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MattVid

Change Promotion Class

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I had a question on these statements in the FAQ:

Can I change my Promotion Class later? 

No. There are a few changes that are permanent, and this is one of them. Choose carefully. 

 

What does a promotion class grant? 

In almost all cases the promotion class increases your skill maximums on all relevant skills. This enables the player to train their skills deeper into a chosen path, becoming a master at what they do.

 

Most of the time promotion also grants new powers to use in combat and extends the awesomeness of existing powers.

Sometimes promotion will grant a new weapon that can be used along with skills and powers that accompany it. Such as a melee class gaining the ability to use a bow and the skills that accompany bow usage. 

 

Promotion also offers the character a final chance to alter any of their advantages and disadvantages. At this point we think the player fully understands what would be useful to their character as a permanent choice.

 

I am glad to see that the choices made a character creation can be changed when promoting your class. This was a large worry of mine, as you are entering the game with little or no knowledge of how to actually build a character.

 

However, I don't see how the promotion class choice is much different than when making choices at character creation. Sure, you know about your class, and how you might want to play it, but you have zero information on what each promotion class will feel like until you play it.

 

There is mention of granting new weapon unlocks as well as new skills. How are we supposed to know how these skills work exactly, before locking our character into it forever?

 

Lets pretend that the Knight base archetype only has access to the sword and board for weaponry to start with. For promotion, he can choose to go Sentinel, and that grants him the skills necessary to use bows. Now all of a sudden, the class has changed direction dramatically. How are we supposed to know what we are getting ourselves into on this permanent choice?

 

Specifics such as, ok, so now I can use a bow and sword/shield. How much of the time will I be needing each? Is my class going to completely change gears to more ranged focus? How will I know exactly what advantages/disadvantages I would want if I don't know this from playing it?

 

I hope there might be some series of small quests (oh, the horror, I know!) or a place to test out the promotion classes before you actually choose one to lock into. Right now, it looks like the same kind of "diving into the unknown" that character creation has when choosing advantages and disadvantages.

 

Thoughts? Speculation? Comments?


Vidrak - Member of


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If they don't provide a detailed explanation of how each promotion affects the archetype, then shame on ACE. If you as the player don't do the research about how the promotions affect the archtype, then shame on you.


"But above all do not bind the anus all that there is congenial to your vision of paradise staff" - leonelion

 

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If they don't provide a detailed explanation of how each promotion affects the archetype, then shame on ACE. 

 

 

To add on to this, regardless of whether they give any further information or not, by the time the NDA drops this will all be known either from the actual testers or from data mining, so you can make a more informed decision by searching it out. 

 

 

I would expect it to work similar to the vast amount of other MMOs which have had a highly similar system - where you get a block of information before finalizing your choice, if not the ability to try the promotion out before finalizing it. I remember playing a MMO once where you got a quest for your promotion which gave you temporary access to all of the new skills/weapons/etc. that you'd get, just to complete that quest. At the end it asked if you were sure you wanted to promote to that class, and if you said otherwise you could do the quest in order to try out other classes. Can't remember the name of the game, but I always loved that system. 


Currently Playing - Dirty Bomb, Archeage, & Skyforge


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This is why we have Wikis.....

 

interesting without taking into account Discipline Rune's Archetype/Promo/Disc restrictions:

 

12 Archetypes times 3 Promotions classes per equals

36 Promotions Classes who can take up to three Disc Runes of

21 Discipline Runes possibilities (That we know of, they have have stated there will be lots)

 

36*21*20*19 = 287,280 is a lot of combinations

 

Even with lots of restrictions we can expect to see 2 or 3 times the number of promotion classes currently revealed. So this number will always be astronomically high. Granted some time it mean the only difference between you and another character is you have a falcon and they turn into a rat, but hey, don't falcons eat rats...   


Crowfall: The Official Game of

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If you as the player don't do the research about how the promotions affect the archtype, then shame on you.

This is exactly the point I am trying to make. You shouldn't have to go do research outside of the game to make a choice about YOUR character. You should have the appropriate information at the time to make the choice. And considering that the choice still has to be made, without being able to even try it out, it is still somewhat of a gamble.


Vidrak - Member of


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This is why we have Wikis.....

 

interesting without taking into account Discipline Rune's Archetype/Promo/Disc restrictions:

 

12 Archetypes times 3 Promotions classes per equals

36 Promotions Classes who can take up to three Disc Runes of

21 Discipline Runes possibilities (That we know of, they have have stated there will be lots)

 

36*21*20*19 = 287,280 is a lot of combinations

 

Even with lots of restrictions we can expect to see 2 or 3 times the number of promotion classes currently revealed. So this number will always be astronomically high. Granted some time it mean the only difference between you and another character is you have a falcon and they turn into a rat, but hey, don't falcons eat rats...   

Disciplines are simply runes that you can swap out whenever you want, it is not a permanent choice. The promotion class, however, is a permanent lock on your character. That is what I am getting at.


Vidrak - Member of


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You can always delete your character and make a new one. 

Thank you, captain obvious. I realize this. However, designing a game around making arbitrary choices, only to force you to delete your character and start anew ... all while charging for your time, is not a great design decision, IMO. That is why I created this thread, as the option should not be "delete your character you have invested time in, to fix a choice for which you didn't have sufficient information about at the time you were forced to make it."


Vidrak - Member of


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They did also say they want you to be able to make mistakes.
(Keep in mind, I did make an entire thread about the possibility of being able to respec while in the Eternal Kingdoms)

Personally I don't like that your advantages/disadvantages can't be changed at least once post-promotion. It sounds like promotions add a lot to your character. Far too much to be locked in immediately after it's chosen.

I prefer the idea of being able to try before you buy. Try each promotion class, see how it fits, try a few new advantages/disadvantages post promotion, etc.

Edited by Tyroki

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You have zero information on what each promotion class archetype will feel like until you play it. You look at the website, you read gameplay reports or watch videos, or maybe you just make a choice blind. If you make a Legionnaire and discover that you hate staring at the hind end of a horse for hours on end, what options do you have? Delete and reroll.

 

Promotion classes are exactly the same scenario. Make your best guess based on the information available to you, and if you don't like it then scrap it.


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Safe to assume there will be enough info in game as well as on their website prior to launch to make a good choice. I doubt they would just give us a list of three classes to pick and thats it.

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They did also say they want you to be able to make mistakes.

Mistakes are different than wasted hours into a character.

Going "Oops I put an extra point in DEX when the meta usually goes STR" is different from "Wait I can't use fireballs anymore? This isn't even the class I signed up for!"

That would really suck.

 

But I think after alpha, beta, wikis, youtube, and forum information is compiled the severity of this speculation will be completely mitigated.

 

Also I wouldn't be against a gold sink of "reset your stats" (actually pretty common in MMOs) or even a cash-shop feature for it.

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Can I change my Promotion Class later? 

No. There are a few changes that are permanent, and this is one of them. Choose carefully. 

 

Does this really promote fun?

 

I can see locking in a choice during a single Campaign.  That makes sense.  But what if players were given an option to switch Promotion Class when they start a new Campaign?

 

 

 


Nazdar

Proud member of The Hunger

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Actually the character creation screen contains a link to the respective Promotion Class information, in the top right.

 

Crowfall_CharacterCreate_runes.jpg

 

You cannot choose them at creation, so it is safe to assume that link will lead to a screen which lists the Promotion Classes and gives some details, much as the Advantage and Disadvantage runes do.

Edited by Anthrage

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They're trying really hard to push less respeccing and alt abuse. Allowing a fundamental shift like this per campaign would lead to a lot more apex predator syndrome in rulesets where one disc might have a disadvantage, for instance if you want to do a world where magic is less effective, you'd basically be required to respec out of the MDPS heavy confessor spec.

 

Think about promotion classes as actual character classes rather than enhancements. This was essentially how Shadowbane worked. Your promotion class granted the majority of your class defining skills and abilities. Would you demand you be able to completely change classes between campaigns on a signle character, or would you expect to have to roll or reroll if you wanted to play a different class?


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"does this promote fun"

 

for some yes...for others no...but i think you are Asking the wrong Question here...

 

does this promote meaningful Choices and the consequences of Risk versus Reward?

 

and yer olde Doc sez....yep, it does...


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let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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