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guarrand

Telegraphs... Why Are People Against Them?

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They have an entire FAQ page dedicated to explaining combat.

 

They have a concept video showing the combat

 

And you guys think they are going to rework the entire thing? Uhm... No.

 

17000 backers supported Crowfall in part because of what it was promising

 

Significantly altering the combat would be the equivalent of replacing the entire dying worlds concept.

 

Man I really wish ACE would just respond so we can put this to rest

 

Subject to change 

 

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/3616-why-havent-you-backed-yet/?p=99887

Edited by Hax

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They have an entire FAQ page dedicated to explaining combat.

 

They have a concept video showing the combat

 

And you guys think they are going to rework the entire thing? Uhm... No.

 

17000 backers supported Crowfall in part because of what it was promising

 

Significantly altering the combat would be the equivalent of replacing the entire dying worlds concept.

 

Man I really wish ACE would just respond so we can put this to rest

Pre-Alpha. Two Years until launch Window. But no you're right everything is set in stone, nothing will change...

 

and they have responded already and guess what they said? Things will change. (see link above)

Edited by pang

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Pre-Alpha. Two Years until launch Window. But no you're right everything is set in stone, nothing will change...

 

and they have responded already and guess what they said? Things will change. (see link above)

 

Obviously things will change. But the concept, overarching theme, should not. IE It should not go to a tab targeting system ala WoW. It should not go to first person shooter style ala Dark Fall/Planetside.


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Sorry I didn't make a new thread already, it really needs to happen, but I'm just tired of reviewing the same material. If someone else does, I'll just say the OP needs references and quotes from the team for framework, as well as screen shots and links to the Crowfall demo and how other games treat telegraphs.

 

Most of all the explanation of animated tells vs color shape and ground telegraphs needs to be in the OP, why they are not optional, and plain explanations without expounding personal preference.

 

Beyond that, stop making yourselves look like fools by negotiating with fools, respond only to thoughtful remarks, and ignore Evade even if he replies directly to your statement. Your being weak and easily manipulated when you get into dialogue with someone that has nothing but misplaced certainty and absurdly slow recognition to debate with.

 

Don't do it, every time you hit quote or begin to reply to him, smack yourself in the face and say, gee, I'm an idiot. Galvanized fools deserve no more than 3 responses, and even those are mostly for the benefit of other readers, not the fool themselves.

 

Forum pollution stops with you, don't respond to dumb sh!t, write around the idiot to meaningful responses, and create a better environment of conversation. Evade can't change, the rest of you... Well Sheen can't change either, the rest of you can fix this by being responsible. Don't do it, just don't... Really, don't do it. Nope, stop, don't, good. Aaahp! I said stop! See, the world is better.

 

Once you stop taking bait, your life will be richer with meaningful and productive conversations, I mean just look at how much effort was wasted arguing fundamental information when you could have been having deep discussions about possibilities and how features should actually be challenged... The waisted attention feels neglected, and abused,shame on you for wasting all that potential effort :(

Edited by BahamutKaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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They have an entire FAQ page dedicated to explaining combat.

 

They have a concept video showing the combat

 

And you guys think they are going to rework the entire thing? Uhm... No.

 

17000 backers supported Crowfall in part because of what it was promising

 

Significantly altering the combat would be the equivalent of replacing the entire dying worlds concept.

 

Man I really wish ACE would just respond so we can put this to rest

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2628-wildstar-action-combat/page-5#entry69249

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2628-wildstar-action-combat/page-8#entry69785

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/3186-my-issue-with-certain-tera-combat-mechanics/page-5#entry83678

 

3 posts by 3 different developers who all confirmed that they are going for TERA-style combat.

 

Feel free to admit that you are wrong.


7ug90hM.png


 


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If we are doing tab targeting then we don't need telegraphs.

 

If we are playing a first person shooter/reticule based twitch game such as Planetside or Dark Fall then we don't need telegraphs.

 

If dodging attacks is simply a stat with a computer generated dice roll for hit or miss, we don't need telegraphs.

 

If dodging an attack is skill based however, we either need some sort of indicator they are coming or the attacks are slow enough (animation lock?) that a person can react and dodge in time. With lag, that means the average attack must take 2-4 seconds to hit the player after indication is given if that player wants any chance of getting out of the way.

 

This indicator can be an animation, a particle effect, a shadow or all of the above.

 

This thread is essentially 25 pages of people arguing about what sort of indicator we want. Personally, I believe the best indicator is a shadow as it provides the most accurate information while using the least amount of computing power.

 

A lot of these arguments are nonsense, like;

 

"telegraphs dumb the game down". Those people make the mistake that animations are some how different than telegraphs. They also don't understand that while animations may work great in single player or small 5v5 pvp games, they would not work in large scale 40 vs 40+ PVP.

 

You'll also see a lot of "Telegraphs clutter up the battlefield". None of those players provide an alternative. If 80 people are casting abilities in a given area, that is a crap ton of indicators whether its 80 shadows or 80 meteors falling. Few ever look far enough to see that end however. They just stop at telegraphs clutter up the battlefield.

 

I'm sure the Dev's are having an extremely difficult time figuring out how not to be a tab target game while at the same time, make abilities dodgeable by providing a feasible indicator for large scale PvP. Sad thing is, they already had it.

 

Well if a ACE Dev is reading this, please allow a video option for those of us who would rather see a shadow instead of a meteor.

 

Best of both worlds

Look. You are making it seem like indicators of any sort actually matter when you get to large scale pvp. Telegraphs are meaningless at that point because all they are doing is painting the ground. Animations are meaningless to a degree because you have that many people on your screen you can't keep track of them all. Unless you are fighting an isolated fight. And you certainly aren't going to see a "shadow" with that many people.

 

I would rather animations that I can at least distinguish here and there, rather than telegraphs continuously overlapping each other and not giving any meaningful information at all at those numbers.

Edited by vunak

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Welcome to the party

 

Combat has certain elements that are similar to Wildstar (our movement includes things sprints, dashes, and double jumps) and other elements that are similar to TERA (combo attacks that have short “locked” animation sequences – chains which you can opt to continue or break, for a cost.)

 

 

It's been known for a long time combat would be similar to Tera. It will also have elements of Wildstar

Edited by Evade2015

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Obviously things will change. But the concept, overarching theme, should not. IE It should not go to a tab targeting system ala WoW. It should not go to first person shooter style ala Dark Fall/Planetside.

 

A few days ago on the Crowns and Crows podcast Todd, Gordon, and Thomas talked at length about their ideas for combat. I'm not at home so I can't link you to the exact time in the video but it's about halfway through if someone wants to link it for me. Here's the full video but I can't find the exact spot where combat discussion starts until I get home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcigy2eD9Jw

Edited by leiloni

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I would rather animations that I can at least distinguish here and there, rather than telegraphs continuously overlapping each other and not giving any meaningful information at all at those numbers.

 

Hmm, can you please explain what this means a little more. You mean like.. for example,  only one meteor will show even if 40 people cast meteor


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A few days ago on the Crowns and Crows podcast they talked at length about their ideas for combat. I'm not at home so I can't link you to the exact time in the video but it's about halfway through if someone wants to link it for me.

 

Crowns and Crows are just 3 gamers having a conversation and speculating. They know as much as you and I

Edited by Evade2015

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Crowns and Crows are just 3 gamers having a conversation and speculating. They know as much as you and I

 

They did an interview with Todd, Gordon, and Thomas a few days ago. I linked it for you. You can watch the devs themselves giving you their most recent thoughts on the subject (as of last Thursday).

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They did an interview with Todd, Gordon, and Thomas a few days ago. I linked it for you. You can watch the devs themselves giving you their most recent thoughts on the subject (as of last Thursday).

Stop spoon feeding him, he's willfully ignorant, just abandon him...


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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They did an interview with Todd, Gordon, and Thomas a few days ago. I linked it for you. You can watch the devs themselves giving you their most recent thoughts on the subject (as of last Thursday).

 

So watched the whole thing.. Wow... Draegen is a huge Tera fan boy and his question was totally loaded

 

"I dont consider Wildstar to be a combat based system. Would you consider using Tera instead of Wildstar"?

 

Then a few minutes later

 

"I recommend everyone go play Tera"

 

Oh god and he continues...

 

"Biggest part about Tera combat I like is the animation of the telegraph and not just blobs on the ground"

 

Then the Dev replies "yea tera has a red flash and the mobs were really big"

 

Typical of what we see in this thread. Ideas that just won't work in large scale pvp that is not tab targeting

 

Maybe Draegen is new to interviewing people, but one of the main rules is not to interject your opinion immediately before asking the question.

 

For example

 

I think abortion is the killing of unborn babies and any woman who has an abortion should be tried for murder. Tell me, what is your view on Abortion!? Uhm... I'm against?

 

Government should not be allowed to control a woman's body. It is her right to choose when to have a baby. Tell me, do you support Government impeding on a woman's right?! Uhm... I'm against it?

Edited by Evade2015

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OK hold up hold up..

 

You people idolizing TERA... .. i just checked it out and yoiu are seriously considering THIS as reference for CF??

tera_castanics_archer_by_tsuyokizu-d51aw

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA...

omg... you lost all credibility sorry... i didnt know this forum had so many horny 12 year olds :D

 

I'll just take my leave from my own thread now.. it was funny.. thanks.

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People discussing TERA are discussing the combat only (since that's the topic we are all discussing...) and in that podcast he made a point to make it clear he thought the rest of the game was lacking in many ways. I guess you guys don't have any other arguments at this point.

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I played Tera last year. Thought it was super crappy but I've decided to redownload it and give it another chance this time focusing entirely on the combat system. Download is taking forever

Edited by Evade2015

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Hey! 

 

So as we've said in interviews, livestreams and even on these forums multiple times over: We are doing a lot of research and development with our combat system. There will be significant changes, but the goal remains the same = Action, skill based combat. 

 

Things like telegraphs were an early experiment we were toying with. It might be that they never see the light of day as there are elements about them we aren't fond of. They also do not jive well with certain aspects of the game that we are striving for. 

 

We've thrown the name "TERA" out there as a point of reference but that doesn't mean we are going to copy the combat exactly. That would be bad for a multitude of reasons, but there are good lessons by observing that title and is more aligned with the direction we want to go, instead of Wildstar. 

 

Also, you need to start looking at aspects of games in a vacuum. Not EVERYTHING in a game has to be tarred with the same brush. There are bad games with great systems, and amazing games with bad systems. 


Tully Ackland

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc. 

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

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Hey! 

 

So as we've said in interviews, livestreams and even on these forums multiple times over: We are doing a lot of research and development with our combat system. There will be significant changes, but the goal remains the same = Action, skill based combat. 

 

Things like telegraphs were an early experiment we were toying with. It might be that they never see the light of day as there are elements about them we aren't fond of. They also do not jive well with certain aspects of the game that we are striving for. 

 

We've thrown the name "TERA" out there as a point of reference but that doesn't mean we are going to copy the combat exactly. That would be bad for a multitude of reasons, but there are good lessons by observing that title and is more aligned with the direction we want to go, instead of Wildstar. 

 

Also, you need to start looking at aspects of games in a vacuum. Not EVERYTHING in a game has to be tarnished with the same brush. There are bad games with great systems, and amazing games with bad systems. 

 

While I'm slightly disappointed, I appreciate the clarification


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