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arthidon

Wanderers Cloak -Hide/cover Your Gear/archetype

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I always thought an interesting system would be if you could wear a cloak/robe that covers your character, as it would in real life, and make it hard to tell what you are wearing or even what your archetype or maybe race was (if it has a hood). This would add a great unknown risk at engaging someone. You wouldn't be able to tell if they have good gear or what Archetype they are.

 

I can imagine all the palm sweating moments this could cause. Which is what I believe this game is trying to capture.

 

adding edits to cover points made

 

EDIT: This Might also add more meanful and complex mechanics to a scout type of role which might have a skill/ability associated identifying things like Health(generalized, not actual numbers)/Archetypes/Promotions/Guild/Faction at certain distance or through the cloak. I just wouldn't mind some supprise to jumping someone and a deep scout mechanic as well which would go along with that.

 

EDITA "Mystery" mechanic would not in any way take away from the Archetypes. 

 

An Archetype will still be full of personality and flavor. Once in combat the archetypes would be immediately recognizable either through weapon or fighting stance/style/movements/Abilities. Also mind you, you would get an IDEA of what Archetype they are based on the weapon, even before combat. At least if the weapons are small enough to be hidden by the cloak. The characters are so diverse there is no true way of knowing how someone is spec'd until you are fighting them. 

 

EDIT: THE CLOAK WOULDN'T"T HIDE THINGS MAGICALLY or anything that a normal cloak wouldn't. This is not meant to be "Gamey," There will be no magic poof on/off cloak mechanic. It's suppose to be Immerseive  and add dynamic and interesting play to all types of pvp. From random encounters to organized combat. The only "Gamey" aspect would be hiding Name Plates/Tags/Levels/Archetype. Which are all Gamey... 

 

EDIT: I appreciate your input  :)​  and yea I can just imagine. Reports coming in of enemy activity at one of the important resource nodes. But no one was around with high enough skill to Identify who they were. So then you would send out the scouts or bounty hunters. Meanwhile the leadership is theory crafting on who they are and how to respond in the meantime.

 

EDIT:**** What I really hope that all of you get out of this is more the "Vision," all the little details are semantics and shouldn't be argue over. It would require R&D/Iteration to figure out what mechanics behind it exactly work. But the GENERAL idea I think could only add something dynamic/organic/interesting to game play. At least in my personal opinion. ****

Edited by arthidon

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The only thing I'd prefer to avoid, is armies of people fighting with this cloak on. Maybe only certain archetypes and promotion classes can have some kind of disguise. Or I guess it could just disappear when you attack something / are attacked.

 

I don't even want to know how powerful people are in general in the first place. Don't even show health bars or any indications at all, besides the gear you have on.

 

People wouldn't be wandering around so confident anymore. They wouldn't click on you from a mile away and immediately have an idea of whether they can kill you or not. Anyway that's a separate issue and not part of your topic. It's the same ballpark though, and I long for games to stop giving players all the details.



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@ChatGem - It would be interesting if seeing things about other players (health maybe?) was driven by abilities or a recon stat of some type. An example would be The higher your recon stat would determine how far away you could see Heath status or health amount (maybe generalized health not actual numbers I.E low, medium, high), Archetype, Specialization or something like that. I just wouldn't mind some supprise to jumping someone and a deep scout mechanic as well which would go along with that

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The only thing I'd prefer to avoid, is armies of people fighting with this cloak on. Maybe only certain archetypes and promotion classes can have some kind of disguise. Or I guess it could just disappear when you attack something / are attacked.

 

I don't even want to know how powerful people are in general in the first place. Don't even show health bars or any indications at all, besides the gear you have on.

 

People wouldn't be wandering around so confident anymore. They wouldn't click on you from a mile away and immediately have an idea of whether they can kill you or not. Anyway that's a separate issue and not part of your topic. It's the same ballpark though, and I long for games to stop giving players all the details.

 

Yes this! I always hated in GW2, Archeage, RIFT and pretty much any other game with organized pvp, how people sized me up based on my health or mana pool. Then again it worked out to my advantage somewhat in rift. Playing as a Justicar meant you could intentionally have a smaller health pool, so long as you had high gear defense and were quick on abilities. (Justicar life regen too stronk) 

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I like this idea mostly because I want to have to guess what class someone is by how they play. this would also lead to certain advantages by playing differently.

 

no I think it would work best if the only visible factor that could determine class was race tendencies. for example a wizard might outfit himself to look like a knight so that e can get the drop on his enemies. however this wizard might not be good at using these weapons and armor and could be easily destroyed in a melee combat situation.

 

currently the character models that are being use look sort of set in stone but hopefully you can have any class look like anything.

 

Edit: yeah I also think that health bars are a no go I prefer to hit em' till they dead.

Edited by Sillsei

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Well the idea I was thinking had nothing to do with faking to be another type of class. It was more to make jumping someone/ or multiple people more risky. Which would encourage more thought out tactical planning.

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I think this would be absolutely fantastic.. It would make guarding caravans or strategic points so much more interesting if they have bodyguards and potential ambushes have no idea what kind of build they are or the gear they are using. I would love to see Crowfall implement this.

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I agree completely with the idea.

 

However, it may already be implemented in some form. Recall from the combat mechanics there is no "Targetting" system. So unless there's a interface graphic that displays class, you won't not someone's class at a glance. In addition, Armor is a lot less thematic than some other MMOs. So there's not a set "look" for a class. You may be able to wear clothing that is ambiguous or even looks like another class to scare the hell out of potential gankers.

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I agree completely with the idea.

 

However, it may already be implemented in some form. Recall from the combat mechanics there is no "Targetting" system. So unless there's a interface graphic that displays class, you won't not someone's class at a glance. In addition, Armor is a lot less thematic than some other MMOs. So there's not a set "look" for a class. You may be able to wear clothing that is ambiguous or even looks like another class to scare the hell out of potential gankers.

I agree, however, Race plays a big part in the game, for example centaurs having increased base movement speed, if there was way to shroud yourself in mystery so that onlookers would have to engage you in combat to discover what you really were could make for some interesting scenarios. Also, what is scarier? 15 Players whom are shrouded in mystery or 15 players that can each be somewhat identified?

 

To go even further, perhaps to be able to wear or make such a cloak you need to have a certain skill nearly mastered so that way people who want to act as bodyguards or mercenary of some sort would have to invest their passive exp into that skill

Edited by amdacias

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I always thought an interesting system would be if you could wear a cloak/robe that covers your character, as it would in real life, and make it hard to tell what you are wearing or even what your archetype or maybe race was (if it has a hood). This would add a great unknown risk at engaging someone. You wouldn't be able to tell if they have good gear or what Archetype they are.

 

Can I also have a magic cloak that hides the floating name over my head to other people?  I think after the seventieth time you've died to Kyutaru, you'll remember my spec.

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This runs directly to the developers' clearly stated intention for archetypes to be immediately recognizable. I don't believe this is a direction they want to take the game in.

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This could only work if it was for non-combat only, but somehow didn't look bizarre and "gamey" when they switch from cloaked to combat-ready.  Maybe if it was like a pick-up item, that prevented other abilities and was dropped to go into combat?

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I can already imagine the scenario. Everyone looks the same, two groups approach each other, everybody is 180 cm tall and wears the same wanderers cloak. The fight starts, the cloaks are removed. BADAM Guinecean spec group vs. Centaur spec group!

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This runs directly to the developers' clearly stated intention for archetypes to be immediately recognizable. I don't believe this is a direction they want to take the game in.

 

 

I can already imagine the scenario. Everyone looks the same, two groups approach each other, everybody is 180 cm tall and wears the same wanderers cloak. The fight starts, the cloaks are removed. BADAM Guinecean spec group vs. Centaur spec group!

 

 

This could only work if it was for non-combat only, but somehow didn't look bizarre and "gamey" when they switch from cloaked to combat-ready.  Maybe if it was like a pick-up item, that prevented other abilities and was dropped to go into combat?

Sorry friend I think you are completely wrong. A "Mystery" mechanic would not in any way take away from the Archetypes. 

 

An Archetype will still be full of personality and flavor. Once in combat the archetypes would be immediately recognizable either through weapon or fighting stance/style/movements/Abilities. Also mind you, you would get an IDEA of what Archetype they are based on the weapon, even before combat. At least if the weapons are small enough to be hidden by the cloak. The characters are so diverse there is no true way of knowing how someone is spec'd until you are fighting them. 

 

THE CLOAK WOULDN'T"T HIDE THINGS MAGICALLY or anything that a normal cloak wouldn't. This is not meant to be "Gamey," There will be no magic poof on/off cloak mechanic. It's suppose to be Immerseive  and add dynamic and interesting play to all types of pvp. From random encounters to organized combat. The only "Gamey" aspect would be hiding Name Plates/Tags/Levels/Archetype. Which are all Gamey... So if a knight was wearing a cloak with a hood then the character would look the same but with a cloak. Maybe it would  be hard to tell the difference between a knight and someone else in plate wearing a shield (Paladin maybe?) But also you would not again the Gamey aspects would be hidden. 

 

That being said I'm pitching a vision of a mechanic not a design document. Mechanics would require some R&D and Iteration.

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Perhaps not recognizing the gear a person is wearing might be a good way to surprise someone.

Though that would mean the cape had to be rather low end as otherwise only higher skilled players would wear capes.

 

I don't think it gives that much of an advantage, except maybe hiding the current gear your wearing.

Archetypes should be rather easily recognizable, even with a cloak covering them.

 

It would probably become a bit too complicated to implement as you are suggesting it.

I'd rather just see them as decoration only, or even a piece of gear if possible.


"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

A solid quote, I'd say.

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I like the core concept of this idea, creating some kind of anonymity so people dont immediately know your capabilities. I dont think a generic cloak is the answer though, since everyone will be wearing one (cause why wouldnt you?) then everyone looks the same and boring. There is magic in the world however, and maybe have an artifact that lets you cast a glamour on yourself that changes your appearance, then is dispelled when you become aggressive or are attacked. 

 

Example: You are a knight, you off mining or doing something, but you have the glamour of a frostweaver. An assassin is sneaking around and sees you, thinking you wll be a squishy easily poked target she attacks you, then your glamour is dispelled and oh crap thats heavy armor.

Edited by abyssalgod

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What's the downside? You're not done designing until you've figured why people would choose not to wear a cloak.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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What's the downside? You're not done designing until you've figured why people would choose not to wear a cloak.

The downside could be that you need to level up a certain skill like "Scouting" or "Sneaking" to be able to wear the cloaks. Not everyone should be able to wear them. For example, I don't think that a whole army should be able to be cloaked. 

 

To tackle this issue, I can  think of one method in my head. A player wants to be a sort of mercenary that builds his wealth by protecting caravans. This player decides to make his passive exp gain be 1. Scouting/Sneaking (Whatever allows you to wear the cloak) 2. 2h-Sword 3. Defense that way he gives up some possible exp to be able to be anonymous.

 

Some clarification: The cloak would un-equip upon the start of combat. Thus you wouldn't fight some cloaked guy that hid everything the entire time. The cloak would simply make people have to think twice about their strategy as they don't know whether you are a support/tank/dps/ranged dps. They don't know whether you have a lot of cc, damage, can be killed easily, etc. It makes for more thoughtful strategy. However, they do know that you are putting your exp into sneaking/scouting which could yield them some useful info.

 

Also, the cloak could scale in power by the level of the scouting/sneaking level as well as the quality of the item. For example a beginner may only be able to cloak his armor but not his weapon, then maybe the next tier would cloak weapon and armor, then race, hp bar, names,  and etc.

Edited by Dacias

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It makes for more thoughtful strategy.

 

I'm not sure it does. How is "be ready for anything, I dunno lol" more thoughtful than "we've got 3 heavies and 2 casters to deal with"? Thoughtful strategy is informed strategy; removing information from the battlespace makes for more chaotic combats, not more strategic ones.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I'm not sure it does. How is "be ready for anything, I dunno lol" more thoughtful than "we've got 3 heavies and 2 casters to deal with"? Thoughtful strategy is informed strategy; removing information from the battlespace makes for more chaotic combats, not more strategic ones.

It would require people to think up of strategies on the fly. It would also require you to plan for multiple potential scenarios. It would make things more dynamic and organic I think. maybe for a downside there could be a high training requirement or only certain disciplines could use it. Also it would be an item like anything else. Potential a high valued item?

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