's down to five grizzled, vicious alphas sizing each other up as the next meal.

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It is also unclear yet whether Crowfall will attract very many RPers.  A lot depends on what the EKs turn out to be.  People will want fully fleshed out virtual sandboxes, not instanced housing. 

 

Bear in mind also that although they are a minority, there are RP/PVP guilds.  So some of those carebears will have teeth!

RPer here, most roleplayers who sit around in their own little corner of the game emoting at each other are missing the point of both the game and the roleplay. If there's not some kind of gameplay involved, you might as well take your emoting over to a forum.

 

I think some slant-eyed knife-ear said it best; "Do you like screaming battlecrys in-character?"

Edited by Psyentific

Hardcore gamer & tabletop enthusiast. Enjoys roleplaying, pretending to be stupid, and one-sided fun.

Goodposting 101: How to Keep the Forums Clean

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Getting your city burned down wasn't really the problem, the problem was the zero chance at rebuilding.  When your city fell you might as well have flashed a game over screen and rolled credits for most players because there really was no recourse.  You lost and you got progressively weaker, and your enemy was under no circumstance going to give you a chance at become a threat once again.  That's why the EK and ending campaigns are such a perfect solution, it wasn't losing that drove people away, it was that there was no coming back after a loss.  Also bugs lag and cheaters, but hopefully they got their poorly made socks together on that issue by now.

Edited by threash

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sometimes i wonder what Game i was playing all those years, cuz i don't recognize what a few people are talking about at times...

 

must just be the senility setting in


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let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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sometimes i wonder what Game i was playing all those years, cuz i don't recognize what a few people are talking about at times...

 

must just be the senility setting in

 

 

Seems to me you either:

 

1. Sat on mourning and never lost a city.

2. Sat on test and rebuilding wasn't a big deal

3. Sat on mourning with tons of duped gold

4. Played on a dead server where you could plant a new city no problem (you said yourself losing a city wasn't a big deal, just go plant a new one)

5. Sat in SDR all day and sold stuff on your buffbot that your SDR scout got from rune hunting.

 

That's the only way you can't recognize people's loss. Was losing a city a reason to quit? No. Was losing a city a massive inconvenience or game changer? Yes.

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well Headlight...some of 3 would fit....except for one thing

 

i was on Treachery....lost Cities, and eventually the entire Server due to CoS

 

did it stop me, or make me want to quit?

 

nope, i NEVER stopped going after CoS until they shut down the server entirely, even without a city to call Home

 

on Mourning, i was with OPP, and later QFT....both Guild gained and lost Cities on a regular basis...a pain, yeah...but not any kind of big deal

 

probably cuz i just never cared too much about the pixels involved....the Politics was my meta

 

i certainly "recognize people's loss"...i just can't empathize with the tears spewed over it, you get knocked down 7 times, there's only one Answer in my Book...

 

you get up 8

 

your mileage may vary...


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let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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Still playing, still losing cities, still taking cities. My mileage is fine. Murderers still don't see murder as that big of a deal when they kill in prison on death row while stabbing other murderers. Make murder okay? Mileage may vary....

 

Sure, my analogy is absurd. But so is thinking that someone can spend 10 years of their life losing cities and not bat an eye.

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Woah you spent 10 years just losing towns?


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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I played for about 5 years and never lost a city. This was across Death, Mourning, Lore Test and Lore.

 

EDIT - Oh and Damnation for like a month. Had at least 1 city on each of those, 3 concurrently on Death

Edited by M0rdred

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Still playing, still losing cities, still taking cities. My mileage is fine. Murderers still don't see murder as that big of a deal when they kill in prison on death row while stabbing other murderers. Make murder okay? Mileage may vary....

 

Sure, my analogy is absurd. But so is thinking that someone can spend 10 years of their life losing cities and not bat an eye.

 

not batting an eye and it's no big deal are two different things, eh?

 

taking a City from me/my Guild usually meant retaliation...which was all part of SB as far as i was concerned....hence my Point

 

no worries...i think i get where you are coming from...i just see "it" differently

 

it's all good, imo


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let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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