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Elvine

Crafting / Economy F A Q

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Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm sold on it either. I just was thinking about the old SB model, which would sometimes take hours to craft an item, but they were also crafted by NPCs. I'd prefer crafting to be quick, but if it isn't, at least don't make me sit at my computer and watch the proverbial grass grow.

 

I figured making the point was worth it, even if I'm not 100% certain it's the best way overall.


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Here's my take on a couple of those.

 

Resource Spawning - I'd like to see some random spawns out in the world, where an item will randomly spawn instead of something else - a MoB, tree, or something else. However, I'd rather see the bulk of resources contained within a limited number of chokepoints. I want to fight for my right to craft.

 

Inventory management - If items stack, let them stack in my pack. I hated picking up 10 stacks of coal in SB and not being able to combine them into two.

 

Hauling resources - I can't wait to raid a supply caravan. Give players the option to destroy carts/packs in addition to capturing them. Denying my enemy the goods is often just as important as taking them for myself. I'll be more likely to attack an overwhelming force if I can burn their supplies before I cut and run. Combat is good - encourage it.

 

Refining resources - An absolute waste of time. Gold is gold. I don't need 99 flavors of it. Put the variety in with the material types, rather than quality of said materials.

 

Crafting mini game - There's already a crafting mini game. It's calling Wheeling and Dealing. Hands down, the best crafting mini-game is the negotiations with other players for goods. No mechanical system will ever beat that long term. Give us an effective way to communicate wares available for sell or trade, and folks will be happy. Crafters are generally sociable - don't force them to waste time at a forge. Sometimes the simplest solution is the best.

 

Mass production - My real life time is my most valuable commodity. Don't make me spend 2 hours a night repairing gear for my guys out fighting instead of giving me a chance to do both. I like to build stuff, but I'm not a REMF. If I've got the resources, give me the opportunity to queue up and create stuff. Allow it to build while I'm offline. If I can train offline, why can't I craft offline? In fact, I'd be fine with allowing you to dedicate training time to creating items offline instead.

 

Repair - Let players field repair by taking it to an NPC. It might not repair it as well as a crafter, but in a siege, you need to get back to the walls ASAP. Don't slow this down. If you do, then it'll favor large swarms of players over those who are smaller but better organized.

 

I am a fan of this take of the crafting system,

however i am not sure about "Refining Resources";

if there are certain rare elemtents, like souls, or chips of certain elements(crystals,usw),

you could istead of searching for the rest or enough to craft a concrete usable item,

use it on other elemts and forge them to a "modifed" element, quite similar to the Metal Alloy system,

they don t even have to give extra Attributes or Stats,

in basic it could just add some visials or special effects

I must say that i havent really thought in depths about it, but i think having the "Refining Resources" would give a little extra to the crafting system

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Make sure crafting is engaging and quick.  The last thing I want to see is a system where I can que up my character to build 50 of something and then have to wait for something like 50 x 6 seconds each for them to be made.  The time spent on crafting should be spent in tweaking the recipes and getting the resources.

 

A big reason for this is I think Crowfall should encourage players to play 1 character at a time through making it difficult for people to play multiple accounts at once, so I am against things like autorun and AFK crafting/harvesting.


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I agree with the suggestions of having BOTH manual crafting and auto crafting. I really enjoyed the crafting in FFXIV, and I think if you want a shot at making a really unique weapon you need to hammer it out yourself. If you are mass producing swords for the castle seige tonight, you should get the option to mass produce, or at least not manually play a timing mini game each time.


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I agree with the suggestions of having BOTH manual crafting and auto crafting. I really enjoyed the crafting in FFXIV, and I think if you want a shot at making a really unique weapon you need to hammer it out yourself. If you are mass producing swords for the castle seige tonight, you should get the option to mass produce, or at least not manually play a timing mini game each time.

 

I also like the idea of choice in how to craft. Think of the scene in LotR where the orcs were mass producing weapons for thousands of cannon-fodder troops vs the reforging of Aragorn's sword.

 

Thralls would be a great way to create larger numbers of more generic items, but to craft a masterpiece takes the personal touch and more attention.

 

So you can auto-craft generic items (you or your thralls), or use a manual approach to fine tune an item.

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I was curious, does our name appear on items we create? Is there any chance of an option to add a visual brand to items we create? I plan on being a very dedicated crafter that launches into campaigns nonstop to fuel the war machine. Are there archetypes that pair well with it so you can still venture out to get those resources / thralls or are you basically a hang out in town NPC type. I'm not saying I'm opposed to that, just would like to get an idea of the type of gameplay I'm in for (I know having friends guard me while I'm out collecting is a possibility as well :D)

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I was curious, does our name appear on items we create? Is there any chance of an option to add a visual brand to items we create?

 

Entry 9 of the FAQ. (You read the first post in this thread, right?)

 

 Are there archetypes that pair well with it so you can still venture out to get those resources / thralls or are you basically a hang out in town NPC type.

 

By choosing crafting-oriented vs combat-oriented promotion classes and disciplines, you'll be able to steer your character either towards a pure crafting build or a hybrid crafter+combat build.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Entry 9 of the FAQ. (You read the first post in this thread, right?)

 

 

By choosing crafting-oriented vs combat-oriented promotion classes and disciplines, you'll be able to steer your character either towards a pure crafting build or a hybrid crafter+combat build.

It doesn't specifically say how it's marked, that's why I asked. Though the second answer did help to a degree. Was hoping to hear more specifics but I know it's far too early for that.

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Resource Spawning: I'm a fan of choke points in PvP, as long as there are small quantities spread around so mats can still be gathered by the weak & the lonely

 

Harvesting: Please don't make it take too long, just long enough to sneak up from behind and back-stab.

 

Harvesting Tools: It depends on how much storage is available, whether this makes sense. I don't want to have to leave my harvesting tools at home just so I can go out and fight. By the same token, if weight & encumbrance is a factor, we will have to pick & choose who carries what when we go out reaving.

 

Inventory Management: In most MMO's, I have to have several accounts with max characters to allow me enough storage and specialization for all the mats needed. I like ESO's method of having a cottage with lot's of storage chests / shelves / crafting areas so I can work on different things all without having to travel all over the virtual world.

 

Recipes: Standard scale for recipes works for me. Common thru unique, each with commensurate rarity.

 

Hauling Resources: SchweinHerders FTW

 

Refining Resources: Always a mindless task, can't the thralls do this for us?

 

Crafting Mini Game: Anything to add variety to crafting in an interesting way is a good thing.

 

Mass Production: Thralls

 

Profession Interdependency: Yes, without making it so burdensome that you can't make anything without a huge list of other crafters willing to work with you.

 

Completed Goods: Thralls

 

Enchanting: Place orders via thralls and let us enchant & give back to thrall. Customer can pick up when it's ready, with an in-game notice of some sort.

 

Salvaging: Thralls

 

Decay: Yes, to an extent. Enough that you would probably want to get your kit fixed on a regular basis, until it's time to replace it.

 

Repair: My dad once told me that the best you can hope for from a fight is sore knuckles. Even if you win every fight, your gear takes damage. 

 

Vendors: I like having my wares available via a vendor. I also like the ability for a vendor to represent the crafters in taking an order, then the order sent to the thrall, who works with the crafter. Once complete, the finished goods go to the thrall or vendor for pick-up by the customer. Prepayment should be part of this if it is implemented.


Piikaa / Pkaoo

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Mass production - My real life time is my most valuable commodity. Don't make me spend 2 hours a night repairing gear for my guys out fighting instead of giving me a chance to do both. I like to build stuff, but I'm not a REMF. If I've got the resources, give me the opportunity to queue up and create stuff. Allow it to build while I'm offline. If I can train offline, why can't I craft offline? In fact, I'd be fine with allowing you to dedicate training time to creating items offline instead.

 

I like the idea of crafting and repairing while offline.  How about if you have a shop or structure you can set up as a crafter where players you authorize (or your guild) can deposit items and "you" will repair them at some certain rate (likely a slow rate with a queue order based on FIFO).  

 

Likewise for crafting.  I hope it takes a decent amount of time to create any single item, with longer crafting times for more advanced items.  That way you limit the # of items coming into the world and reinforce scarcity.  Perhaps the lower quality items of the same type can be crafted much more quickly, making them more commonly available and thus used.  Then, allow me to queue up build orders in my shop before I log off.  Perhaps even allow me to login via an app (android or ios) to queue additional crafting orders even if I can't login to the game using resources that I have deposited into my crafting structure.

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I like the idea of crafting and repairing while offline.  How about if you have a shop or structure you can set up as a crafter where players you authorize (or your guild) can deposit items and "you" will repair them at some certain rate (likely a slow rate with a queue order based on FIFO).  

 

Likewise for crafting.  I hope it takes a decent amount of time to create any single item, with longer crafting times for more advanced items.  That way you limit the # of items coming into the world and reinforce scarcity.  Perhaps the lower quality items of the same type can be crafted much more quickly, making them more commonly available and thus used.  Then, allow me to queue up build orders in my shop before I log off.  Perhaps even allow me to login via an app (android or ios) to queue additional crafting orders even if I can't login to the game using resources that I have deposited into my crafting structure.

such an app would be really nice for when between lessons or breaks at work et cetera, on a busy day where you have no time (or in the wrong location entirely) to boot-up, login and adjust.

 

The FIFO principle is pretty good, but I would love being able to set priorities if additional factors can be taken into account. something like making the same types of items in groups "because you already are working on this kind of thing" allowing some new orders to pop out faster because there were previous orders of a similar thing. The app could be a great way to assign these groupings and maybe even move a high/low priority item up or down the list depending on the "urgency" of its production and whether or not you want to hold a piece to make personally (if benefits for such a thing?).

 

 

After reading this FAQ I am considering maybe going a hybrid crafter route that would focus towards something like leather/light-type armours or accessories, more so if our construction choices can influence the end-result appearance. maybe an option to not reveal the crafters name for those who (for whatever reason) don't like the limelight or so they don't have to claim pieces they aren't proud of but are good enough to sell.

 

It's going to be quite fun making things and seeing where they go xD

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So obviously this is just a opinion about the various parts that the process gets broken in to, so no one should take it as though I'm some sort of industry professional. Though in my years of experience I've spent a lot of time thinking about what kind of infrastructure would be needed to promote a game world where you can make a name for yourself as something other than a fighter.

 

Resource Spawning I think the proposed model of having resource factories, that is, areas which are abundant in resources such that they produce is great for encouraging large scale battles, giving strategic options to the players in terms of regional control, and allowing disenfranchised players a way to participate meaningfully. However, I believe that there should be a certain amount of open world gathering as well. Amounts that generally wouldn't be worth the time investment to be gathered on its own by factions or large guilds, but enough that it would allow a player dropped naked and afraid into a hostile world to get a basic set of equipment or what have you. So far as this end goes I would think that certain elements would benefit from being gathering nodes (in a classic mmo sense) in itself. For instance, maybe that tree nearby is worth a small pittance of wood, or it could be worth nothing. It'd be odd to see myself surrounded by woods but unable to get a bit of resource out of it. In addition the limit of how many trees are around and the tremendous amount of time it takes a tree to grow would make it a non easily renewable resource, and reinforce the atmosphere of the hunger closing in, and the world dying as the campaign continuing and the resources being used up (perhaps as the hunger progressed trees would be worth less and less resource, have less of a chance to give any, and grow back slower if at all).

 

Harvesting So far as factories go, it should probably take some time to get producing and require a bit of management or maintenance to continue to produce. But as a whole be serviceable by a single person to a small cell. With regards with the node thing I mentioned above it should take a fair bit of time to take out portions of the world if not outright require a full guild effort round the clock effort to deforest by the acre.  

 

Harvesting Tools I don't have an opinion on this that I've thought through enough to really weigh in on.

 

Inventory Management I think the way you have it is pretty spot on, though I guess here is where I'd mention formal currency should be promoted. Perhaps having any metal ore able to be crafted into coin. Which in addition to being able to be stacked and carried in greater number then the ore itself would be able to be melted down into ore (of course at a heavy penalty to the return). This would allow bartering to feel natural while having a backing in a real commodity. The value of a coin is its cost in ore, meanwhile the stacking mechanic dissuades players from simply using the ore instead to avoid the smelting exchange rate. This allows gives it a way outside of being lost through exports to be removed from the economy. 

 

Recipes Sounds like you have it down pat to me. Having a base recipe that changes stats based on the material sounds amazing.

 

Hauling Resources Again no formal opinion, seems good to me though.

 

Refining Resources I really like the idea of being able to devout more time, effort, and/or resources in order to improve the quality of a crafted item. It gives another necessary depth required to make being a crafter a real possibility rather than just something you do on the side. Not much detail given about this yet but I expect great things.

 

Crafting Mini Game If the minigame can stay fresh, and the resulting item is effected by performance rather than just being a pass/fail I see this as an awesome thing. If not, it'll probably just be an annoyance in the process. Being able to be a craftsman because you ace that minigame is essential for it to feel meaningful in my opinion. As I mentioned earlier, having layers of skill and effort that determine not just whether or not you're a good crafter or a great one, but whether or not you are a awful, terrible, poor, mediocre, average, decent, above average, good, great, amazing, or legendary crafter is essential. A bit wordy but the point is crafters need to come in various layers of skill, if everyone can only be either bad or great, then no one can be legendary either.

 

Mass Production Dislike. Perhaps if the thralls make weapons of a lesser quality than the base used to make the pattern then it'll be fine. But it'd be silly to let you mass produce legendary blades. A blacksmith who's truly legendary and has truly set himself apart needs to attend to each blade him or herself. I would also argue that their name shouldn't be on a weapon they didn't make. Perhaps if it says 'Thralled by X' instead of 'Made by X' it'd make a strong enough difference.

 

Profession Interdependency Definitely in favor. One man should be an island within a single craft with the right level of dedication and know how. But a player who can craft everything or relies on no one for projects that are truly interdisciplinary (siege weapons for example) is not realistic or engaging. 

 

Enchanting Don't have enough details on the system yet but it seems like it'd be cool.

 

Salvaging Yep. Unwanted items need a way to be disposed of, and since NPC vendors would go against nearly every design philosophy for crowfall this is a great way to do it.

 

Decay Same thing as above, except regarding keeping the economy fluid. The ability to repair is also huge, it lets items persist through one durability cycle, however, the cost in max durability puts an inevitable timer on the items lifespan. Tuning will obviously need work but good stuff all around.

 

Repair The way you have it sounds good, losing durability as you repair and repairing more when you die with it more often. I posted in another thread about legendary blades that can be named being able to be displayed after its max durability goes below a certain threshold. I think there's a lot of possibility in making weapons that can serve as a historia up on a plague or something.

 

Vendors A big no for NPC vendors like a classic mmo, but I'm already with setting up a thrall to sell your wares for you.

Edited by xenryusho

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In place of the traditional 'auction house', when players set up personal markets, will we see some sort of search engine to see what is available for sale on players vendors, or will it be such that we have to bounce from world to world, checking inventories? I can see some possible issues with going either way. Players could, theoretically, set up ambushes around sales areas, baiting players with 'quality items at low, low discount prices" if PvP is enabled in that particular pocket world. Some sort of 'safe zone' around and leading to marketplaces would have to be in place to prevent this from becoming an issue. I can also see a lot of MIN/MAX'ing if players can peruse every stat on every item from the comfort of their own home on the Crowfall Home Shopping Network, so limiting available info on items for sale would encourage travel and exploration of player controlled lands.

I know you posted this a while back, but as someone who just got back to the forum for some months, I just had to comment. I remember back in Ultima Online, their was a certain amount of caution you had to have when a 'crafter' put up a moongate so you could follow them back to their vendor. There was always this nervous, "Is he leading me into an ambush? Will there be a bunch of PK'ers waiting for me if I follow him to the vendor at his house?". This can go either way for someone in terms of how fun/poorly made socksty this situation is. In my opinon, I really like the idea of a potential dangerous element being involved in going to make a deal/trade with someone. The more money involved, or the rarer the item the better. Some of the greatest memories I have in Ultima is hearing stories about a thief swiping the item off someone mid-transaction, or a botched ambush attempt on someone for their money.


“The difference between the quest for the Holy Grail and someone saying ‘bring me a cup’ is the flavor text and the number of stops involved.”
― Bryan Fields

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Entry 9 of the FAQ. (You read the first post in this thread, right?)

 

 

By choosing crafting-oriented vs combat-oriented promotion classes and disciplines, you'll be able to steer your character either towards a pure crafting build or a hybrid crafter+combat build.

 

I personally want to hear more about this hybrid crafter scenario. Personally I love combat and crafting, but I do not want to end up like I was in Null sec having to need multiple accounts to do crafting, combat, and hauling efficiently. Personally I would pay more to be able to do all that on one character than what I had to do with CCP's money draining effects on my wallet.

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Well, you have choices to make with your General training: you can only train one General skill at a time, so that can be either a crafting skill or a combat skill. Hauling will be under the exploration portion of the General tree so all 3 of those training goals are mutually exclusive: you can either split your time among multiple foci, or specialize in one area.

 

With that said, even while your General tree is training crafting or exploration skills, you'd also be training an archetype skill, and those are all combat oriented as far as we know. So even if your general training is completely focused on production skills you'd still have some comabt abilities as well assuming that your vessel is an archetype that you've trained for.

 

Realistically, though, if you had multiple accounts in Eve for different roles, you'll probably end up wanting to do the same thing in CF.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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MODS? Re: crafting mini-game.

 

I'm not sure where to put this, so I'll query here.

 

As a disabled lass with brain damage, I will always be at a disadvantage within a pvp game....

 

"Parry, attack, defend, slash, headbutt, headbutt, go in for the kill..... OWN DEATH FROM RANDOM SPASM!"

 

I still have fun, but only because I can laugh at myself and enjoy other aspects of the game.

 

I'd love it if the digital worlds, wouldn't lock me out the same way that real life does, I appreciate realism, but play games to avoid it sometimes, so would you possibly consider my toons having the same chance as the toons of any abled body player? By which I mean, could you not rely on reflexes or physical skill within any mini-game?

 

With thanks

 

Ps if this is the wrong place, please tell me :D

Edited by Mother_Fable

Ex-Member of :   Lf6MJUL.png  Re-applying soon!


 

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yes please, make the crafting afk so everyone can buy X accounts and be a master crafter and make sure every resource is available in overabundance so everyone can focus on the pvp aspect of the game.


Dear ace, it was wrong of me to feel scammed, as time goes by, I realize that more and more. Thank you for letting me sell my account!

-a very satisfied customer-

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