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Discomfort With Thralls

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When Thralls were first announced it was as part of the crafting system - you could use their souls as an ingredient to make a piece of gear unique. OK, that could be cool.

 

The last couple times I've seen them mentioned, they are also being used as NPCs that populate the EK, contributing to things such as Skill progression "Thrall Priests praying" and trade "'shopkeeper' Thralls."

 

So here is my problem. Thrall is a synonym for Slave, and in fact is derived from a norse term for slave.

 

So yeah, no thank you. I am not going to go to a dying world to bring back slaves for my personal paradise. 

 

Lets change that fiction. I'm happy to save people from the hunger and give them a refuge. I'm even happy for them to be a currency/resource sink that I need to maintain (aka pay). I am not happy about the idea that I somehow "own" them. You can take your Milgram experiment and go back home.

 

I realize this game is couched in feudal systems, and indentured servitude/ serfdom is historically accurate, but the cool thing about fiction is that we don't have to lean on exploitative social systems. Just like people can make fire come out of their hands and centaurs are a thing.

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200px-Thrall_WarCraft_Raneman.jpg?versio

 

I thought of this guy first but I would certainly think if this was seriously an issue they would have no problem changing it

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I'm guessing that you're morally opposed to playing the upcoming game, Human Resources, where you essentially use humans as (literal) fuel for massive, apocalyptic war machines?

 

It's fantasy; we can involve ourselves in actions and activities that we would find repugnant in real life. These are NPCs that we're talking about. You can imagine them as volunteering to work with you rather than dying with their world, if you prefer.

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200px-Thrall_WarCraft_Raneman.jpg?versio

 

I thought of this guy first but I would certainly think if this was seriously an issue they would have no problem changing it

Thrall choose to be called that to rember he was a slave

 

(Doh I read WoW lore)

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but the cool thing about fiction is that we don't have to lean on exploitative social systems.

 

So widespread acceptance of murdering people for their stuff is different how...?

 

Snark aside, I do agree with you somewhat. However, it sounds like the EK are basically going to be the afterlife, and we will be the ones who ferry the souls of the fallen there. The EK are pretty cushy, so I don't think thralls would be too upset to do some work for us.

Edited by txteclipse

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When Thralls were first announced it was as part of the crafting system - you could use their souls as an ingredient to make a piece of gear unique. OK, that could be cool.

 

....

 

Lets change that fiction. I'm happy to save people from the hunger and give them a refuge. I'm even happy for them to be a currency/resource sink that I need to maintain (aka pay). I am not happy about the idea that I somehow "own" them. You can take your Milgram experiment and go back home.

 

I realize this game is couched in feudal systems, and indentured servitude/ serfdom is historically accurate, but the cool thing about fiction is that we don't have to lean on exploitative social systems. Just like people can make fire come out of their hands and centaurs are a thing.

 

So you're ok with binding someone's soul into an item, essentially trapping them for your use.  But you're not ok with the idea of "owning" them and making them farm your land?

 

wut.

 

Also, fiction.

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Or they can be "Enthralled" with your victory in the dying world and choose to join your company as a Thrall. 

 

Someone who is captivated by something is considered Enthralled or a Thrall.

 

Open your minds, think outside of a google search on the term. 

Edited by Vitality

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What if they are happy being in your eternal kingdom because if they stayed it would have been oblivion or worse. You saved them

Edited by oberon

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I came to this thread expecting to say "lighten up", but the OP makes some legitimate points.  I don't recommend getting rid of thralls, but I do recommend careful consideration of how the thralls are depicted.  It feels like it could become over-dark very quickly.

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I dunno. If I was on a world being literally eaten by some incomprehensible otherworldly force, some immortal showing up and offering to save my soul in return for me running a sweet-ass inn back on his homeworld, I'd be first in line to sign up for indentured servitude.

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Why the objection to thralls/slaves in particular?  This game is undoubtedly going to involve quite a bit of solving problems with violence.  Is that ok?

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So you're ok with binding someone's soul into an item, essentially trapping them for your use.  But you're not ok with the idea of "owning" them and making them farm your land?

 

wut.

 

Also, fiction.

It might be the same thing, depending on your beliefs on souls. For me, a "soul" is as equivalent say, a thigh bone. It's kind of cool to think of making a weapon out of your enemy's bones. Now, if you happen to be more religous and think that the soul is the immortal aspect of a person, then yeah, you should have a problem with that too.

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So widespread acceptance of murdering people for their stuff is different how...?

 

Maybe it is my cultural conditioning, but I'm not looking to "murder" people, nor do the game mechanics force it for progression (although they may encourage it). My headcannon for the game is that I'm fighting a war, defending my allies from those who would destroy us and our way of life. My playstyle encourages this as I usually play support roles and don't roll the Assassin archetypes.

 

Right now, it appears that you litterally can not progress in the game without using Thralls.

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I find it deeply disturbing that people are offended by this sort thing. Even if they are basically slaves, which in fact we don't know yet, what kind of bigoted hypocrite must you be to get upset about this, of all things, and then proceed to -kill- and -maim- hordes of, supposedly, your fellow man with joyful glee in every other game you pick up.

Edited by Mookzen

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So you're ok with killing people, stealing their stuff, destroying their homes and laying waste to their bases but you're not ok with having slaves?

^This was my first reaction to your post.  But then I remembered this http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Astrialla/122009/5277_The-New-Improved-InGame-You-or-What-Survives-Past-The-Login-Window and realized that for me, ingame actions done directly to players are different than actions done to NPC's.  If you were bringing back other players to your castle as thralls it would be one thing.  Bringing back NPC's however is a different kettle of fish.

 

To make things more complicated/less clear/infinitely Oridi, I then challenged my own lil self and thought about how I'd feel if there was a r.a.p.e. option that you could use on NPC's in the game.  Just an emote. And it's sort of a side thing embedded into the game.  I'd be upset to tell the truth.  It would bother me greatly and it would impact my enjoyment of the game. Even if I never used it, even if I never saw it used, I'd know that the devs chose to put it there and it would color everything.

 

So I can see your point of view.  I don't think "slave" when I see the word thrall, I think of someone more possessed.  But you're right, the word does mean slave and it's worth taking a look at what some other options might be to call them.

 

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When Thralls were first announced it was as part of the crafting system - you could use their souls as an ingredient to make a piece of gear unique. OK, that could be cool.

 

The last couple times I've seen them mentioned, they are also being used as NPCs that populate the EK, contributing to things such as Skill progression "Thrall Priests praying" and trade "'shopkeeper' Thralls."

 

So here is my problem. Thrall is a synonym for Slave, and in fact is derived from a norse term for slave.

 

So yeah, no thank you. I am not going to go to a dying world to bring back slaves for my personal paradise. 

 

Lets change that fiction. I'm happy to save people from the hunger and give them a refuge. I'm even happy for them to be a currency/resource sink that I need to maintain (aka pay). I am not happy about the idea that I somehow "own" them. You can take your Milgram experiment and go back home.

 

I realize this game is couched in feudal systems, and indentured servitude/ serfdom is historically accurate, but the cool thing about fiction is that we don't have to lean on exploitative social systems. Just like people can make fire come out of their hands and centaurs are a thing.

 

And What's awesome about games like this, is that it is all fantasy. No one is actually being enslaved, and there are a ton of players that using slaves fit their playstyle. I know a lot of people who prefer to play the "evil" side. Games like Dragon Age, and Kotor show us that people have VERY different moral ideas. My point being, call them thralls or servants... it doesn't Matter, perhaps they are treated differently by each of the three major factions, for some maybe they are slaves, and others they are grateful volunteers.

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