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Paladin Class

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I personally don't think they will cross classes like that.  I think that if you want a sword and board tank you go knight, if you want a 2h tank you go Templar. 

 

I would be willing to bet that no matter which promotion choice you make for the knight you will still have the shield and his block ability. 

 

I just feel like they are making it so when you see that human sized archetype across the battlefield and it has a shield its a knight if it doesn't then its a Templar.  It seems like they are going to stick with that easy to recognize your opponents base archetype thing, but the promotion path might be more subtle.  

 

Not to be rude, but that isn't true. The Knight's Promo concepts have been released and there is a crossbow user, the sentinel, and another one that isn't a s/b user, can't remember what it was off the top of my head. The point being that there is plenty of crossover potential.

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Not to be rude, but that isn't true. The Knight's Promo concepts have been released and there is a crossbow user, the sentinel, and another one that isn't a s/b user, can't remember what it was off the top of my head. The point being that there is plenty of crossover potential.

I believe it's sentinel, crusader, swordsman

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paladin, paladin, paladin. 

 

blah! templars are supposed to be butt kickers and name takers. PoE did them well. here's to hoping CF will too.

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First of I wanna say, I've seen Crowfall come along way from when it first was in kick-starter and initial testing. I had skeptical thoughts about Crowfall being a great game it had potential for. ACE has done a fantastic turn around from the initial combat testing and is really starting to live up to the game I had hoped it would be. I am posting in this thread again because 85% of what the Templar and the Paladin discipline turns out to be, will decide whether I play this game for years to come or not. I am the kinda of person that doesn't play multi classes, toons, or characters(whatever you wanna call them). I prefer to master one and be the best at it than to play 3 or 4 and just be average at them. I grabbed very well-rounded posts that can help draw out the direction I would like to see the Templar go as I know ACE is getting close to developing it if they haven't already.

 

 

To me a Paladin should seek out and destroy evil at every opportunity with the help of holy power.  He should be able to bolster himself, smite the wicked, and redirect that holy energy to helping his closest allies in their times of need (cures, armor buffs, maybe a light heal).  He should also be a hearty warrior with a strong conviction able to withstand many condition changing effects as well as poisons and diseases.  He may not be the hardest hitter or the most mobile on the battlefield, but chances are he will be one of the last ones standing through sheer willpower.   

I see it as a more melee defensive/supportive type of promotion class for the Templar. 

I started with this one because IMO I feel like this describes the Paladin promo class the best, and I feel that a Templar is very similar to that of the Paladin itself. Instead of a light heal though giving that healing is light to begin with in a pvp game. I would much rather see protection buffs, and cleanses. For Example, The Paladin's big ability some called (Divine Intervention) which takes all the damage from nearby allies, up to say 35 meters and applied to the Paladin instead for the next 15 secs. I would like to see defensive and support abilities like that instead of healing.

 

Seriously, let's bring Paladin back to it's roots shall we?

 

Paladin is a known title of the middle ages and used in the crusades and in fantasy novels it was used in much the same manner...a holy WARRIOR. A warrior does not sit and heal, a warrior heals when necessary (first aid...last second life saving) they are NOT medics. A paladin is a warrior first and foremost, heavy armor, heavy weapons, more stubborn than a dwarf, hardier than any centaur. They are the fulcrum of any army, the rock, the line that never retreats and pushes forward creating openings. In the fantasy world the Paladin is the warrior sheathed in holy fire, dealing mortal blows to the impure/evil easily, and being virtually immune to any affliction/de-buff you can think of.

 

Game mechanic wise? Templar is a tank archetype that wields 2 handed swords, sword/board, or spears if the one image is to be believed. Can use spiritual flame magic (blue/white ghostly flames rather than the orange elemental variety) on weaponry and likely for close range direct damage (think circle of fire, sanctifying ground, line of fire). Frankly the only "healing" I expect if the goal is to be any way Paladin-like would be self immunity to many affliction/de-buffs (likely focused on the ones favored by the undead/hunger enemies) and the ability to cauterize wounds using fire to instantly stop bleeds and a dispelling of magic that strips de-buffs off of people.

 

Paladins are not Clerics, you want to wear heavier armor and heal...then Cleric is the archetype you want, NOT Paladin.

With the images given by Crowfall of the Templar I defiantly see them wielding that 2H Mace or Greatsword(which is more likely) than a Sword and board. I see the Templar as giving off Radiant glow spells rather than some sort of fire as the Confessor already has this. I like that fact that they should be able protect themselves or allies depending on circumstances by stoppng damage or cleansing debuffs.

 

I prefer my paladins as the hard to kill warrior and magic knight type, not the heavy armor wearing medic variant.

 

What I'd love for the crowfall paladin to become would be a melee damage class, but focused on magical damage.

Let use cleanse the Hunger (and the other factions) with fire.

I'm pretty sure everyone when they think of a Paladin they think hard to kill support character that doesn't do absurd amounts of damage. I would really like to get back to this concept in Crowfall. There is a BIG difference between hard to kill and unkillable(aka Overpowered)though. More often than not, being hard to kill is balanced with the damage output of the character.In a 1v1 scenario if a massive damage dealing character meets another that is hard to kill you think great now I'm dead cause I can't kill him.The reality of it is he doesn't do enough damage to kill you either and after about 5 minutes of brawling you both go your separate ways.

 

I like to think of the paladin as melee combat with a lot of utility. The ideas about building up power through engaging in melee combat and then being able to spend it on utility like defensive/buffs/heals or simply burst damage appeals greatly to me.

 

It makes sense since Paladin is the same as Holywarrior. And if you break it down holy can be manifested as light/healing/protection & buffs, while warrior obviously hints at a focus on melee combat.
 

The classical MMO problem with character balance is that the Paladin often turns out to be either a mediocre at everything class that no one wants to play, or an overpowered monster that is immune, heals, wear heaviest armor and deals high damage that everyone wants to play. So I think the trick here is to make sure the paladin can't do all those things at once, but has to choose where to spend the power.

I would like to see the Templar played around the idea of having power at the start like mana more like a rogue where he only has like 6-10 points and spends the points by using certain abilities, and regaining them as the fight goes on. If you build up power like you do with rage it will feel like playing the other Archetypes just with different abilities. I would like to have a different feel to the Templar than the other melee Archetypes.Again with the Templar I think there is nothing wrong with having them walk around with a big 2handed Mace or Sword,do less damage  and be more of a support role Archetype. I would introduce some new and different gameplay as well as strategy to this great game.

 

I have tons more to say but let's start with this as its turning into a TLDR and I don't want that. Let me know what you guys think of these ideas.

 

 

                                                                                                Jamadin

                                                                                    Future Templar Player (fingers crossed)

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I pray to god that promotions won't just be statistical shifts/upgrades. They need to be more and shift the play style of the archetype considerably. More ability options plz god.

 

Otherwise, what's the point of even having them? Might as well just have disciplines.

Edited by helix

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Honestly, I like the traditional bane of the undead role of a Paladin with some healing aspects.  I also feel Paladins should be able to sacrifice themselves (in part or in whole) to protect people.  I'm hoping they decide to add a shield to the Pally, and maybe they already have, but if not then not.

I find that offensive . UnDeAD are my friends...

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I just want them to get it right, paladins are suppose to be badass, not heal bots, and not someone that would hit you with a wet noodle either. Just sayin' I would rather have a D&D, Pathfinder or Warcraft Paladin (from their books). 

 

Edit: added parenthesis to better convey my meaning.

I would like to see the return of the Everquest palidin, They were mostly tank with decent dmg with some heals. there heals were weaker than the healer classes so they couldnt main heal, however they were great side healing if thing suddenly got hairy so they could sneak in a quick heal to help the healer out when things got sketchy. They also had a instant cast full heal as a last resort that they could use on anyone but had realy realy long CD (aka 1 day) so yeah it was a last resort (could have the ulti like a smaller version of this with a 1 min CD).

They had holy dmg spells aswell as the heals so that was there ranged options if melee wasnt the option, they didnt have the mana pool to sustain long period of spell casting but it did the job in a pinch or finishing something off that was running, they also some stun so if healer pulled agro u could try stunning the mob for a second or 2 to regain agro.

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If i were to make the Templar i would make it a support crossed with a tank but can still speclise into dmg via archetype

The archtypes focus (since there in tank catagory they gotta be mostly tank based with a twist depending on how iu specilise)
- Tanky support (Stuns/small heals)
- Tanky Melee dmg
- Tanky Spell dmg (range holy dmg type)

Physical dmg ability like left click and things generate pips and pips are used to do your spells.
the support and spell archetype trees your looking for waus to generate more pips quicker probaly since you use those ability more where the tanky melee tree gets more dmg and tanky archetype. Im assume the 7,8,9,0 ability and what not will be for archetype ability too so make those accordingly.

just some thought of abilitys.
- Bubbles or makes a holy wall in an area that blocks projectiles or reduce dmg so supporting allies by negating dmg on them
- Charge and then pop a shield that increases defence or negates some dmg to all allies within x radius and dmg enemies (will need a gap closer of some kind)
- Drops an Aoe on the ground that dmg enemy over time+slight heal to allies in the area of effect
- Physical attacks have a cleaving nature (atleast for greatsword)
- Ranged stun ability probaly for a second or two, should make this chain to a blinding ability, so its like a blinding holy light stuns your from the brigtness than u can chain it to a blind effect.
- Possibly make a prison ability where u pop a ring wall around you that allies can run through but enemies cant so you can peel for people low hp.
-Long CD lay on hands that does a strong heal on urself or possibly allies
- Ressurect ability revive falled allies to x% (Probs make this one an archetype ability for the support line) i dont think be many classes that can ressurect but should be atleast one (ability could have a cast time or instant cast but return person with very low hp)

I dunno these are some idea's i see templars/paladin archetypes as being a non selfish tank so they support allies by mitigating dmg themself and allies around them. They wont be as tanky themselfs as say the knight but you can be assisting allies in the process.

Edited by veeshan

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Id like to point out, that Paladin in Crowfall is listed as a TANK Archtype NOT a support/healer archtype. So, I would hope it would play more like a Myrmidon or Knight, than anything else.

I think a "hybrid" between those would be great. Dealing "Holy" type damage that bypasses DR. Using a "pip" system for combos which is SWEET to me personally.

So we have to be careful in asking for things that would turn it into a support class. But I think some "self buffs" would be really cool, similar to Duelist. 

I would like to see a "Hammer Throw" an AoE stun - could be similar to Myrm's "5" net+pull ability. Maybe throw your weapon, stuns the target for X seconds then if you can get close to them follow up with a knockdown. 

 

I think it should encompass some type of slow self HOT though, it could even be a "channeled" ability similar to Myrms's Whirlwind.

Just a few ideas.
 

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Id like to point out, that Paladin in Crowfall is listed as a TANK Archtype NOT a support/healer archtype. So, I would hope it would play more like a Myrmidon or Knight, than anything else.

 

I think a "hybrid" between those would be great. Dealing "Holy" type damage that bypasses DR. Using a "pip" system for combos which is SWEET to me personally.

 

So we have to be careful in asking for things that would turn it into a support class. But I think some "self buffs" would be really cool, similar to Duelist. 

 

I would like to see a "Hammer Throw" an AoE stun - could be similar to Myrm's "5" net+pull ability. Maybe throw your weapon, stuns the target for X seconds then if you can get close to them follow up with a knockdown. 

 

I think it should encompass some type of slow self HOT though, it could even be a "channeled" ability similar to Myrms's Whirlwind.

 

Just a few ideas.

 

well there is such a thing as a support tank (and in a PvP setting in general the line between tank and support blurs quite a bit really), also where knight and myrm are listed as "Tank(Mitigation)", the Templar is listed as "Tank(Dodge)", so I would say i hope that it does NOT play like a knight/myrm (though those 2 already are quite different already from each other so lumping them together like that seems kinda weird to me). Not the mention you can quite easily play a druid as a mainly dps if you want and be quite effective at it

Edited by Gummiel

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I'm pretty sure everyone when they think of a Paladin they think hard to kill support character that doesn't do absurd amounts of damage. I would really like to get back to this concept in Crowfall. There is a BIG difference between hard to kill and unkillable(aka Overpowered)though. More often than not, being hard to kill is balanced with the damage output of the character.In a 1v1 scenario if a massive damage dealing character meets another that is hard to kill you think great now I'm dead cause I can't kill him.The reality of it is he doesn't do enough damage to kill you either and after about 5 minutes of brawling you both go your separate ways.

 

 

 

 

Well, Is this about the "Paladin" or the Templar? 

 

I see many facets that have to be balanced. Maybe less of a triangle and more of a box.

 

So you have damage, utility, control, and tankiness.

 

Damage is simple.

Utility - maybe call this healing or buffs

Control - is CC

Tankiness - mitigation.

 

So you look at the Myrm for instance, and yes, currently kinda OP as they seem to have it ALL. Berserk gives tankiness and damage. They have amazing control with "C" and Berserk offers some utility.

 

I wont go into the Knight.

 

How I see the Templar potentially working is being closer to the Knight in terms of tankiness. (Setting aside Myrm Berserk atm). So a templar wont be AS beefy as a Knight, but maybe close.

It would offer more damage than the Knight arguably. Maybe more on par with Myrm damage.

It has mild "utility" in the form of maybe some "cleanse" or self buffs, along with maybe a very mild heal over time or maybe added "self healing" procced from an ability in a combo chain. (Thinking like a Reverse LMB from Myrm - instead of applying a bleed, maybe applies a small self HOT).

But LACKS in control. 

 

 

So the Templar would have:

- Tankiness (dodge tank)

- Damage

- Utility

LACKING: CONTROL.

 

The only "control" I think I would like is some type of ranged animation "righteous Hammer" that you THROW on "5" that stuns the target for 2-3 seconds - which is mainly used as a gap closer. So I wouldnt add any "pull" or "rush" mechanic. The Templar would have to RUN to the target and maybe if close enough "5" again would perform EITHER a "slow" or a "Knock Down" So the skill would involve throwing the hammer, running up to them, and either applying the knock down, or the slow. 

 

But this would be the ONLY form of control. So its clearly less than the other two, and not "control heavy".

 

Templars "C" ability would be cool to default to the "safe haven" mindset, where its maybe some AoE DR buff + Mild HOT that would aid party members. NOT overpowered, but enough to make it an "oh poorly made socks" button that HELPS. - a LITTLE akin to the Myrm "Berserk" ability except a LONGER CD - and providing no damage buff.

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I think:
The Knight - (tank promo) will be the CC Tank adding more CC to the class
The Templar - Paladin will be Support Tank (auras/buffs/protection)

The Myrmidon - (Tank Promo) will be a damage tank like the DoK in Warhammer. He will do this will strong single target spike dmg and debuffs like sunder armor 

 

Each will be useful in their own way

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They'll also have promotion classes and disciplines that allow them to focus in other areas.  I could definitely see a more damage focused templar promotion tree, along with one focusing more on support.

 

edit: damnit, I said paladin, I must cleanse myself of the past, templar forever.

Edited by jasta85

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Personally, I prefer the Paladin of Vengeance model from 5th ED D&D.

 

Singles out opponents on the battle field to challenge in single combat where it just kicks ass.

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