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Jive

Lets Talk Item Breakage

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     Not sure why I haven't seen this topic come up, but I think its something that should be discussed.  Item breakage no matter what is a very bad idea in my opinion.  I used to play a game called Firefall and in that game no matter if I never died my items would slowly but surely break and become useless.  This feature caused a lot of problems for me and my friends that played and apparently enough people complained about it that it was eventually removed long after I quit playing.  It also only allowed me to bring my best items out of storage for something big.

     I also played a ton of EVE where items did not break unless the player was blown up, then of course items were destroyed.  I liked this model it keep crafters in the loop and always needed but it didn't punish the player for playing as long as his skill keep him alive.  This is the model I would love to see implemented in crowfall.  If I want to roll around in my best gear I can, but its more risk vs. reward at that point.  Yes they could implement a rule set where this instance holds true but I think the game would suffer from fragmentation.

 

     Let me try to explain a bit why I dislike it that doesn't have to do with any games whatsoever.

Decay wouldn't make sense to me in any game.  It is a passive prossess that just happens to the player and is outside his or her control.  In a sandbox world where the player is an important part of what happens around him both to others and to himself.  Passive systems rob that control away from the player.  In the sandbox I choose what I do with my time including the "passive skill tree" I control it.  The only thing I don't control is other players actions and those of NPCs.  If I die to a player it's because I was outplayed not because I was predestined to die. 

 

     Item decay on the other hand just happens no matter what you as the player will do.  While this fits in the thematic scheme of things the only passive things I see in CF are the passage of time (end of campaigns, I get it makes the world unique) and item-decay-on-use.  It robs the player of agency on what happens to him at any given time I mean they are even thinking of making some campaigns permanent as long as conditions are met once again giving agency to the player.  I hope this helps explain a bit why I don't like item-decay-on-use.

     Well that's my thoughts on the matter but I'd like to hear yours

TL:DR If I don't mess up don't break my stuff

Edited by Jive

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Both itembreakage and item destruction is almost a must in a game where crafting is going to be very important.

It depends on how quick the item gets to the broken state though, they could make it weeks, or even a month before a piece of gear is broken beyond use.

 

What if a crafter in a campaign could fix the armor/wep. It could also be very cheap to get decent gear and not matter at all.

I guess this is the problem of not knowing :)

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I agree that item breakage needs to be in, but not in the firefall way.  Here's a breakdown of ways items break.  I just prefer the EVE way as it rewards skill.

 

World of Warcraft: Durability is an annoying mechanic that causes your weapons to slowly wear down as you play, requiring you to eventually visit a repair NPC to pay for repairs. If an item breaks, it becomes useless until you repair it. A minor gold sink and inconvenience that doesn't really add gameplay value.

Firefall: Similarly, items wear down as you use them. You repaired through a kiosk that also whittles away at the item's maximum durability each time it gets used. This means, eventually your item will go from full durability to trash in a blink. Once broken, items are forever useless. As mentioned, the result is that nobody ever used really good items.

 

EVE: You die = total item loss.  However if you don't mess up then items hang around forever.  This system doesn't effect the crafters as people die everyday and are constantly in need of new stuff.

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Equipment should deteriorate with use and on death. A crafter (player) should be able to repair equipment before it breaks, but this should reduce the total "health" of the item, so that eventually (a long time) it will break no matter what.

 

Item churn is necessary for heavier crafter involvement and good for the economy.

 

Don't get so attached to your stuff. It will be easy to replace.

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There's no guarantee you'll be able to get anything out at the end of the campaign, anyway. Think of all gear as temporary and disposable.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

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Equipment should deteriorate with use and on death. A crafter (player) should be able to repair equipment before it breaks, but this should reduce the total "health" of the item, so that eventually (a long time) it will break no matter what.

 

Item churn is necessary for heavier crafter involvement and good for the economy.

 

Don't get so attached to your stuff. It will be easy to replace.

This ^

However, Item deterioration has only been announced upon death, so far.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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This ^

However, Item deterioration has only been announced upon death, so far.

On death I'm fine with.  On use not so much,  EVE has probably the strongest crafter economy in gaming and it doesn't have item break on use.

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SWG had item decay but was pretty slow if good quality unless you died a lot.  You could also buy repair kits of varying quality from crafters that could increase the longevity of items.  It was a good system for crafter-based economy IMO.

 

  In a game with player looting, I wouldn't get too attached to items anyway.  Like someone else said, think of gear as consumables. 

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SWG had item decay but was pretty slow if good quality unless you died a lot.  You could also buy repair kits of varying quality from crafters that could increase the longevity of items.  It was a good system for crafter-based economy IMO.

 

  In a game with player looting, I wouldn't get too attached to items anyway.  Like someone else said, think of gear as consumables. 

Ohh I won't get attached it's just that with player looting item decay just becomes a hassle and doesn't add anything to the game that item destruction on death wouldn't already do.  I still have to replace the gear via a crafter, but its my own fault that requires me to do so not an in game mechanic forcing me to.

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Well item breakage has to be in but i would prefer that when your item reaches zero durability it doesnt get testroyed,it just enters an unwearable state.

From which you can repair it but it requires more gold and stuff.

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Personally, I'm all for item deterioration. There was a post quite a bit ago about it actually that brought up a good system sort of described by someone above. Durability's hardcap is constantly degrading slowly while the durability itself degrades much quicker. You can use a sharpener or some sort of item to bring your item to max durability (at that time), but once it breaks it breaks for good. This durability is transfered over during item loot, and has a certain amount deducted per death.

 

This allows crafters to stay in the loop (but not as often), while giving players a chance to repair.

 

I'd look for the old topic but I'm on mobile right now.


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I think item decay on death only is sufficient for this game. There will also be player looting and import/export rules, so gear will already be rather expendable no need to make that any faster IMO. 

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I think a more beefed up version of minecraft's item system would work great with this. Especially the modded versions that had repair and enchanting mechanics. weapons and armor should decay with use though, that just makes sense. When they get too bad sharpen them yourself or have someone skilled in crafting make it like new. I see items being mostly expendable with a few rarer exceptions.

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I want item breakage....It just needs to be reasonable, hard playing for 2 hours should not break an item...Hard playing for a few months should.  Items looted on death should have to be melted down for mats as well.  They should not be useable by my foe.  This will add even more to the crafters....

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Item decay is perfectly fine on use, so long as there is a reasonable repair freature.

 

Every crafted item should start with 100 durability, and each time it is repaired, depending on how damaged it was, it will lose a chunck of that maximum durability.

 

For example:

 

- 100/100 duribility to start

- 30/100 after use

- 90/90 after repairs

 

Durability loss through use should be slow. Items with a good repair schedule should last weeks.

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I want item breakage....It just needs to be reasonable, hard playing for 2 hours should not break an item...Hard playing for a few months should.  Items looted on death should have to be melted down for mats as well.  They should not be useable by my foe.  This will add even more to the crafters....

I feel like if someone kills me and takes my awesome stuff they deserve it more than me. However, permanent item breakage will only lead to me to wearing cheap items therefore never using crafter's cause who wants to buy an expensive crafted set when its just going to be dust soon enough no matter how good I am at the game and not dieing

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Can't have too much damage on death because the people who loot your body/inventory need to make use of all the free stuff :)

Can't have too much damage on death because the people who loot your body/inventory need to make use of all the free stuff :)

Was thinking more like eve where some is destroyed the rest can be looted

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I feel like if someone kills me and takes my awesome stuff they deserve it more than me. However, permanent item breakage will only lead to me to wearing cheap items therefore never using crafter's cause who wants to buy an expensive crafted set when its just going to be dust soon enough no matter how good I am at the game and not dieing

Still have to get cheap items from a crafter....Some things I think should be unique , like the thrall that can be crafted into the weapon.  If a weapon has a thrall the weapon should only be useable by the original owner.  It can still be melted down though.  During the melting process the Thrall escapes into the heavens and the raw mats are useable again, albeit some Mats are lost in the melting process.  This forces EVERYONE to support crafting if they want any gear at all.

Edited by nakawe

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