Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
lethality

The Path To Crafting...

Recommended Posts

Yesterday's character progression update was nice & meaty! Overall it sound really interesting with lots of options. However, as one @TullyAckland knows, I feel it might have been a little light on the crafting side of things. :)
 
All of the Promotion class and expanded Discipline examples listed were for combat. There are are few items in the Discipline list that could be crafting/gathering related:

  • Collector
  • Lapidary
  • Stonecutter

If crafting and/or harvesting can be a primary play style, I am curious about what it means to start and progress on that path.
 
Becoming a crafter doesn't appear to be something you choose at character creation - there aren't crafter archetypes, per se.  It seems players have to at least work up to their Promotion class, and then work on their Disciplines via collection of runestones. It's not clear if you can collect runestones for a given Discipline from the start of the game, or if you have to have earned a Promotion class first.
 
Todd replied to be on Twitter when I asked about crafting progression:

https://twitter.com/jtoddcoleman/status/576473419841081344
 

"same system, but with more recipes / less powers"

 

 

So it sounds like it will be a tradeoff... instead of collecting abilities or powers, you'll decide to collect recipes.  Personally, I'd love to see crafting abilities... if I can choose to train "Shield Bash Rank 7", it would be nice if there were similar choices for crafters/harvesters, such as "Fillet Rank 6" or "PickAxe Mastery Rank 7".  

 

Additionally, it was described so far that the "number" of recipes will be like 10% of a traditional MMO due to the way players can work with materials. The "Plate Helm" recipe accepts many inputs, required and optional, and will create all manner of Plate Helms. So once you have that recipe, are there things you can do or earn to get "better" at making Plate Helms (of any type, or of a specific type?)

 

I don't want to make this post too long, but wanted to get the ball rolling on what it means to be a full-time crafter in Crowfall... how you get there... and what your day-to-day gameplay is going to be like!

 

Anxious to hear everyone's thoughts.

Edited by lethality

zjsbjmn.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are correct sir, they should implement at least one crafter class, or promotion class for crafters. That way, those who enjoy crafting above all (like me), would be able to specialize in what we like most.

 

Personally I'll chose all the crafting recipes from the beginning, and rely on the strong arm of my friends for the combat aspect of the game.

Is a perfect society, I bring goods and spare parts, they bring the carnage.

 

Besides you don't need to be strong, fast or have a powerful armor, to obtain power..

 

 

ZqMzHlT.png

 

Edited by Viktor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's funny, I saw the Stoneborn Forgemaster as the crafting archetype ever since it was first revealed.  The fact that he was revealed as a support Archetype immediately raised my "he supplies weapons" flag instead of the "LoL bot lane support character" flag.

 

Now, while we indeed do not start with cool crafting specialization discipline Runestones, discipline Runestones are not a requirement for crafting.  They Devs have told us all archetypes start with some crafting recipes to get us started.  I will be searching for crafting Runestones like mad though, but I still don't know what crafting Discipline I'm going to take, it is so frustrating yet exciting.

 

I definitely know I want my Forgemaster to be a miner, so I will probably end up taking a Prospector discipline (It has not been announced, got it from Shadowbane site), a Discipline like the Cavalier Discipline which will make my Forgemaster hard to take down, and one Blacksmithing Discipline (Weaponsmith or Armorsmith).

 

This way my character can harvest, craft, and keep himself alive as well as his allies while everyone else focuses on killing the bad guys.

 

I am personally really happy that Disciplines are so restricted.  There are many to choose from, but you can only join three groups.  Only people willing to sacrifice other strengths may become the less popular experts on Crafting and Utility Disciplines, PvP power players will be incapable of becoming as good as me because they will choose to go all combat).

 

I can't wait to hear more on crafting though, I am always hungry for more.


How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The focus of the game is still PvP, so I assume that archetypes and promotions will still lean toward PvP and combat.  I feel that some archetypes will start with some basic crafts, like blacksmithing for the forgemaster and maybe a leatherworking skill for druid or ranger.

 

I think your main crafting skills and abilities will come from Disciplines.  Those disciplines will be something you swap out when you're not currently fighting (I do believe disciplines can be changed).


 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The focus of the game is still PvP, so I assume that archetypes and promotions will still lean toward PvP and combat.  I feel that some archetypes will start with some basic crafts, like blacksmithing for the forgemaster and maybe a leatherworking skill for druid or ranger.

 

I think your main crafting skills and abilities will come from Disciplines.  Those disciplines will be something you swap out when you're not currently fighting (I do believe disciplines can be changed).

 

If they work similarly to Shadowbane, then yes, they can however some of the rarer / more popular runes will get very expensive. Don't expect to just switch them in and out at will.

 

EDIT;

 

Can my Disciplines be changed? 

Yes, you can overwrite existing Discipline Runestones with new ones. Doing so will remove or reduce the benefits granted by the previous Discipline, and destroy the old one in the process.

 

Yes, it works the same as Shadowbane.

Edited by M0rdred

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The focus of the game is still PvP, so I assume that archetypes and promotions will still lean toward PvP and combat.  I feel that some archetypes will start with some basic crafts, like blacksmithing for the forgemaster and maybe a leatherworking skill for druid or ranger.

 

I think your main crafting skills and abilities will come from Disciplines.  Those disciplines will be something you swap out when you're not currently fighting (I do believe disciplines can be changed).

 

Well, I dunno. If you believe what they are saying, you should be able to be a full-time crafter. If designed well, you should not want a crafter to assume a combat role. There should never be a moment where his combat is more important than his crafting. Because by design, his combat will always be weaker. But I don't want to get into that in this thread.

 

But what I'm curious about since we do not see crafting Archetypes or Promotion classes... is how the game plays for a dedicated crafter mindset from the start. And then some crafting Discipline examples (like they gave for combat) and finally, some discussion about the moment-to-moment gameplay or crafters during a campaign.


zjsbjmn.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Especially in a game that starts like the first turn of Civ. with item decay and the need to build some kind of infrastructure as the seasons match to Winter, it makes sense to me to allow dedicated crafters. To me that option increases the PVP for hose who want it, as gatherers and caravans etc will definitely need protection from both hunger creatures and the opposing sides. Maybe it's less viable in the dregs, but definitely a cool idea. Makes me think of the times I had to get escorts while mining in Eve, it really would tie crafters to their guild protectors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt that they'll make a crafting archtype as they've stressed so very much that CF is  PvP centric.  However they are adding propensities towards different crafting abilities in the basic structures of some of the archtypes and that seems to be a decent compromise.


pixS8Wt.jpg


The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It like current military standards...you can be a technician or a medic, but you still have to be combat proficient. In many cases, a combat engineer is a fully trained fighting machine PLUS a 'crafter' on top of everything else.

 

Well, that would fail on the promise of full-time crafting. It would mean crafting is a second-class activity, or worse, busy-work. It be necessary busy-work, but that makes it even worse. Without an interesting primary progression system, I wouldn't consider full time crafting an actual feature.

 

My opinion is that a crafter should never be pulled to fight on the front lines; in fact, intense fighting should mean that he has to double-down on his own skills and gameplay.


zjsbjmn.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you believe what they are saying, you should be able to be a full-time crafter.

 

I actually don't believe a lot of what they are saying.

 

 

Well, that would fail on the promise of full-time crafting. It would mean crafting is a second-class activity, or worse, busy-work. It be necessary busy-work, but that makes it even worse. Without an interesting primary progression system, I wouldn't consider full time crafting an actual feature.

 

My opinion is that a crafter should never be pulled to fight on the front lines; in fact, intense fighting should mean that he has to double-down on his own skills and gameplay.

 

Do you really feel that full-time crafting will be a fun, profitable, and enjoyable way to spend your time in Crowfall?  Will you honestly enjoy sitting in your Eternal Kingdom, waiting on people to bring you materials (which supposedly can only happen once a campaign is completed, and even then if your guildmates/friends actually win and export something) so that you can make them a few items?  And even then they have to join another campaign which allows importing of gear?

 

Even if you do travel to a campaign in order to craft for your guild, do you truly believe that you will be able to avoid all forms of combat and safely craft for a month or longer?

 

I never suggested front-line fighting in my original response.  I suggested that a crafter should be prepared to fight because the focus of the game is still PvP.


 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what it sounds like, the baseline Archetypes will have a certain set of generic skills available to them and you can choose which ones you want to specialize in. 

 

An example would be the Forgemaster.

 

They have their support trees but, also a blacksmithing tree. From what we know so far it sounds like promotion classes can only be reached after attaining enough baseline skills to unlock them.

 

So a person who wants to focus on crafting will just skill down the blacksmithing tree until they unlock the promotions. Then, they either continue to learn crafting skills or they choose advanced combat professions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually thinking about it from Shadowbane, the disciplines my main character had were all support (Bounty Hunter, Prospector and Commander) and it didn't massively impact his combat viability. From the sounds of it, we will likely lose out on maybe 15-25% (out of 175%) of a combat skill in exchange for the ability to craft.

 

Therefore, we won't be peak combat efficiency, but certainly no pushover either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I plan to explore crafting early as a potential focus for at least one of my main characters, if not all of them.

 

Even so, I don't mind that every Archetype is defined by their combat role.

 

From what I remember of the lore, the characters are Heroes chosen by the gods to be their champions based on their great deeds while they lived out their mortal life.

 

Heroes.

 

Those who devoted their entire mortal life to their craft will be found as Thralls, granting or enhancing the crafting abilities of our characters.


soli deo gloria

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you really feel that full-time crafting will be a fun, profitable, and enjoyable way to spend your time in Crowfall?

Can it be? Yes. Will it be? Jury is still out.

 

Will you honestly enjoy sitting in your Eternal Kingdom, waiting on people to bring you materials (which supposedly can only happen once a campaign is completed, and even then if your guildmates/friends actually win and export something) so that you can make them a few items?  And even then they have to join another campaign which allows importing of gear?

That's not the vision at all. I want to be actively crafting in the campaigns... supplying my team with armor and weapons, maybe food... spending time building and reinforcing fortifications. Who knows what else?

 

That's the crafting vision that I believe aligns with the Crowfall vision. But I want there to be equally interesting progression and gameplay for my play style as there is for combat.

 

Being a full-time crafter will mean participating in the campaigns as much as a combat player. It's not about sitting in the EK at all.

 

Do you truly believe that you will be able to avoid all forms of combat and safely craft for a month or longer?

Of course not, but this is where teamwork comes into play. If my crafting role is so important (as it should be) then the team will have to afford me protection. If I die, and they lose their entire cache of armor that I've been building up, what then does that mean for their chances at success?

 

 

I never suggested front-line fighting in my original response.  I suggested that a crafter should be prepared to fight because the focus of the game is still PvP.

Defense, mitigation, escape, maybe.

 

All characters should be prepared to fight, by the very nature of the game. But that doesn't mean the nature of the game is that all characters should fight.

 


zjsbjmn.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am somewhat torn.

 

I think they can do full out crafting, as it seems to be done right now.

If there are a few archetypes that have some kind of crafting specialization (as the Stoneborn) we might actually see a bit of a variance in crafters.

 

The difference become how you spend your passive training.

If you go full out on crafting on day one, and you can keep spending points for as long as a full combat spec, then everything is fine.

But, that would also mean that crafting would have to be diverse enough, that you can't have every single craft as a crafter. Just like you wont be able to do every kind of combat (equally) with all achetypes.

There should be enough room to specialize and still not be able to do everything.

 

If crafting is half of what combat is, then we are going to have a problem.

Because that just means that a full crafter/combat spec will be the norm at some point down the line.

Basically, everyone will be a crafter at some point.

 

Under the current system, there will have to be some major tradeoff to become a master crafter.

AND it would have to have some kind of meaning to be maxed in your choosen field(s).

If you need to have 3 disciplines slotted to be able to do a full craft (with gathering of some sort), then fine. Most won't go that way.

But, if the difference between having them slotted or not, is only 25 to 50 skill points in the max, then I am not sure it is enough.

 

We want people to be able to craft in general (or I do)

Crafters should not be the new healers. People should be able to get by without having a specialized crafter.

But, it should make a difference if someone choose to be one.

 

This is where I am split.

I would LOVE to be able to function in more than one role.

And I think everyone should be able to.

When I say funtion, I don't mean being the best. More along the line of being able to do something else also.

My little dream would be that I could be a scout, gather and crafter, with all my passive training going into crafting.

I would have to choose an achetype that would help me scout. Fast and sneaky maybe. And then build my crafting up on that.

This starts to become a little tricky with an archetype that is only based on crafting.

 

However, if they DO decide to make an archetype based on crafting and it DOES turn out that we wont have much to do besides starting a crafting project, then I am sure I (and many others) will just buy a second box and have both. Which would be a shame.


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I admit I had somewhat forgotten about passive skilling, though that doesn't change my answer very much and infact possibly improves the experience for the better. If we talk about this in Eve terms (which is probably the closest comparable skill-set), then Crafters could either fully invest in crafting, therefore being able to draw on a wide variety of methods and materials (asteroid mining, ice mining, manufacture, science in Eve), or they can be hybrid (asteroid mining and battle cruisers for example). Compare this to the more combat focused players would be able to get into Battleships or even Capital ships in an equivalent amount of time. 

 

You are right in there needing to be this massive depth of different crafting activities, though for it to be comparable to combat. This makes the Player choose precisely what skills to focus on, and then have the ability to mix and match from among them to best suit their playstyle. Eve benefited from there being mining / science / trade / manufacturing skills, so we shall see whether Crowfall will be able to meet that parity. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...