buhbuhcuh

Discomfort With Thralls

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Well as long as they get insurance, 2 weeks vacation, and are saved from a dying world / Sinking ship, I don't foresee much complaining from them.

 

Now back to work!

Only 2 weeks of vacation?

Next you will br telling me that is without pay.

 

What barbaric country is this based on?

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First things first, I tip my fedora to you. 

 

i__m_a_big_nerd_huh__by_supersonichero-d

(irl pic)

 

Secondly, you might (and that's a big might) be a little off base.

"Thrall", while the historical term for Norse slaves, really just refers to anyone in (as Merriam-Webster put it) moral or mental servitude. That said, we could actually be rescuing thralls from the hunger-infected worlds and bringing them to our EKs, in return for their fealty. 

 

Thirdly, the thralls are really just lines of computer code, and you need to get out of your first-world highchair and realize that the actual problem with slavery would not be its representation in video games but rather its continued existence in global society in the 21st century. Or something.

This mothercustarder right here. You win.

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It's a tr0ll thread wtf

No. If you check this kids twitter he's linking to Anita "NonProfit" Sarkeesian crap and espousing how he hasn't worked on any games that portray female tropes. This is a real deal tumblrina triggercaust of epic proportions.

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I was watching YouTube and I kept seeing this commercial for iZombie where she's eating brains... That was really gross, it kinda turned my stomach, the same way the cannibalism episodes in Walking Dead did where live people were eating people.

 

I think cannibalism is gross, and wrong, that doesn't mean we censor it from out fantasies and mediums. In walking dead it served as a villifying act, in iZombie, I don't care cause I don't find it interesting and it's gross, someone else can care about it.

 

Slavery is a part of human culture, its historically common place, and its a practical part of medieval fantasy. it doesn't have to be omitted and censored from fantasies just because it's primitive and criminal by modern standards. The Fae lore includes sexist infanticide as part of their identity, it makes for surreal and mature fantasy.

 

There's a place for kiddy standards and censorship, it belongs in kiddy games and educational material, not everywhere.

 

Servitude exist in every human culture even today, just because it is masked in a veneer of society and enforced by suppressed education and exportation doesn't mean it ever stopped being a staple of society. If you wanna get righteous about it, do something real, don't frustrate fantasy with misplaced social expectations.

 

Don't get me wrong. I don't mind if a game includes mature/taboo/racy stuff. What I have issue with is how it is dealt with.

 

Games are a unique media when it comes to the concept of choice and concequence. The "game loop" is all about "I make a decision, and now I have to deal with the result."  

 

So what is my problem here? That in there is no choice. There is one way to progress a hero and that is to force my thralls to do it*. I offered an alternative - make them more fictionally servants, but here is an even better alternative:

 

Let us choose! Find a thrall, bring it home, and you can choose to enslave it or to free it. If it is free, you can keep them on as an employee, but that has additional cost. Enslaved thralls might rebel occaisionally though. 

 

Then, let me raise my abolitionist army and go all John Brown on you slaver chumps.

 

 

 

*From the little info gleaned about partially designed systems**

**Which is kind of the whole point of this thread, to have input before they are fully designed.

 

*edit for PC on my use of profanity.

Edited by buhbuhcuh

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Ultimate Carebear thread.

 

We need to start a Carebear Thread Awards.

No need!  I win! I winnnnn!

 

 

Don't get me wrong. I don't mind if a game includes mature/taboo/racy stuff. What I have issue with is how it is dealt with.

 

Games are a unique media when it comes to the concept of choice and concequence. The "game loop" is all about "I make a decision, and now I have to deal with the result."  

 

So what is my problem here? That in there is no choice. There is one way to progress a hero and that is to force my thralls to do it*. I offered an alternative - make them more fictionally servants, but here is an even better alternative:

 

Let us choose! Find a thrall, bring it home, and you can choose to enslave it or to free it. If it is free, you can keep them on as an employee, but that has additional cost. Enslaved thralls might rebel occaisionally though. 

That actually sounds like a more fun mechanic then just the regular thrall setup.  If they're being used as vendors and they rebel they can start giving away their inventory.  Heh.

Edited by Oridi

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Well tbh, I agree with the OP to a point. Nowadays you can encounter all kind of weird poorly made socks in games and in media, that was not possible like 20 years ago. Back then everybody wanted to play a knight in shiny armor and was happy about it. Now people want slavery, cannibalism, torture and bum fawk. I am trying to remember a single morally ambiguous game from mid 90s and can not think of any. The craziest poorly made socks out there was Larry Laffer and Quake where you could gib opponents to pieces, but you always were the good guy !

Edited by rajah

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Well tbh, I agree with the OP to a point. Nowadays you can encounter all kind of weird poorly made socks in games and in media, that was not possible like 20 years ago. Back then everybody wanted to play a knight in shiny armor and was happy about it. Now people want slavery, cannibalism, torture and bum fawk. I am trying to remember a single morally ambiguous game from mid 90s and can not think of any. The craziest poorly made socks out there was Larry Laffer and Quake where you could gib opponents to pieces, but you always were the good guy !

I literally thought of one before i read the sentence to the end.

 

Carmaggedon

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Don't get me wrong. I don't mind if a game includes mature/taboo/racy stuff. What I have issue with is how it is dealt with.

 

Games are a unique media when it comes to the concept of choice and concequence. The "game loop" is all about "I make a decision, and now I have to deal with the result."

 

So what is my problem here? That in there is no choice. There is one way to progress a hero and that is to force my thralls to do it*. I offered an alternative - make them more fictionally servants, but here is an even better alternative:

 

Let us choose! Find a thrall, bring it home, and you can choose to enslave it or to free it. If it is free, you can keep them on as an employee, but that has additional cost. Enslaved thralls might rebel occaisionally though.

 

Then, let me raise my abolitionist army and go all John Brown on you slaver motherfuϲkers.

 

 

 

*From the little info gleaned about partially designed systems**

**Which is kind of the whole point of this thread, to have input before they are fully designed.

That's a horrible idea, because it redirects an inordinate amount of attention and detail to an auxiliary system designed for convenience.

 

Being a good ruler doesn't require freeing slaves, especially in an medieval setting, servitude and slavery are natural and accepted parts of ancient society, and they, like any form of servitude, can be practiced cruelly, or generously.

 

Your idea stretches the fantasy of the game and its boundaries just for social acceptance, overlooking that this is a supernatural arrangement of chosen warriors and deities which something basic like a thrall could not fight or deny.

 

Simpler solutions could be generated by simply stripping them of any identity or will and making them shades or ghasts of their mortal selves so they have no motive except obedience.

 

Any idea needs to run against the mill of quality gameplay, purpose and expectation, thrall behavior is not a selling point or attraction for this game, and shouldn't even be considered. That's something for Sims and Civilization.

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Well tbh, I agree with the OP to a point. Nowadays you can encounter all kind of weird poorly made socks in games and in media, that was not possible like 20 years ago. Back then everybody wanted to play a knight in shiny armor and was happy about it. Now people want slavery, cannibalism, torture and bum fawk. I am trying to remember a single morally ambiguous game from mid 90s and can not think of any. The craziest poorly made socks out there was Larry Laffer and Quake where you could gib opponents to pieces, but you always were the good guy !

In Dungeon Keeper (incredible game series) you were making every attempt to build a dungeon and kill the heroes. All the while training your baddies, slapping them around(literally), and giving them what they desired. This included smacking the succubus and putting her in the torture chamber because she was into that. Bask in the enlightenment. 

Edited by zach

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In Dungeon Master (incredible game series) you were making every attempt to build a dungeon and kill the heroes. All the while training your baddies, slapping them around(literally), and giving them what they desired. This included smacking the succubus and putting her in the torture chamber because she was into that. Bask in the enlightenment. 

DM had a humorous approach, its not the same 

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I literally thought of one before i read the sentence to the end.

 

Carmaggedon

"In many countries (including Germany and, for a short time, the UK), the first release of the game was censored. They contained zombies with green blood or robots with black oil instead of people"

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Don't get me wrong. I don't mind if a game includes mature/taboo/racy stuff. What I have issue with is how it is dealt with.

 

Games are a unique media when it comes to the concept of choice and concequence. The "game loop" is all about "I make a decision, and now I have to deal with the result."  

 

So what is my problem here? That in there is no choice. There is one way to progress a hero and that is to force my thralls to do it*. I offered an alternative - make them more fictionally servants, but here is an even better alternative:

 

Let us choose! Find a thrall, bring it home, and you can choose to enslave it or to free it. If it is free, you can keep them on as an employee, but that has additional cost. Enslaved thralls might rebel occaisionally though. 

 

Then, let me raise my abolitionist army and go all John Brown on you slaver chumps.

 

 

 

*From the little info gleaned about partially designed systems**

**Which is kind of the whole point of this thread, to have input before they are fully designed.

 

*edit for PC on my use of profanity.

 

Heh, now this sounds awesome. This isn't carebear, this is hardcore. You want to enslave heroic souls? You better be ready to deal with them fighting back. Want to free all the thralls? They aren't working for free.

 

I would suggest that enslavement require one type of resource while keeping them friendly after freeing them requires another type of resource.    

 

If you want to go even deeper there could be some special quests on certain Campaign Worlds where, for instance, a Master smith offers to become your willing thrall if you also bring her otherwise peon-level family as thralls to the forge with her. As long as you keep her basically useless family thralls around she has seriously discounted upkeep. 

 

Dimestore aka CopperStall (still deciding whether to adjust my usual alias to match the setting)

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Start a guild of abolitionists and bane the ek kingdoms that mistreat their thralls.

 

And then you set the thralls free, and they just keep standing there, and then you realize they are NPCs ;(

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