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Andius

What Things Would You Like To See Given There Are No Primary Healers?

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As someone who very often plays a healer, no primary healers is kind of a sad thing to see from some aspects it does open up a lot of options.

 

For instance health stealing and health regeneration. How much do you care about those kind of things when most of your health is being spewed at you by a dedicated healer? How much do you care in a single player game or MOBA where you don't have that?

 

Lets talk about mechanics we'd like to see that are actually relevant because of the lack of primary healers.

 

I'll start.

 

Werewolves should be able to feed on the corpses of most fleshy creatures to regenerate health like in Skyrim, and possibly even have some bite based attacks that steal health from the opponent mid-battle.

What would I like to see?

 

Hmm.

 

I think it depends on whether or not self-healing will be the primary method of regaining health on the battlefield. Will it become standard for each front-line fighter to equip some sort of healing ability or keep them in their inventory (food/potions, etc)? Or, will those fighters depend on the healing of another player or players? ACE has been pretty clear that there won't be any "firehose" healers (i.e., standing in the back constantly refilling everybody's health bar). However, there will be support classes that will have healing skills but at this time we are not told of how exactly they will work or how effective they are.  Once we get a taste of whether or not healing will be everybody's responsibility or a specific group within our team, we'll have a better idea.

 

Personally, I think the OP's werewolf idea is pretty good suggestion, by the way.

Edited by arawulf

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Eh. I've always subscribed to the philosophy of it's interesting, discuss it. Forums are just another form of entertainment after all. Besides I'm the OP, I have the right to derail my own thread! Lol

 

Back to the original subject I fully believe there will be character variety in CF.

 

I'm just hoping they change the feel of combat because honestly the one where you are DPSing directly against the HPS of the opposing team is tired out.

Edited by andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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What would I like to see?

 

Hmm.

 

I think it depends on whether or not self-healing will be the primary method of regaining health on the battlefield. Will it become standard for each front-line fighter to equip some sort of healing ability or keep them in their inventory (food/potions, etc)? Or, will those fighters depend on the healing of another player or players? ACE has been pretty clear that there won't be any "firehose" healers (i.e., standing in the back constantly refilling everybody's health bar). However, there will be support classes that will have healing skills but at this time we are not told of how exactly they will work or how effective they are.  Once we get a taste of whether or not healing will be everybody's responsibility or a specific group within our team, we'll have a better idea.

 

Personally, I think the OP's werewolf idea is pretty good suggestion, by the way.

I have no desire for all classes to be able to self heal... If we have no firehouse healing fine but lets not let everyone have the ability to heal.

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well no matter what they do about healers

I would hate there to be self healing for all

It should be a feature of a class where self healing makes sense

 

E.G. I would hate a champion to have self healing, let him hit like a truck and avoid/absorb a heap of damage, but let him DIE when he DIES

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And I wouldn't mind if healing was banned entirely.  This is basically a TPS-RPG (third person shooter).

 

Healing is unnecessary... just need more bullets (damage), armor (tank), and flashbangs (support).

Edited by Kyutaru

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For me the biggest issue with self healing is the leeching that comes because of the abilty to self heal.. There is a group battle going oni you jump in pop off a few shots maybe even KS a guy, they start attacking you so you sprint away... self heal then rejoin the fight.. 


And I wouldn't mind if healing was banned entirely.  This is basically an TPS-RPG... healing unnecessary just more bullets, armor, and flashbangs.

no tactics just rinse and repeat combat? ... no desire to play COD

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And I wouldn't mind if healing was banned entirely.  This is basically an TPS-RPG... healing unnecessary just more bullets, armor, and flashbangs.

 

 

But why stop there... ban CC ban buffs band debuffs

 

I would hate for healing to be removed altogether, its just one more colour removed from the rainbow of a good MMO

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I think all classes should have the option to self heal because some of it will be item/discipline based. I just don't think it should be a no-brainer for every class. For instance I know in EVE some people didn't take repair modules or shield boosters because their strategy was to have a high HP pool and really powerful DPS so they chould chew through their opponent's defenses before they needed to heal themselves. I believe it was called "buffer tanking". Everyone had the option to mount repair modules though.

Edited by andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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no tactics just rinse and repeat combat? ... no desire to play COD

 

LOL if you think tactics require health restoration.  It's the same formula every MMO already has, just without the ability to keep going without pausing to recover.  Attrition is an important element of strategy games.  Wounded soldiers must return to the medics in the back lines, not continue pressing forward with reckless abandon.

 

But why stop there... ban CC ban buffs band debuffs

 

I would hate for healing to be removed altogether, its just one more colour removed from the rainbow of a good MMO

Because there's a point you do need to stop at, or you may as well keep going until tanks, dps, and even the gameboard itself is removed and players just press the "You Win" button repeatedly to inject feelings of happiness directly into their cortex.

 

Chess doesn't need healing to be fun.  Real-time strategy games don't either, you just build new units to replace fallen ones (respawn).

Edited by Kyutaru

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LOL if you think tactics require health restoration.  It's the same formula every MMO already has, just without the ability to keep going without pausing to recover.  Attrition is an important element of strategy games.  Wounded soldiers must return to the medics in the back lines, not continue pressing forward with reckless abandon.

 

 

One thing that forces tactical play is a differentiation between units

ONE way to make this happen is with healers

 

others are tanks, CC support/debuffs AOE and more

 

The games that make this look bad are the ones that DONT do this, where all can heal CC DPS tank and what ever

Edited by steppenwolf

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Counters is the answer to that. You have something like a "scourge healing" ability that makes it so that when you try to heal yourself you take damage. If everyone runs healing this ability becomes commonplace and screws them all over. If everyone buffer tanks this ability is useless and so nobody runs it, so people start using healing again. It will balance itself out.


"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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Counters is the answer to that. You have something like a "scourge healing" ability that makes it so that when you try to heal yourself you take damage. If everyone runs healing this ability becomes commonplace and screws them all over. If everyone buffer tanks this ability is useless and so nobody runs it, so people start using healing again. It will balance itself out.

Counters are what make a game fun, and i agree with your scourge healing thing.. in Daoc there was disease it would cut healing in half ( awesome abilty when fighting a group without a healer ) 

 

I think at the core of it for some of us Healing is jsut the part of a game that we enjoy and we can make any number of reasons why we should have a healing class, and others can do the same for the class they enjoy.. I hate not having a healing class because it is the part of the game i enjoy. 

 

Yet if there is no firehouse healing i would prefer a few support/hybrid classes with some sort of group healing via chants/dmg or hots compared to everyone with the abilty to self heal.. i think self healing is just blah... Stealthers with the ability to heal themselves? ugh

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One thing that forces tactical play is a differentiation between units

ONE way to make this happen is with healers

 

others are tanks, CC support/debuffs AOE and more

 

The games that make this look bad are the ones that DONT do this, where all can heal CC DPS tank and what ever

I'm not following with where you're heading here.  You're essentially confirming that a game can have tactical diversity even without healers.  What it will have more of is attrition.

 

Maybe I can paint this into an easier picture...

 

All a game needs for tactics is:

- Bullets (damage)

- Armor (mitigation)

- Flashbangs (support)

 

You don't need to have all three of those on the same class.  Where the FPS genre has succeeded is in creating different mixes of these tools.  The frontline "tank" with heavy amounts of armor (mitigation) and a shotgun (melee dps) but no support abilities.  The long distance sniper with his high powered slow recasting time bullets (damage) and no armor to speak of, sometimes support powers.  The combat engineer with his terrible armor, accuracy, bullet capacity, and lots of support tools (mines/repair/drones).  Along with all the hybrids in between (mid-bullets/mid-armor/low-support, high-bullets/high-armor/immobile-stance, etc).  Truly for this type of targeting system, it's just a slower version of modern shooters.

 

Try playing a match of TF2 and say there isn't any strategy involved with the class breakdown and synergies.

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I'm not following with where you're heading here.  You're essentially confirming that a game can have tactical diversity even without healers.  What it will have more of is attrition.

 

Maybe I can paint this into an easier picture...

 

All a game needs for tactics is:

- Bullets (damage)

- Armor (mitigation)

- Flashbangs (support)

 

You don't need to have all three of those on the same class.  Where the FPS genre has succeeded is in creating different mixes of these tools.  The frontline "tank" with heavy amounts of armor (mitigation) and a shotgun (melee dps) but no support abilities.  The long distance sniper with his high powered slow recasting time bullets (damage) and no armor to speak of, sometimes support powers.  The combat engineer with his terrible armor, accuracy, bullet capacity, and lots of support tools (mines/repair/drones).  Along with all the hybrids in between (mid-bullets/mid-armor/low-support, high-bullets/high-armor/immobile-stance, etc).  Truly for this type of targeting system, it's just a slower version of modern shooters.

 

Try playing a match of TF2 and say there isn't any strategy involved with the class breakdown and synergies.

sounds like rinse and repeat battle grounds play to me.. CoD style pvp .. no thanks.

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What I am saying is very easy to follow

 

There are 5,6,7 ways to force tactical play withing the archetypes designers have created for MMOs

I question the need to remove ONE of them because its use upsets DPS focused players

 

I would rather MORE diversity than less

Removing heals is just one more notch taken out of the trinity

While FPS games are adding more, MMOs removing them and I disagree with that design approach

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sounds like rinse and repeat battle grounds play to me.. CoD style pvp .. no thanks.

In no way is this even remotely similar.  By that logic, every time you went out into the open world to PVP without a healer, you were engaging in fake battleground CoD pvp because healers define what is and is not pvp.

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In no way is this even remotely similar.  By that logic, every time you went out into the open world to PVP without a healer, you were engaging in fake battleground CoD pvp because healers define what is and is not pvp.

 

Absolutist and not what he is saying at all

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Here is a question for those who dont want healers in Crowfall (or support that supply healing > DPS)

 

Do you want tanks that are almost impossible for several DPS to drop in any reasonable time frame ?

Do you want CC that can lock you down till their frinds show up and kick your %$#@

Do you want buffers/debuffers that can leave you as week as a kitten and ab le to be killed by the gatherer toon you were about to gank ?

Do you want Mind control characters that can take over your toon (or that sand giant over there)  and grind you into the dirt ?

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