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Vision And Control Altering Debuffs


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What do you guys think about debuffs altering ones vision or control. For example Darkfall has a spell which turns the screen of the player black for a few seconds. You are still able to perform all actions, but the risk of hurting your allies instead of your enemies becomes really high. An other example is a spell in Terra which reverses your movment keys. Go forwards becomes go backwards, go left becomes go right and so on.

Would you like to see these types of spells in Crowfall?

Edited by LilaLarry
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I like vision being altered, but not control. There are too many skills in most MMO's that take control of your character away, and I think it's a terrible trend.

 

The vision stuff needs to be put in sparingly. The reason it worked out in DF is because the TTK was so agonizingly long that being blind for two seconds wasn't a deal breaker.

 

This is a very good topic, by the way.

Edited by hexen
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What do you guys think about debuffs altering ones vision or control. For example Darkfall has a spell which turns the screen of the player black for a few seconds. You are still able to perform all actions, but the risk of hurting your allies instead of your enemies becomes really high. An other example is a spell in Terra which reverses your movment keys. Go forwards becomes go backwards, go left becomes go right and so on.

Would you like to see these types of spells in Crowfall?

 

I personally really like these kind of spells.

- Confusion in DF could be evaded by just not looking at it. The spell basically worked like a flashbang in fps games. Turning your back to it, and it wont affect you.

- Eyerot was a small projectile and you had to actually hit the player to affect him.

- The reverse control spell from Tera also sounds very cool. Pure player skill will be able to overcome the spell. Players can get used to it and even be able to keep their mobility to a certain degree and not run around like a headless chicken.

 

 

I hope we're gonna see stuff like that, instead of the hard CC spells that you usually see. I dont really want any stun/sleep/fear effects.

Be creative Artcraft :D

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Confusion from DF brings up another good point. The projectile animation was really obvious.

 

Considering the scale of this game, if there's going to be any AoE cc/blinds/etc, they should be telegraphed in some way. Fortunately the graphics style of Crowfall really pops colors out, so they could make this stuff easy to see.

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Yeah I also don't like hard CC like being rooted to the ground or turned into an animal and such. So I think this kind of stuff is a fun alternative. A little problem with control altering spells is their varying effectiveness. If you think of the movement reversing spell. The guy who logs into for the game the first time and gets effected by it might not get it is a debuff and will be left in confusion what the heck is goning on and end up dead, while a veteran will just run a half a second in the wrong direction. A spell I really would like to see is a debuff which reverses the X and Y axis on the mouse for a few seconds. Even if veterans learn to deal with it quit effectively I gues it will still make everyone aim worse.

Edited by LilaLarry
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call me kooky....but I advise GREAT care being taken when it comes to CC spells working on Players....

 

not only can they easily be game breaking....they are often very easily exploitable and finally... there is very little that ruins the funfactor for many Players than being rooted or stunnned and being rendered helpless and getting ganked...

 

could just be me...

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This idea of inverting/reversing/messing with players movement is acceptable in small doses, but it should not be a major field of cc. (Not to suggest that anyone was saying it should be).

 

First, it adds a needless learning curve. The idea that you might learn to operate normally when hit by a certain cc requires you to practice something dumb. It will disproportionately hurt new players, and increase the learning curve in a way that doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the game.

 

Second, it's ripe for exploits. A simple invert mouse toggle rewards people for exploiting with an easy client-side workaround in a way that is practically undetectable. An example of this is those aforementioned DFUW blinding skills. You could actually change your resolution and confine the blind to a tiny box on the screen early on. Unless you recorded it, nobody would ever know.

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Ok I didn't take exploits into consideration. I guess you could have spells that alter controls in some random way, but I don't think I would like that.

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call me kooky....but I advise GREAT care being taken when it comes to CC spells working on Players....

 

not only can they easily be game breaking....they are often very easily exploitable and finally... there is very little that ruins the funfactor for many Players than being rooted or stunnned and being rendered helpless and getting ganked...

 

could just be me...

 

call me kooky....but I advise GREAT care being taken when it comes to CC spells working on Players....

 

not only can they easily be game breaking....they are often very easily exploitable and finally... there is very little that ruins the funfactor for many Players than being rooted or stunnned and being rendered helpless and getting ganked...

 

could just be me...

 

No, it's not just you, I agree - I can only speculate, but healing won't be the same as it was in SB.

So ACE should be careful with CC spells and the length of duration of powers.

oops, double quote.  ^_^

Edited by Mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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I've been seeing a lot of great ideas on spells and characters but the idea on it's own is pretty sweet yet if you combine every suggestion the players made it's probably way more than a tidbit of craziness. I am not sure how the developers would acknowledge all the suggestions I think as for skills, suggestions would be more significant once players see the actual gameplay.

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All of these should abilities should be able to be used very sparingly and tanky characters should be highly resistant to them.

Blinding abilities are a good idea and not having complete blindness or partial blindness depending upon how well you dodge the ability is even better.

Deafness is also fun.

Forced movement is fun as well.

False information (health mana location of people on the mini map) is also fun.

 

Stuns/roots should have diminishing returns if there are any but there are enough alternatives (and it's not really seen in real life) such as silence and slowed movement speed that it's not necessary. 

Edited by Holyvigil
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Completely eliminating CCs could make playing as a caster tough. They would have to seriously innovate the slot. If classic casters don't have a way to stop themselves from getting bludgeoned by a guy with a sword, they don't last long.

 

To go along the lines of the control or visual modification spells, there is a spell that the Dungeons and Dragons Warlock class can choose at the beginning of the game called Eye-Bite. It makes the caster temporarily invisible to a single target. This could be op in 1v1 situations, depending on the length of the invisibility, but Artcraft has already said that they don't nessesarily care about the solo player. The game is meant for group combat.

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Worst ideas evar. a variety of vision control effects could work fine, but opponent control is the crux of the trinity tank and spank system, which is horribly pathetic strategically for gameplay.

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I'm definitely not a fan of hard CC like long stuns. It just requires everyone to ensure they have counters, stun immunity etc, which then cancels out a whole ability. It's generally either too game-changed or useless. Unless something in the middle can be found, I say skip stuns.

 

Roots/snares are similar, although I mind them much less - possibly because I was always on the giving end and rarely the receiving end...these kinds of things are important in order to retain some of the tactical element of field combat they can represent, but I am hoping that CF's use of physics means we will get a whole new area of CC and such things which will change the way we think about the mechanic in MMOs.

 

I didn't really have any issues with the player-effects in DF, and I agree with the point raised earlier - with CF's art style and it hopefully being light on the telegraphs, seeing CC coming could be easier. I like the deafness idea - in fact I much prefer the use of sound when it comes to queues rather than just visuals, so that could be a good one. Not a huge fan of control-loss but in small doses I can live with it.

 

In addition to the use of the physics aspect for new types of CC, I'd like for them to explore more of a rock/paper/scissors aspect to it. Instead of every single group bringing the same CC - stuns, roots, snares, blinds etc - have them be strictly varied along Archetype lines, and have self-only counters exist as well.  Forcing people to make choices as opposed to just bringing everything to a fight usually produces interesting results.

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