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We going to see Perma Death?


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It actually does make you less hardcore... you just don't realize it? 

You can't give any kind of counter argument other than "you're not hardcore" so I don't know why I even bothered debating otherwise.

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This wouldn't work for an MMO.   Hopefully this MMO will be something that is constructed to be invested in over a long period of time. A real virtual world. Can't have this sort of long term invest

If there's any kind of involved leveling system (regardless of whether it's leveling actual levels, or skills, or what have you), Perma Death doesn't make a whole lot of sense: you're just encouraging

Death needs to mean something. Maybe not "lose it all", but it needs to sting.

You can't give any kind of counter argument other than "you're not hardcore" so I don't know why I even bothered debating otherwise.

 

You shouldn't have bothered debating otherwise because it's just a ridiculous claim to make.  "Just cause I can't handle permadeath doesn't mean i'm less hardcore"... yes it does... you are not as hardcore, that isn't the end of the world, but don't pretend you are just as hardcore...

 

I don't need to make longwinded posts to address it, because it is beyond contestation... people who can't handle permadeath or shy away from it, simply aren't as hardcore...

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I like the idea of Permadeath. But there are ways to add it to the game and still be allowed to return from the dead.

 

It would put all the responsibility on the player of making the choices as their character grows in levels.

 

Choice one:

You Die and are gone.

 

Choice Two:

When you begin you have the choice of making donations to a Temple. So if you do die you maybe resurrected at the level you last donated for. You return as you were, But remember to survive future deaths you must donate to the Temple and every time you level up to stay where you are currently at.

 

Choice Three:

Beg a crow to bring you back. You would return at your level but would return to the world in only rags and will have lost all your items that you were carrying in return for life.

 

Choice Four. Flee before you die.

 

With choices like these you would be more aware of your Character's decisions and who you would trust later standing with you in a fight.

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So if this game ends up with a lot of seiging and warfare as a maintstay, do you really think permadeath works in a game like that? 

 

I don't or we don't know enough details to be honest.

 

The only permadeath system I kind of was intresteted in was the system that you had souls and they xferred over to your new character. I never ended up playing the game and I can't even remember what it was called. I just do not seeing permadeath in this game thinking it will be a seige and pvp orientated game. I could be wrong and I guess time will tell.


 


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I wont use perma death in a progressive MMO.... maybe something like the old L2 .... lose EXP + drop or break items....

 

Man, early days prior to Interlude, dying meant 4% at any level, that doesn't sound like much to people who haven't experienced the grind, but it really made you not want to die, under any circumstance, and would run like a **** if it meant someone giving up on chasing you, or pay a ton of money for Blessed Scrolls of a Escape which teleports you to town immediately on use.

 

I would also like to see this combined with dropping what you have in your inventory at the time, I truely liked this aspect of Shadowbane, it made farming a little more dangerous, because even as you farm it, it's still not yours until you bank it, but it also made going out into farm zones with the intent on hunting said farmers, alot more exciting.

 

Always salty when they delete thier gold tho.

Edited by aperion

"Camouflage is the color of fear..  I have no need to hide from my foes.. I have no fear of death.  My colors I wear openly, they proclaim louder than any words, "I am proud to live, I am proud to die."

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Neither Permadeath nor Full Loot is going to happen because the developers have already implied that there will be Endgame progression. Both Permadeath and Full Loot are antithetical to progression.

 

Some people think that Permadeath and Full Loot are hardcore but they are actually extremely casual systems. That is because you cannot have hardcore Raiding for example (ex. Mythic Progression in WoW) and Permadeath/Full Loot in the same game.

Edited by lycrates
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Neither Permadeath nor Full Loot is going to happen because the developers have already implied that there will be Endgame progression. Both Permadeath and Full Loot are antithetical to progression.

 

 

Source? I missed that.

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I can understand that permadeath isn't very good for a mmorpg but if there isn't full loot too then what's the purpose to kill someone? Just to piss him off?

This is meaningless because you just respawn with all the gear and you don't care at all, there is no consequences.

 

Aother problem with games without full loot and with levels is that they are gear based as a main purpose of progression, since you don't lose your stuff this stuff is hard to get more your level increase and you need lot of grind and farm.

 

Hope devs understand this concept.

 

Btw, permadeath is interesting but without knowing the features of the game is hard to tell, we have to wait for more info before debate if permadeath is good or bad.

Edited by kdchan

Archduchess Alice

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Some people think that Permadeath and Full Loot are hardcore but they are actually extremely casual systems. That is because you cannot have hardcore Raiding for example (ex. Mythic Progression in WoW) and Permadeath/Full Loot in the same game.

 

Permadeath and Full Loot are extremely casual, yet raiding can be hardcore...  I don't know if I can take you even remotely serious after a comment like that.

 

 

I still don't understand why every single person on these forums thinks that a permadeath system means that the first time you die you are permanently dead.  There are many ways to implement a system like this which would make permadeath only happen in certain situations.

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Some people think that Permadeath and Full Loot are hardcore but they are actually extremely casual systems. That is because you cannot have hardcore Raiding for example (ex. Mythic Progression in WoW) and Permadeath/Full Loot in the same game.

 

Go back to WoW if you want Hard Core Raiding, I want a game that makes you scared to be alone in a zone.  Make people play smart and not carry around half of their bank on thier character.

 

Permadeath I can understand how it can be casual, in a sense, since it aleviates long term goals.  Full Loot on the otherhand, is hardly casual, and when I say full loot, I don't mean like, everything in your inventory and everything equiped to your character..  Just a players inventory would drop, leaving armor weapons accssories still on the character after death.

"Camouflage is the color of fear..  I have no need to hide from my foes.. I have no fear of death.  My colors I wear openly, they proclaim louder than any words, "I am proud to live, I am proud to die."

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"meaningless pvp". Never heard those two words in a sentence together.

 

Not that I am the one that said it earlier in this thread, but I have said meaningless PvP many times over the years. Any game that has instanced X vs X fights where at the end of the match nothing in the world is changed outside of the players involved getting favor/honor/tokens/experience/whatever is meaningless PvP to me outside of the fun factor.

 

As for the perma death, I don't see myself ever playing a game that has that unless it is only for certain shards/servers. One of the most important aspects of MMORPGs to myself and many others is character progression and perma death kills that, literally.

Edited by noobzilla_youtube
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I don't remember it too well as I was much younger when I played Shadowbane, but I liked how they handled death where someone could loot your corpse and take any items you didn't have equipped.  It wasn't perma death but it still really hurt to die if you have been out adventuring for a while.

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In regards to PK'ing and the desire for permadeath, what about death timers?

 

If you die/are killed, there could be a set amount of time that has to pass before you can login again.  Anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour seems like a good chunk of time that would turn the tide in pvp battles, but not prevent people from playing on their days off.  There could even be rare items that mitigate the death timer, or a player's resurrect skill perhaps. 

 

This would allow for death to have a real consequence without turning away the people who are not super hardcore.

 

Thoughts?

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In regards to PK'ing and the desire for permadeath, what about death timers?

 

If you die/are killed, there could be a set amount of time that has to pass before you can login again.  Anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour seems like a good chunk of time that would turn the tide in pvp battles, but not prevent people from playing on their days off.  There could even be rare items that mitigate the death timer, or a player's resurrect skill perhaps. 

 

This would allow for death to have a real consequence without turning away the people who are not super hardcore.

 

Thoughts?

That's a recipe for players to quit and not log back in man ....I would never pay for a game that restricts me from doing what I am paying to do .. log in and have fun LOL


 


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Permadeath does nothing but make people scared to leave their safeholds. And considering how often you die in a PvP focused game you would spend more time rerolling characters than playing the game as intended.

You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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I want harsh penalties to death, full loot, maybe even stat loss (or temporarily reduced stats after revival) but full loot goes too far. It lessens the aspects of war in the game, as any death is of immense impact. Simply too much so if you ask me. 

 

Perma death is what I hate the most about real life. 

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.

- Nietzsche

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I cannot remember the upcoming title I read about but they had a little different spin on "Perma-Death". The concept was you have a set number of lives, say 100. Whether it was due to PvE or PvP, if you played the game long enough, that character would die and be gone forever. Would make for some epic "griefing" encounters. It would be incumbent on the player to trade out gear or special items. I could go for a system like that. It would lend a sense of mortality to the in game character, but not make the character basically "Throw Away". One kill perma-death  does not work imo. I think people need to be invested in their characters, one kill perma-death does not achieve that.

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If the game was centered more on survival, where pvp conflicts are more fight or flight type engagements, it could work.  But in a game that has players actively encouraged to engage in large scale conflict, it will not work.

 

I haven't read the entire thread, has anyone suggested ways perma-death would work in an MMO centered around alliances and conquest?  Just curious if there is a serious argument for perma-death besides "moar hardcore rawr!"

 

(Also can anyone point to me to other MMORPG's with perma-death?)

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