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Wanderers Cloak -Hide/cover Your Gear/archetype


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Cloaks would be fun element to the game. I like a little mystery. I'd like to be able to place a logo or something on them. I'd be interested in even having cloaks that could conceal your identity (hide name plate). Maybe only out of combat, but still...

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I always thought an interesting system would be if you could wear a cloak/robe that covers your character, as it would in real life, and make it hard to tell what you are wearing or even what your arc

The only thing I'd prefer to avoid, is armies of people fighting with this cloak on. Maybe only certain archetypes and promotion classes can have some kind of disguise. Or I guess it could just disapp

@ChatGem - It would be interesting if seeing things about other players (health maybe?) was driven by abilities or a recon stat of some type. An example would be The higher your recon stat would deter

I am curious if you had any more input that doesn't involve just writing the idea off as invalid. I think stealth mechanics are slightly overdone and bland. I would like to see more than just stealth vs counter stealth IMO.

I guess I ultimately don't understand what would be the point of this. I've never played a PvP oriented MMO and wished I didn't know who I was going to be fighting, you know? I don't see this adding gameplay depth, although I guess it will shift the emphasis towards "responding to unpredictable situations" instead of "knowing about character classes and making tactical plans."

 

I completely understand why you would say this is an interesting idea. But what makes it a good idea?

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Well, personally I have led over 200 man raids and I can tell you, the unknown is scary. Knowledge or intel is valuable. Being able to deny your enemy intel can be a big deal. For instanced... Maybe two resources nodes activate and I want to split my troops. Maybe I feel like Location "A" has more value so I send 3/4 of my men there and maybe 1/4 to location "B". Well my squad that went to location B gets taken out. Let's say I didn't send someone with "scouting" skilled up so they couldn't identify the guild. Even if I know everything about the small band of enemy troops at location B except their guild, that puts me in a tough spot. I may have a small fort i still need to defend, location A to hold, and two other fronts with potential known guild threats. So is this a third guild at location B or one of the known guilds? I have to make a partially informed decision, not an fully informed decision. This decision could mean a big loss.

 

It adds an important and meaningful variable that can effect small or big decisions. Eve is a great example, so much of that game rely's on Intelligence. Thousands of in game assets can be lost because of bad intel. 

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I guess I ultimately don't understand what would be the point of this. I've never played a PvP oriented MMO and wished I didn't know who I was going to be fighting, you know? I don't see this adding gameplay depth, although I guess it will shift the emphasis towards "responding to unpredictable situations" instead of "knowing about character classes and making tactical plans."

 

I completely understand why you would say this is an interesting idea. But what makes it a good idea?

As Arthidon stated, it adds a layer of strategy. 

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It's less about concealing your identity from your enemies and more about concealing it from your "allies".  A wolf in sheep's clothing makes things very much more interesting indeed.

Well said.

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This was a thought that KGB often talked about internally during Darkfall as well.

Could be an interesting idea to have a simple, low durability cloak/robe of sorts to wear over your armor simply for hiding your character type/tag and nothing further.

Various types/colors perhaps for the extra culty effect.

 

Would be a nice tool to have around.

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This was a thought that KGB often talked about internally during Darkfall as well.

Could be an interesting idea to have a simple, low durability cloak/robe of sorts to wear over your armor simply for hiding your character type/tag and nothing further.

Various types/colors perhaps for the extra culty effect.

 

Would be a nice tool to have around.

Glad you kind of see the intent here :) The concept just could at so many little layers throughout gameplay and depending on the actual mechanics could be relatively simple to implement.

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Right, so once you've leveled that skill...what's the downside? And what would stop a whole army from cloaking up (once they'd had time to level up)?

 

If anything, this will de-value gameplay based on scouting and sneaking. Why bother doing recon if the only information you're going to get is "a bunch of cloaked figures are approaching"? Wouldn't it be more interesting if characters built around scouting were able to bring back useful tactical info to their combat-oriented buddies?

I think your missing the point of a LRRP(long range recon patrol) forward observer. Some considerations could be

Size of the enemy

Direction traveling

Group makeup(what classes there are... Just becaus the hood hides your identity doesn't mean it will hide your archetype especially since archetypes are race locked)

All of this information can be vitally important to how you engage them and at no point does "who they are" matter until after they are dead :)

"He's like Batman except without the moral compass" ~Juror during first innocent verdict 

 

Ghost's of War, PvP gaming community founded 2002

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The cloaks should probably be able to hide prestige classes, but not archetypes themselves as they are race locked and it would be pretty hard to hide the bulk of a Champion or Minotaur.

"Fear not now for your mortal life, for your sanctum is here among the dead."

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Well, personally I have led over 200 man raids and I can tell you, the unknown is scary.

I understand what you mean, but that doesn't mean it's FUN. Still not getting how what you're describing would be an improvement on, "let's scout the enemies at those positions and make a plan to deal with them (while they do the same for us)."

 

The cloak thing as you're describing it sounds like the large-scale equivalent of having players do super high random crit damage. So yeah, it's "scary" that you might get one-shotted but ultimately it's more fun to have fights be less random and damage less spiky.

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It's less about concealing your identity from your enemies and more about concealing it from your "allies".  A wolf in sheep's clothing makes things very much more interesting indeed.

Fair enough, this is a totally different angle that I could see being interesting...

 

 

Just becaus the hood hides your identity doesn't mean it will hide your archetype especially since archetypes are race locked)

Ah, okay. I know people were talking about hiding/obscuring archetypes at one point. If you guys are just talking about hiding identity and not class now, that's a different thing and I was disagreeing with you by mistake. My bad!

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The people who keep asking "but what's the downside?!" have a point. I don't think a skill you need to level is the best idea, as that's just another hurdle you have to jump that everyone can still jump, if being mysterious is that much of an advantage.

 

The easiest solution that comes to mind is simply to allow all other cape/"cloak slot" items to allow for much greater bonuses, while a full hooded cloak that actually hides observable particulars would be limited to fewer actual combat bonuses, etc. Thus, the tradeoff.

 

As for things like "I'm pretty sure you're going to know it's a Centaur, guys!", this is true, but that would only sink this idea if the only purpose of concealment was to make you ask "what Archetype/class is THAT guy?". Which it isn't. For one thing, that Centaur could have ANY NUMBER of discipline combinations, not to mention equipment combinations/choices, AND he could be any one of three different promotions (I'm pretty sure a promoted Centaur still looks like a Centaur, and doesn't transform into something with a completely different silhouette.)

 

So, the most notable effect of being cloaked would be "Hey, I stumbled upon a lone Centaur... Hmm.. is he like a pure gatherer/crafter on the way to a node? Or is he scouting an area or clearing it out, maybe? Or is he riding to join some friends in preparation for a huge battle, and wearing ridiculously good-quality equipment under that cloak?"

 

It's just simple unknowns. You can risk it, if you're willing to take on whatever Centaur might be revealed. Or, you might say "Nah... I'll just find someone to tackle who isn't such a question mark." It's not a complicated concept. It could easily be very interesting.

 

I don't get why people are SO quick to shoot down ideas, with mere things worth considering. "No, you can't have mana, because what if it was infinite mana?! u_u..." What if it wasn't? Instead of telling people why concealment is dumb, maybe tell them the circumstances under which it WOULD be dumb, in an effort to try to find the circumstances that would support it. *Gasp*... constructive discussion might ensue! o_o

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I like the concept of this debate, but I don't think that cloaks are the answer.  Ultimately everyone WILL BE wearing them somehow.

 

Asheron's Call had this sort of concept via skills, with identification and deception skills.  You had to dedicate your much need skill points to it in order to make it effective...  It was a great concept, but it wasn't long into the game's age that the skills became irrelevant (excluding the PvP server).

 

I really like the idea of a certain amount of anonymity in general though, and archetype individuality could be applied.  I mean, obviously a Knight's reputation precedes him, and he'd lack the ability to deceive, whereas a Ranger has little desire to share or socialize, and therefore mysterious in nature.

"Where there is unity there is always victory." -- Publilius Syrus

"If there weren't luck involved, I would win every time." -- Phil Hellmuth
"A good soldier does not fight because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." -- G. K. Chesterton
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Well here is one huge problem people haven't highlighted with this idea.

 

They have stated that it is important that classes have immediately identifiable silohettes and prestige classes are identifiable by weapon.

 

We won't be hiding anything unless we have a mob to hide amongst, or stealth. They will not deviate from their design vision unless the vision proves a detriment to the game, inability o mask your class isn't a detriment. So, despite that it would be rather cool (and fitting) for say...a ranger to hide their form in a cloak so you may mistake them for another class, it doesn't look like it'll ever have a remote chance of consideration as of now.

"Lawful Good does not always mean Lawful Nice."

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Well here is one huge problem people haven't highlighted with this idea.

 

They have stated that it is important that classes have immediately identifiable silohettes and prestige classes are identifiable by weapon.

 

We won't be hiding anything unless we have a mob to hide amongst, or stealth. They will not deviate from their design vision unless the vision proves a detriment to the game, inability o mask your class isn't a detriment. So, despite that it would be rather cool (and fitting) for say...a ranger to hide their form in a cloak so you may mistake them for another class, it doesn't look like it'll ever have a remote chance of consideration as of now.

This has already been discussed in the thread. It is also why I stated guild as an example. The idea is to not look at examples right now as literal mechanics but at the vision of the idea. The potential gameplay it can add. The nitty gritty details would be very iterative and would rely on a lot of other different gameplay mechanics to be more developed :) .

If you want to get super detailed with mechanics then I would argue that different Archetype/professions can use more than one type of weapon/equipment. That has already been stated and there are examples of this. Also, the characters have so much more customization and depth than Archetype/profession. You only have a base idea of what someone can achieve based off of that info. There are still runes, advantages/disadvantages and god knows how many skills they still will have access to. Also potentially multiple professions will share some of the weapon types, like the Templar/Judicator both use a two hander. Potentially you won't be able to tell if they are new or advanced in their profession. So the identifiable archetype debate isn't really valid in my perspective. It's too surface level, and this game has more depth than that.

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Well here is one huge problem people haven't highlighted with this idea.

 

They have stated that it is important that classes have immediately identifiable silohettes and prestige classes are identifiable by weapon.

 

Funny thing is, if this weren't the case, then this idea wouldn't have any purpose, :)

 

The more important visual information is, the more significant hiding that information is. And yes, no one's talked about completely disguising your silhouette. It's more a simple matter of multiple things:

 

Any given archetype could be build in a pretty wide variety of ways, and seeing what all they're carrying/wearing will help you determine that. So, not-seeing that stuff (via a simple, actually-used-in-the-real-world-and-not-magical-at-all concept of "I'm just covering myself with a big, wearable piece of cloth") would interestingly generate some unknowns about that particular character.

 

 

A cloak that hid your gear would be cool, but only if it went away in-combat.

 

I don't think it would "go away" in combat. But, it would probably just be pushed back behind your shoulders (sort of like a cape), instead of wrapping around them in front to cover you. Basically, in combat, it would just cover your back, because of the movement of your arms and your need to make attacks without getting tangled in a cloak, etc.

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A cloak that hid your gear would be cool, but only if it went away in-combat.

 

I like this idea of cloaks. If different races can be different classes, then cloaks would be awesome. You might be able to tell the race by the size, but not what archtype. Also the cloak would have to be on a cooldown. maybe 1 hour. Guild names would have to be shown though (this would have to vary depending on ruleset). without that info, you could be killing allies. Cloak goes away after you engage in PVP combat, or die. There is no skill that can reveal the cloak. You show up as ??? (guildname) on track (if there is a mechanic like this).

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