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Kyro

Will There Be Any Pve Campaigns?

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You could not be more wrong on Shadowbane, speaking in ignorance isn't pretty. 

I don't speak from ignorance, i speak from MY experience in SB, playing on the server that i played on (it's been a long time, so i don't remember the name, i believe it would have been the RP server, Mourning i think).  

 

And basically all the guilds that were busy doing alliances, upholding treaties, having feuds, betraying each other, etc.  All of them just got wiped by a horde of players that weren't interested in building anything or risking anything.  They would come out and destroy a city that took ages to build and they would risk absolutely nothing in the process, since they had nothing of their own that could be destroyed in turn.    And they weren't doing for their god, for the throne or for alliances.  They were doing it because they were bored and they could. 

 

I'm glad that you had a different experience on your server and that it didn't leave you with a sour taste.  I too had many good experiences in Shadowbane, which is part of the reason why I became a CF backer on Day 1.   But all those good experiences were basically for nothing, because the game lacked any macro controls that protected the sort of gameplay that the developers envision with that poster.  I seriously hope that the developers of CF have learned from it and even if they once again fail to build in proper self-controls, that they'll at least have the balls to step in and stop any kind of emergent behaviour that takes the game in the opposite direction from their vision.

 

Emergent gameplay is fantastic, but if it's taking your game in the wrong direction, you need to step in.

Edited by arieste

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Emergent gameplay is fantastic, but if it's taking your game in the wrong direction, you need to step in.

 

Considering their vision is players fighting and competing with one another all the time, how could emergent gameplay take it in a different direction? If a group of players decide to pillage and burn "just because", that pretty well still fits the Crowfall vision. 

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I didn't actually read this thread, but a ruleset where the only objective is to not starve to death (or whatever) would actually be kind of cool. Start it like DayZ, where food (or some other arbitrary resource) is plentiful, and the monsters out in the world are relatively benign. Convert any dead players into zombies, and start ramping up the threat level (and crank back the available resources) over time, until the campaign ends with a few groups huddled behind fortresses as the swarm beats on their wall.

 

There you go, you have a PvE-heavy campaign without removing player conflict.


 

 

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And basically all the guilds that were busy doing alliances, upholding treaties, having feuds, betraying each other, etc.  All of them just got wiped by a horde of players that weren't interested in building anything or risking anything.  They would come out and destroy a city that took ages to build and they would risk absolutely nothing in the process, since they had nothing of their own that could be destroyed in turn.  

 

This is not how I expirienced the game. Just FYI - you had to have access to fairly built-up city to even get your hands on a rock to drop.

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Tipical, someone say PvE and all the PvP trolls star arguing, disqualifying and crying. But the true is that there is no law against PvE in a PvP game, or PvP in a PvE game. Player versus Environment will be part of this game as soon as the developers consider it adequate. For me, PvP along PvE, is like an ice cream with two flavors...

 

There is no need to start complaining just because someone doesn't consider PvP as the unique and absolute force in MMO industry.

Not everyone think the same, theres a lot of players (including me) and I really mean A LOT, that prefer PvE instead PvP, and that doesn't means that I'll not enjoy this game just because it center on PvP.

 

So... if I don't find any reason why I shouldn't coexist with PvPers, because they are human beings just like me who enjoy the game the same, I don't see why PvPers shouldn't do the same with those who prefers a nice quest instead.

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I don't speak from ignorance, i speak from MY experience in SB, playing on the server that i played on (it's been a long time, so i don't remember the name, i believe it would have been the RP server, Mourning i think).  

 

And basically all the guilds that were busy doing alliances, upholding treaties, having feuds, betraying each other, etc.  All of them just got wiped by a horde of players that weren't interested in building anything or risking anything.  They would come out and destroy a city that took ages to build and they would risk absolutely nothing in the process, since they had nothing of their own that could be destroyed in turn.    And they weren't doing for their god, for the throne or for alliances.  They were doing it because they were bored and they could. 

 

I'm glad that you had a different experience on your server and that it didn't leave you with a sour taste.  I too had many good experiences in Shadowbane, which is part of the reason why I became a CF backer on Day 1.   But all those good experiences were basically for nothing, because the game lacked any macro controls that protected the sort of gameplay that the developers envision with that poster.  I seriously hope that the developers of CF have learned from it and even if they once again fail to build in proper self-controls, that they'll at least have the balls to step in and stop any kind of emergent behaviour that takes the game in the opposite direction from their vision.

 

Emergent gameplay is fantastic, but if it's taking your game in the wrong direction, you need to step in.

 

hello...i'm from Mourning

 

and i was probably involved in the activity you are lamenting, if indeed it was the "RP" server you were on....

 

allow me to assure you...we risked Assets, almost always more than what we were attacking, i'm sorry if you could not always easily identify the important ones...all part of the Game, yes?

 

as for your last line, as a Player only here....of course you can speak up as you like....but do remember others who disagree with you can and will as well, all part and parcel of general Discussion, eh?


FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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...the RP server, Mourning....  

 

And basically all the guilds that were busy doing alliances, upholding treaties, having feuds, betraying each other, etc.  All of them just got wiped by a horde of players that weren't interested in building anything or risking anything.  They would come out and destroy a city that took ages to build and they would risk absolutely nothing in the process, since they had nothing of their own that could be destroyed in turn.   

 

 

 

I played Mourning for years and followed the political discussions of the other serves and I remember no such thing ever happening.

Edited by BraveSirRobin

 

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Sounds like a group of players were role-playing as a barbarian/viking guild, which I can understand RP victims in their wake would consider that anti-RP... when it is still RP, just a bit more intense PvP RP.


> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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I wasn't aware that rollplayaz knew how to drop rocks. You probably had to spend couple hours LARPing to establish the ambidience where it would be allowable.

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Sounds like a group of players were role-playing as a barbarian/viking guild, which I can understand RP victims in their wake would consider that anti-RP... when it is still RP, just a bit more intense PvP RP.

 

actually we were semi-mocking the RPers by role playing flaming, cross dressing, former Los Angeles hair stylists now cloth wearing Casters called the Order of the Pink Pansies

 

but that's another Story....


FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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This is not how I expirienced the game. Just FYI - you had to have access to fairly built-up city to even get your hands on a rock to drop.

 

There were workarounds to this apparently.  Basically these people would log in, attack, destroy, log out.  And there was nothing for us to attack back or take from them in return.. would be a bare tree (it was a tree, wasn't it?)   The point was, they weren't doing it for any of the wonderful-sounding reasons on that fancy poster.  They weren't winning a throne, building an empire or a kingdom.  And them doign it, was just to destroy everyone else's ability to do all the things mentioned on that poster.   

 

It was like 30 MMOs ago for me, so i apologize if i don't remember the exact mechanics.  Maybe it was fixed or adjusted at some point.  IIRC, I only played SB for like 6 months or so.  It started out very promising, but just degenerated into something pointless.

 

I am not looking for a game where people fight for the sake of fighting.  For that, there are much better genres - fighting games, FPS games, strategy games and even sports games.  If i just want to fight for no reason, i play those.   The whole point of bothering with all this world-building, lore, etc.  is so that people fight for a (fictionally) realistic reason - like those mentioned on that poster/email - if those things actually end up being the majority of what goes on in CF, i'll be very happy with it.

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 I only played SB for like 6 months or so.  It started out very promising, but just degenerated into something pointless.

Some of us are trying to nudge Crowfall in such a way that we won't be faced with the same situation.


eEvERiW.jpg

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I am not looking for a game where people fight for the sake of fighting.  For that, there are much better genres - fighting games, FPS games, strategy games and even sports games.  If i just want to fight for no reason, i play those.

 

I can't speak for others, especially ArtCraft, but I am here for the game "where people fight for the sake of fighting". In my epxirience, permancne of MMO adds political and strategic element to fighting that cannot be duplicated in other styles of games.

 

As to my reason for fighting? To get to the other side.

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Some of us are trying to nudge Crowfall in such a way that we won't be faced with the same situation.

 

and many of us never seem to have had the problems others have had apparently

 

after those first few months of horribad lag/sb.exe and such, there were quite a few great years of Game....very sorry some of you all seem to have missed it

 

but at least we are all looking forward to seeing what's coming Next, eh?

 

you know...so we can kill each other in Game.....a lot....i mean many times over a long period kind of lot...

 

you know...a big pile of killing...


FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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Some of us are trying to nudge Crowfall in such a way that we won't be faced with the same situation.

Ok, here we go again.   Voxel farm is being used primarily for the destructibility mechanism it provides.   YOU want to build, have resigned yourself you might have to do your building in the campaigns.   By building there you are assuming the risk that it is GOING to be destroyed.  So you want players to have to apply for demolition permits?  You may never consider a reason good enough to knock your poorly made socks down.   And there is some merit to the idea of NOT allowing anyone to build anything up to strongly.  Get it down before it is too strong.  


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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"Allies, Enemies, Alliance, Risk, Betrayal, Conquest".

 

Wasn't this also the vision for shadowbane?  The reality was that it was full of people that did not care about a) Allies, B) Enemies, c) Alliances, d) Betrayal e) Conquest and d) The Throne.  Instead, all they did was destroy everything, conquer nothing - all for no reason whatsoever other than because it was what they felt like doing.  And what allowed it all to happen was the absence of risk - these "murderous hordes" if you will risked absolutely nothing when they came out and wrought chaos for no reason. 

 

So yeah, it all sounds fantastic on paper, but i would need to see the controls in place before believe that it'll actually happen.  If there is no risk of loss and there are no built-in consequences for behaviour that is detrimental to the type of world that is being built by the DEVs, then it's all for nothing.   Because the amount of dumb and inconsiderate people who couldn't care less about all the nice things on that poster is legion.

 

You are very wrong, Alles, Enemies, Alliances, Betrayal and Conquest were the focus for many players in Shadowbane. The politics in the game (and on the forum) was one of the most important (for me the most important) part of the game. Only a few players were in game just for doing pvp just for the fun


Se un uomo non è disposto a lottare per le proprie idee, o le sue idee non valgono nulla o non vale nulla lui. EZRA POUND

 

MEMENTO AUDERE SEMPER

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and many of us never seem to have had the problems others have had apparently

 

after those first few months of horribad lag/sb.exe and such, there were quite a few great years of Game....very sorry some of you all seem to have missed it

 

but at least we are all looking forward to seeing what's coming Next, eh?

 

you know...so we can kill each other in Game.....a lot....i mean many times over a long period kind of lot...

 

you know...a big pile of killing...

 

Yeah, I guess 6 six years is respectable enough, even if only the first couple years was it's 'peak'. ENough people seemed to have enough of a problem that it started going downhill after less than a year. And while I know software reliability is important, if the game is fun enough, people will stick around. But that's all neither here nor there. Some of us are interested in the dev's stated goal to have MORE than just 'piles of killing' in Crowfall.


eEvERiW.jpg

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Ok, here we go again.   Voxel farm is being used primarily for the destructibility mechanism it provides.   YOU want to build, have resigned yourself you might have to do your building in the campaigns.   By building there you are assuming the risk that it is GOING to be destroyed.  So you want players to have to apply for demolition permits?  You may never consider a reason good enough to knock your poorly made socks down.   And there is some merit to the idea of NOT allowing anyone to build anything up to strongly.  Get it down before it is too strong.  

Uhh... not sure where this came from. I've never believed building IN CROWFALL would be like Landmark. I didn't even WANT it. I was referring to the time-limited 'fun' he had in SB and how I'd like to see the 'fun' in CF last a lot longer.


eEvERiW.jpg

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Yeah, I guess 6 six years is respectable enough, even if only the first couple years was it's 'peak'. ENough people seemed to have enough of a problem that it started going downhill after less than a year. And while I know software reliability is important, if the game is fun enough, people will stick around. But that's all neither here nor there. Some of us are interested in the dev's stated goal to have MORE than just 'piles of killing' in Crowfall.

 

and my Hope here is that you, and those others who seek various Goals....get a lot of what you want

 

as long as it doesn't interfere with mah piles of bodies too much...

 

i mean, i need to get the pointy things somewhere, right? so i encourage Crafting...it's always been my assertion that in a good Game, the BEST gear is ALWAYS Player made...not epic purplez drops from "raids" and the like...but from a Player made and driven Economy

 

imo, EVE and Shadowbane got more of it Right than any other environments i can think of...

 

your mileage may vary.....and watch you don't get anything on yer boots from the corpses....

 

EDIT: "time limited" ? 

 

again...since i vehemently disagree that the "best" time in SB was that first year...it was AWESOME, but everything after that was also pretty damn awesome and better than anything i've tried since....your use of "limited" is to giggle about for any who you know...stuck around and Played the Game...

Edited by Doc Gonzo

FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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