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Well, as soon as I get the Bank of Mordred opens, you'll all be dealing in Mordreds. Each coin will of course be stamped with my glorious visage so that you may gaze upon your glorious benefactor and be reminded of his benevolence. 

 

I'm sure I've said that somewhere else...

 

Seriously though, I'm interested to see how they do player-determined, barter based taxation. Not saying it cannot be done, I just want to see how its implemented before I can really critique. Of course having a centralised coinage system (player minted or otherwise) would simplify that dramatically.

Don't get me wrong I'd love to collect the taxes of my kingdom by asking for a goat, a bundle of sticks and your first born child. That doesn't make any sense tho -_-


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Sugoi - Student Council President

 

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I highly doubt they wouldn't have some currency standard. If you pay taxes with materials, then those materials have a value meaning it is the currency, there's conversion rates, and some basis for a medium of exchange is created. Everyone is going to want to hoard those specific resources.

 

If the cost of taxes was resources then what happens if you don't pay your taxes? arbitrary bricks start disappearing across your castle, <--- post modern art doesnt belong in this game -_-

 

I meant to say there will be no game enforced currency.


How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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Even if that were the case, For the sake of play optimization its all going to be monetized the same way anyways.

 

I never said players would not enforce their own currency.  I am a fan of player enforced currency, not WoW style copper/silver/gold.


How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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I never said players would not enforce their own currency.  I am a fan of player enforced currency, not WoW style copper/silver/gold.

Ok. so why would it matter who is enforcing it or if its being enforced at all, if it's used in exactly the same way that regular currency would.


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Sugoi - Student Council President

 

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It will certainly be interesting to watch how it plays out. One benefit currency has that many may not realize is that it weight/inventory space is reduced significantly. So it may be much easier to export a lot of currency from a  campaign than raw materials.

 

Also I forsee there being a TON of different coins at the start, but then people will gravitate toward a few different ones in the end. Like a large guild/alliance will have their own currency that they try to control. This would open up markets for currency conversion, or it would affect decisions on what currency to take into what campaigns if any at all.

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In-so-far as player base created currency, it would be beneficial to have some 'standardized' coin 'minting' method(s).  For example, each coin minted is 1 oz. of whatever material (I'll use gold as a standard, for convenience sake).. 

 

Varying currency values based on who produces it is a bad idea, as then you will get fluctuations in value, and will require conversion charts, and be prone to manipulation. 

 

As stated previously, the most difficult part is answering the question 'Why does the currency have value?"...Gold has value for us in the 'real world' because it was deemed rare, beautiful, and currency became a necessity for society(s) to 'advance' (as someone else mentioned, it makes it easier to carry a note/money than a lot of 'stuff' around with you).  But why will we, as players, assign value to something like a gold coin?  If it's a standardized metric(using again the 1oz per coin hypothesis) it eliminates the need for conversion tables.  Why would we rather use gold for coins other than for crafting?  Can the old then be converted back into a crafting usable material?   Do we just arbitrarily agree that it has value for the sake of our own convenience?

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VIP will be the currency people trade with.

 

A dev said, in a VIP is p2w thread, that why do we assume we'll have gold coins. They did mention something about player made coins. On mobile or I'd look it up.


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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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what i've seen in other threads there are 2 major problems people are concerned when we talk about a finite amount of money that is generated by crafting money.

 

1. problem:

 

first one is the basic value of money,or generally any good,before there is something modifying that value,like supply and demand.

that basic value of a good is determined by plain usefulness.

any good we could barter with,has a practical use and thus got a base value,which is later modified by supply and demand.

money doesn't have such a basic value,since it has no use per se,you can't eat it and fight your hunger,nor can you use it to craft anything thats would help you sustain your life in the long run,its just coins.

when there is the possibility to just trade goods and services directly there is no use for something as money.

But why did humankind even develop the concept of money then?

Well the reason for that is,money got some major advantages over any other good.

 

One is the matter of transport,you can transport much more money than you can transport pigs,stones,wood and so on.

if we have a weighed based inventory,which would be crucial overall to stimulate the use of caravans,money should be the only weightless good.

 

the second is a matter of cost efficiency,to explain it properly an easy example:

lets assume i raise pigs,i'll need a plot of land to raise them on,so that requires rent,i also need to build and sustain a barn and i also have to sustain the pigs(food,water),so i've got a lot of permanent costs.whereas the amount of money i got is just the amount of money i got,it's easy to calculate your ''profit and loss account''.

 

last major advantage of money over other goods is the expiration date of any other good than money.

lets continue our pig farm example:

so i have raised my pigs and it costed me quite a lot thus far to bring them up,but anyway i can sell them for a reasonable price,which i calculated over profit and loss calculation(everyone learns that poorly made socks in school,heck if you think logically you can come up with that calculation by yourself,or use google-sensei),and ensures my price is still competitive.

But at the end some of my pigs died before i was able to trade them for anything.

those pigs would have caused permanent costs over a long time and in the end they didn't just bring you no profit,they didn't even cover for their caused costs.

well of course that doenst mean an overall loss,since you can cover those costs with your profits from the trade of other goods,but its still less profit and its not a really reliable form of income,since you can't plan things accurately.and this gets even worse because the good you traded your pigs for also got an expiration date and may also cause permanent costs.

this makes planning a business in the long run nearly impossible,since the overall income can vary greatly because of that.

 

living things would obviously die from hunger,thirst and eventually death by aging.

ores and ore related goods would corrode,maybe there could also exist alloys which are resistant to corrosion to a certain extend.

wood would have a long durability,but should be heavier,maybe different types of wood,some lighter but with less durability and some heavier but longer durability.

stone should have no expiration date,but is in turn really heavy.

 

 

 

these are the major advantages i was speaking of,that only money has and that would give it a base value,because it has it's unique usefulness,like any other good has.

 

but this is still not enough,since this was only the first and most basic problem.

 

 

2. problem:

 

teh second problem is the flow of money and i think the answer is rather easy.

the game needs to enable the simulation of the money circle.

we need 3-4 parties for that to work.

first party is someone harnessing gold/silver in an organized manner and thus is able to provide a more or less stable amount of gold/silver to mint into coins.

the one minting them is the second party needed,it should be the governing body of a state,but it could also be possible for the state to take the role of the 1. party,thats why i wrote 3-4 parties above.

the next party are the players that take the role of the financial sector aka the banks.

they would keep an eye on the flow of money,the amount harnessed and minted,keep money safely storaged(craftable vaults),give out loans to promising businesses and generating profits for themselves and for their investors via interest rates for loans.

and the last party is the sum of all players,that storage their money in a bank,take loans and pay them back+interest.

 

combine this with an initial amount of money,owned by the few basic NPCs that exist and little amounts of gold dropped by humanoid mobs, would help to start up the flow of money right from start,without the immediate need to supply the players with minted gold.

 

since this topic is rather complex i don't claim to have solved all the problems,there may be more problems coming with such a system that i haven't thought about yet,but i think its a good point to further think about it and maybe develop a useable system in the future.

 

 

i also discussed this and a lot more in this threat 

 

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2055-suggestion-for-a-realistic-and-meaningful-in-game-societyplayer-driven-changetradecraftinggovernmentfoodpvpminting/page-2

Edited by kampfbock

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Ok. so why would it matter who is enforcing it or if its being enforced at all, if it's used in exactly the same way that regular currency would.

 

Personal preference.  I want to use coins that were minted by players.  I'm selfish like that.


How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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I hope there will be no currency like coins or gold, this would make for players actually trading items for items and not just items for (a lot of) gold

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+1 Barter Town!

 

Different campains with different cycles will automatically come up with a standard currency for trading. For example in wintertime food will be rare, so you will most likely trade food for other resources like stone or wood. So each campaign will have their own "standard" currency as time goes by.

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Ok. so why would it matter who is enforcing it or if its being enforced at all, if it's used in exactly the same way that regular currency would.

 

There is a huge difference. An account/character wallet that contains 10000 gold pieces is completely different from 40 stacks of 250 gold pieces taking up 40 inventory slots that can be looted either in full or in part by a ganker.

 

You also have to take into account that within different campaigns the availability of certain resources would vary e.g. in one campaign there's an overabundance of stone to the point that people would regularly dump stone on the ground if they start running out of inventory space. This means stone is close to worthless in that campaign. Meanwhile in another campaign stone is incredibly rare people would trade 10 pieces of gold for 1 piece of stone etc. And then there's the economy in the EK.

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Crow Coinz

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Crow Coinz

 

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I vote for this... Duck Bucks (something I used in an elementary economics fair).

 

But really... goats for currency.

Edited by Adall

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I feel there is a reason that bartering is not a system still commonly used. I for one believe that in any player driven economy there will inevitably be a currency, I am by no means saying that battering can not happen but I can't see it as a primary form of trade that lasts in the game.

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Also this whole thread should go watch log horizon at least the first half of season one, some interesting currency and diplomatic stuff man.

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