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TullyAckland

04/09/15 - Skill Training Faq + Behind The Scenes With The Artists!

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I'm not sure you're going to find Crowfall to be the game you're hoping for.  Please bear in mind that I'm someone that focuses mostly on crafting and healing in a game so PvP is not my preferred playstyle.

 

The game is PvP centric.  The devs have already stated that you can play the game without PvP but you'll be missing the bulk of the game if you do.  The inner PvP  planets are where the focus of the game is and winning the campaigns is the activity that the game pushes you to.

 

There is PvE as far as mobs and occasional large things to kill that drop rare resources but there are no raids per se.  Crafting is important so far in as much as it supplies gear and buildings for the inner planets and the PvP there.   There has been no word about things like taverns and ingame music etc. 

 

One of the reasons I'm so active on these boards is to push for the inclusion of more balance of player choices within the game.  There are the EK's but we're not sure yet exactly how they fit into the actual day to day experience of the player yet.  We know we can build there but not how - and the issue of resources to build with on the EK's is fuzzy.

 

I suggest reading the FAQ's and going through the dev announcement thread.  We are missing a lot of information still but that bit of research may give you a better idea of where the devs are heading with Crowfall.

 

It seems I am constantly looking for, but never quite finding, an MMORPG with all of the beautiful elements of hardcore PvP, without devoting the majority of the features and mindset exclusively to hardcore PvP. It's why Darkfall online did, largely what EvE Online does (though at least there are indeed activities you can do besides pvp and conquest). 

 

I'm looking for a bit more than most are, I think. I don't just game a game, I want an alternate world to delve into. But I need to grow attached to that world and my character in it, and that can't happen if I am handed progression for free, you know what I mean? 


The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.

- Nietzsche

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I do enjoy the idea of passive skill advancement, but I hate the idea that we'd throw actual character planning and theorycrafting down the drain.

That isn't going to happen. Eventually you will be able to max out every skill you have, but that would be true of an active skilling system as well, only with active skilling it would occur much, much faster. The differences in customization will be in your choice of archetype, promotion class and disciplines, as well as whatever options you choose at character creation. On top of that, your choice of which skills you train and in which order will be important as you progress. Maybe you took the archery discipline and trained it for a while, only to change your mind and go in a completely different direction. Your choices absolutely matter.

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That isn't going to happen. Eventually you will be able to max out every skill you have, but that would be true of an active skilling system as well, only with active skilling it would occur much, much faster.

I must have missed the part where they said there would be no skill point cap.

 

I personally hope there are caps of some sort.  Having people maxed in EVERYthing is absurd.  There's a reason a jack of all trades is called a master of none.

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The EvE online skill system is garbage - I've played the game since day 1. 
My point earlier if they use similar system in CF: there're little room for mistakes when you're creating your character.
And u can't really 'delete' your character if you don't like the Archetype 4 months after launch, because then you're far, far, far behind in ps (passive training.) 
That's obvious to me; if others can't see that - I don't understand how to explain it.

 

The problem with Eve is that everything is gated based on skill level. You can buy a skill book, but if you don't have all of the prerequisites trained, you have to take the time to train all of those to the appropriate level before you can train the skill you actually want.

 

I don't believe that will be the case in CF. Some skills will be gated as you'll need to obtain the appropriate discipline, but once you have the skill, all skilling up will do is make you better at that particular skill. 

 

And yes, you can gimp your character. And yes, it might take a long time to fix that character. That's part of the system. Your choices matter. If you are a VIP, you can train 3 characters at once, so if you mess up on one, you can play a different one while you fix the first.

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I must have missed the part where they said there would be no skill point cap.

 

I personally hope there are caps of some sort.  Having people maxed in EVERYthing is absurd.  There's a reason a jack of all trades is called a master of none.

There could be a skill point cap, but I'm guessing not since they are using passive skilling. There are no skill point caps in Eve that I am aware of. 

 

But you are still missing the point that each character will not have, can not have, every skill in the game. There could be 100 skills in the game and each character has about 20 of them. Even if you max them all out, you are still going to be very different from someone else who maybe has 10 of the same skills you do and 10 that you don't because he chose different disciplines.

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There could be a skill point cap, but I'm guessing not since they are using passive skilling. There are no skill point caps in Eve that I am aware of. 

 

But you are still missing the point that each character will not have, can not have, every skill in the game. There could be 100 skills in the game and each character has about 20 of them. Even if you max them all out, you are still going to be very different from someone else who maybe has 10 of the same skills you do and 10 that you don't because he chose different disciplines.

There is, essentially, a soft cap in EVE, and that's the fact that the game will (likely) cease to exist before anyone will be able to max every single skill.

 

I didn't miss any point, as I don't care about that.  I'm saying one character should NOT be able to max all of their skills, regardless of whether or not their skill set is different from another character/archetype/Discipline.

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Ohh, 3 characters can be trained.

Nice!

 

I can make me my Main.

An female Centaur Alt.

An Fae Assasin Alt.

 

At the same time.

My Main will advance faster, but i could just hop into an Alt to have some change of scenery.

Like more blood and gore .. horse racing .. cliff pushing  or the new favorite sport of mine ...

 

 

Forgemaster Golfing.

 

XD

 

Ahhhh okay serious time.

I like that as VIP you get something worth. What wont be Pay to Win.

Having 3 Characters train, could be argued ... but in fact. It's not going to make someone "Stronger". They just have two characters that will be weaker skill wise then his true main. He still needs to learn the playstyles he wanted with them.

 

I think that future could most likely be somethign like:

 

"Hmm, does Melee Frostweaver with  cold debuffs work well .. or should i go Melee Frostweaver with more life on hit?"

Just pop in two Alts and see what suits you best, delte one and go on.

That actually is really nice. For people wanting to test out stuff.

 

So VIP= Time Saving Bonus+ Incentives for more Ingame Market purchases?

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I want to play all Archetypes in CF within certain length of the game development let's say 1 year after launch, but the progression system at the moment somehow prevents me.. Because I know I will be far behind other players - so it's a lot harder to compete in PvP with 30% sword skill compare to a day 1 character who have 140%. I don't even include item difference into the scenario.

ACE need to examine the system and create a total skill cap like Ultima Online, and accelerate the overall passive skill progression - it's a lot better for balance including 'new' CF players who join 1 year after the main launch.

Edited by Mythx

MQfHl7c.png

Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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There is, essentially, a soft cap in EVE, and that's the fact that the game will (likely) cease to exist before anyone will be able to max every single skill.

 

I didn't miss any point, as I don't care about that.  I'm saying one character should NOT be able to max all of their skills, regardless of whether or not their skill set is different from another character/archetype/Discipline.

PS as i understood.

You can max out everything. But only if you have the racial thing too, the others too.

So regardless of what you do.

 

YOU can't never be OVERALL max.

You can be max in the things your race, profession, discipline and stuff makes you able too.

I think i read soemwhere, if you change that .. stats over the value of the now max, will be cut off?

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I want to play all Archetypes in CF within certain length of the game development let's say 1 year after launch, but the progression system at the moment somehow prevents me.. Because I know I will be far behind other players - so it's a lot harder to compete in PvP with 30% sword skill compare to a day 1 character who have 140%. I don't even include item difference into the scenario.
ACE need examine the system and create a skill cap like Ultima Online, and accelerate the overall passive skill progression - it's a lot better for balance
including 'new' CF players who join 1 year after the main launch.

 

As said, getting to 100% is fast.

YOu should work some time and get to know your class slowly. From it's weaker point to its stronger one.

Getting the next 40 or 75%. That is magic, a combination of many things. And long planning to what would want.

 

 

Yes, newbies will be in a disadvantage.

But heck. This is a MMORPG.

Get into a friendly guild you like.

Fiend new friends.

Let them show you the tricks and kicks.

Grow with them and together you can be stronger.

 

A Party isn't as strong as it's best member.

Neither is it the weakest.

It's the combined force of all!

 

If that newbie wants to go PWN hardcore on the dregs ... then sorry, he should probably think before acting.

In old school MMORPG Ragnarok Online.

I was 1 year late or so to get in.

I found a guild which had 1!! Level 95 Player (99 was max).

Through partying with someone random, who was the little brother of that 95.

Through hardship and funny times. We managed to hold a castle with a bandit group of 40 people in Payon xD.

Against Guilds attacking that average in the 80~90s.

With us being in the late 70s.

 

(Getting to 70 is about 3 weeks of hardworking fun grind~ If you can chat and mess around, tis fun. Grind itself was boring, The people were the fun thing. Going from 70 to 80 ... 1 month? If you aren't hardcore. Going to 90? 3 Months to more. Getting to 99, required a tremendous amount of Experience. The curve was skyrocketing. Muliplying by 1,5 i think [Overall Epx needed till this level *1,5= New Level])

 

We were undergeared.

Underskilled.

And understatted.

 

 

But heck, we had trapped the whole place with ankle snares! While we were invading. And with our sacrificial Crusader Sqaud of 3 ... we managed to kill their wizzards. Slowly whittling them down over 1 hour. Finally entering and setting it to ours. Haha, that was epic.

...We lost it next week in like 2 minutes to the guild we took it from, but it was epic.

 

We had access to a guild dungeon. Which was a nightmare for us lowbies.

Even more so as the other 5 guilds could pvp us in there ...

But loot and Exp .. and the fun of trzing to not die horrible.

 

Ahhhh ... good old times.

 

Remember the daz .. we crashed the server with @Deadbranches@ summoning monsters inside a castle .. and before it. To hold it.

The GM got angrz at us ... luck was on our side. No one could reallz saz that were did that xD. After that DB was pronned upon b deathgayes.

Edited by Greenfox21

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I'm sorry, but mastering a skill with no active input at all just feels wrong to me. 

 

I have to agree. Perhaps something in between? For example active use can shave off hours or days of training. Like a multiplier based on use.  e.g Use a longsword for a while and you get  X%  xp gain for Y amount of time. 

 

edit: for clarity

Edited by calcal112

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Well they said 100% would mean you would be roughly equivalent to the best in the world. Since we're supposed to be immortal, we can go above 100%. Where did they say that 100% would be the cap? They only said how long it would take for a skill to passively train to 100%.

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Great update, much gratitude for it! It is unfortunate however that for lack of 1 or 2 missing details, we have 5 pages and counting with many posts arguing over a system which because of those couple details, is actually understood by no-one posting.

 

Anyway, a system which includes passive training is a good one. A system what relies only on passive training however, not as good. We do not yet know enough to determine if the active training CF will have is going to be such that it prevents the problems the passive elements of the system they have incompletely described will result in, so hopefully they give us the missing pieces of the puzzle so we can contribute in an intelligent, meaningful and helpful way to the discussion and development of these ideas. Until or unless they do, the signal to noise ratio in these posts will be, well, unfortunate. :)

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Great update, much gratitude for it! It is unfortunate however that for lack of 1 or 2 missing details, we have 5 pages and counting with many posts arguing over a system which because of those couple details, is actually understood by no-one posting.

 

Anyway, a system which includes passive training is a good one. A system what relies only on passive training however, not as good. We do not yet know enough to determine if the active training CF will have is going to be such that it prevents the problems the passive elements of the system they have incompletely described will result in, so hopefully they give us the missing pieces of the puzzle so we can contribute in an intelligent, meaningful and helpful way to the discussion and development of these ideas. Until or unless they do, the signal to noise ratio in these posts will be, well, unfortunate. :)

 

 

Quiet you!  With your logic and reasoning!    :P


http://www.twitch.tv/Waikikamukau Yes, it's Why-Kick-Uh-Moo-Cow / Twitter: @TheMukau

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Yeah true, passive skills is good for casual players based on skill progression, which is a neat idea.

Maybe they forgot to add a skill refiner in that FAQ. - so people don't need to 'delete' their characters,

because he/she want to use a different weapon for instance. So he/she can get back some of the skill points - based on today 'meta' among guilds/players.

Edited by Mythx

MQfHl7c.png

Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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