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Nazdar

Why Caravans Are Critical

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Sorry if I missed it...  have they mentioned whether or not caravans will be attackable/raidable/lootable?  I understand this is a heavy PvP game so it completely makes sense that they will be.

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As the OP, I'll admit that the title was clickbait.

 

Adall is right:

Critical is a strong word. I think this game would survive with or without caravans and mounts... They are not a base game requirement.

 

My real intention is to draw attention to caravans and increase enthusiasm for the potential fun they bring.

Indeed I have waited years for a game to replicate what EVE has done with hauling.

 

My roots go back to Puzzle Pirates.  (Don't be fooled by it's bubbly theme)  It had a very deep player-run economy complete with resource shipping.  I, too, have waited years for games to realize the fun of the risk of transporting goods.

Edited by Nazdar

Nazdar

Proud member of The Hunger

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There.  Must.  Be.  Caravans.

 

 

With caravans, everything clicks.  You have:

  • A strong sense of world - distance matters!
  • A decoupling of players and resource movement
  • The option of slower/faster movement speeds depending on the load
  • A visible attack/defense point  (pushcart games are tried and true)
  • Built in "escort quests"
  • More strategy, politics, and everything that this game stands for

 

I've seen some concerns that caravans are not a sexy enough stretch goal.  If that is the perception, caravans need better marketing.

 

+1 Great Post

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I want massive in-game worlds with no or very limited teleportation, player-constructed owned and operated caravans that can actually transport other human players around.

 

I literally want to be a medieval fantasy taxi man. 


The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.

- Nietzsche

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I think caravans will be a critical part of the game. I hope the stretch goal is reached. A whole new world of possibilities will revolve around them. 

Edited by Dsanzv

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I see caravans as an excellent source of interesting gameplay, but there are a few things.

 

1.  Don't make it akin to Archeage, where the only way to really move goods is via trade packs.  That was horrible.  In the short time I played, it seemed that the whole game revolved around running these trade packs.

 

2. Make the end result worthwhile.  Will there be a mechanic involved that rewards based on distance traveled (with a minimum distance required to obtain said reward)?  Will there be any "reward" period?  If not, the risk might turn players off, resulting in no caravans and a bunch of players running around gathering resources, hiding in terrain, and arriving at their banks to deposit the goods.

 

If done correctly, caravans would be a strategic source of moving PvP hotspots.  If done incorrectly, or just in an un-fun manner, they'll be nothing but "potential".

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Not really critical.  Nice, interesting, yes.  But you can solve the PvP coordination problem in other ways.

 

I think its a perfectly excellent stretch goal, I'm just a little surprised at the 300k price tag.  Maybe those mount models/art are that expensive though.

 

This. Imagine it being almost EVE like, hiring guilds / groups / individuals to escort your caravan of goods, materials, etc from point A to B, with the very real chance of losing that stuff if a rival guild decides to raid you.

 

Or when warring with another guild, planning supply raids and such, with ambushes and whatnot. The excitement!

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Well I'd imagine it'd be somewhat akin to using a hauler in Eve. You would bring a caravan you are manually or automatically controlling to whatever resource you want to move, and then load it up. It would be much slower than you, unable to outrun enemy players, but it would have massive carrying potential. Risk vs reward etc.

 

I think the only way to really be able to botch it is to have empty caravans cost too much. Making taking them out an overly expensive endeavor, or if for AI or control reasons, they are deeply unfun to move around.

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2. Make the end result worthwhile.  Will there be a mechanic involved that rewards based on distance traveled (with a minimum distance required to obtain said reward)?  Will there be any "reward" period?  If not, the risk might turn players off, resulting in no caravans and a bunch of players running around gathering resources, hiding in terrain, and arriving at their banks to deposit the goods.

 

Afraid I don't agree with this. The whole thing about choosing where to settle is proximity to resources. Choose (or get left with) a place far from materials, and you should be penalised with difficult logistics. It makes strategic placement and position all the more important.

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M0rdred is correct here. You don't need any special, magical brownie points for doing a cargo run - the cargo itself is the reward. Instead of having five people each carrying 20 units of foo-ore (slowly, assuming that inventory weight can affect movement speed), you can have one person driving the cart full of 500 units of ore and four unencumbered warriors walking (or riding) guard. Instead of having to do five runs of ore over an hour or more, you can get the same cargo to your destination in much less time, in just one run. Less time means less risk for the same reward.

 

Expand that five-fold - instead of five players with one cart, you've got 25 players with 5 carts. Or, heck, even 20 characters with 5 carts. You have a sizable battle force that isn't going to be easily ambushed, carrying a lot of materials for the war effort.

 

EVE players already know this. A guarded, well-upgraded and well-protected Freighter can carry more than a fleet of Iterons. The people who don't have to pilot the Iterons can instead be piloting something more... lethal.

Edited by Katzemensch

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I see caravans as an excellent source of interesting gameplay, but there are a few things.

 

1. Don't make it akin to Archeage, where the only way to really move goods is via trade packs. That was horrible. In the short time I played, it seemed that the whole game revolved around running these trade packs.

 

2. Make the end result worthwhile. Will there be a mechanic involved that rewards based on distance traveled (with a minimum distance required to obtain said reward)? Will there be any "reward" period? If not, the risk might turn players off, resulting in no caravans and a bunch of players running around gathering resources, hiding in terrain, and arriving at their banks to deposit the goods.

 

If done correctly, caravans would be a strategic source of moving PvP hotspots. If done incorrectly, or just in an un-fun manner, they'll be nothing but "potential".

I think (or hope) you are misunderstanding what caravans are for.

 

I am pretty sure they will be there to haul actual in game resources, or heck even equipment, that your character can't carry themselves.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Ok. I think I got it. I see where the confusion might have come in.

 

MMO players have been so used to being able to carry as much as their bag space allows. No matter if it is 2000 pounds of ore, 50 swords, 20 bows etc.

As soon as I saw that they would have caravans, and why, I assumed that this game will have some limit on how much you can carry.

This can be done in different ways, weight allowance (but I am a weak mage), space in bags vs amount things take up in them etc.

 

It actually raises a very good question.

How are they going to deal with carrying capacity?


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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It actually raises a very good question.

How are they going to deal with carrying capacity?

 

Personally, I'll go with what I've said elsewhere.

 

One bag, no slots and weight limited.

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