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High End Equipment Ramifications


queltan
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In typical games, specially those with a PvP focus, crafters are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to combat but with the sheer amount of item decay and loss that will be present I'm wondering how big the bonus gap will be between tier 1 regular gear and the best stuff. Could two players of equal player skill, one with combat skills and tier one gear and a crafter with minimal combat skill but the best gear, have an even fight or will one be far above the other. It seems if the best gear doesn't give a large advantage to the wearer then it probably isn't worth crafting most of the time. If it does give immense advantages then it makes playing a crafter that much more of an effective and fun choice. Thoughts?

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Its a difficult balance. If gear confers big bonuses, then it will need to be cheap to craft too - else people will never wear it for fear of losing it. Conversely, if gear is cheap and poor then we'll just end up with thousands of naked people fighting because actually buying equipment will be pointless.

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1)

you are assuming a wrong premise.

should a combat crazy centaur with poorly made socksty equip have the same combat-efficiency as a guinecean who's completely focused on crafting but has top tier equip?

definitely no!

the question you need to ask is,how much of a difference will equip make,if 2 character,which are exactly the same(except equip) fight each other.

and in that case equip definitely should matter a lot.

 

2)

 

i kinda doubt that someone who's managed to become such a top tier crafter,has the time to worry and participate in PvP a lot.

form what it looks like crafter will e important because of decay and the importance of items they produce.(not just equip)

no guild or town will run without having a minimal industrial backbone,that is made up of crafter who get their supplies done by other,who have their shop guarded by others so they can fully focus on crafting and keep the gears turning.

Edited by kampfbock
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Its a difficult balance. If gear confers big bonuses, then it will need to be cheap to craft too - else people will never wear it for fear of losing it. Conversely, if gear is cheap and poor then we'll just end up with thousands of naked people fighting because actually buying equipment will be pointless.

 

There is a way this can be made to work.

 

If gear confers nice bonuses but the cost is proportionate then people will pick the gear they use as part of a reasonable risk/reward balance. If they are doing something really risky and only moderately important they'll pack cheaper & less effective gear. If something is low risk and/or very important they'll pack their best gear to maximize their odds of success. 

 

They'll almost certainly have to tweak the cost/benefit for crafted gear as time goes on but there is a lot of middle ground between the two extremes that you suggest.

 

CopperStall

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I tend to agree with kampfbock here, I think any time a player takes combat skills over crafting skills it should be a meaningful trade-off. There may be some kind of consumable crafted items that give advantages like...rocket boots or something along those lines but, if you're a full blown 100% crafter, you shouldn't have anything more than basic Archetype skills. You're basically as useful in battle as a farmer with a pitchfork....you might kill somebody but, it was probably luck.

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I think this will vary from campaign to campaign AND depend on what pois are being controlled by the group that is getting things crafted.

 

What I mean is, that it will be relative.

 

In a campaign with plenty of low end resources and very few high end, people might not want to use their best gear.

On the other hand, if your guild is controlling all the rare resources and there are plenty of them, it won't matter much.

 

If you are talking EKs... then I am out

 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Gear crafted with the rarest, refined reagents, and enchanted with the proper Thralls will have to grant substantial bonuses, especially given gear decay, in order to motivate players to make and use it.

 

The way I see it, players won't necessarily need to be decked out in the best possible gear in order to fight it out, until their enemies' overall economy gets strong enough to give them that edge.

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Armor and weapon quality use will depend highly on the resources.  Guilds that fight and defend their resource gathering, along with winning campaigns, will obviously afford the higher tiered gear.  I suspect that most will be wearing the middle tiered gear within campaigns and showcase their best gear in the EKs.  The best gear will be seen mostly in the last-character-standing (king of the campaign survival) campaign rulesets.

 

Besides, ACE is making it appear that our best crafted items isn't a 1:1 craft either.  It may require 10:1 or even with the higher end stuff, 30-50:1.  That's a lot of resources to craft a final piece.  Players won't want to risk losing that in combat (to decay or loot rules).

 

Like others mentioned, most PvP battles won't be decided by gear as much as it will by skill and tactics.

> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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From the latest update;

 

 

Relics are “Player and City” rewards. Relics offer similar blessings, but can only be utilized by a smaller number of players – they can be placed inside of the buildings in the cities or villages of your Eternal Kingdom. Relics can be collected in Campaigns or crafted using rare reagents.

 

So this is really interesting. We'll have the ability to produce some of the super high-level items too, not just equipment.

Edited by M0rdred
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From the latest update;

 

 

 

So this is really interesting. We'll have the ability to produce some of the super high-level items too, not just equipment.

 

This isn't new to me, of course we were going to be able to craft high level items, all items are crafted by players and high level items exist in the game, therefore players can craft high level items.  Now of course artifacts are given to players, but they are the exception, not the rule.

 

As for the difference in equipment power, low level equipment will be accessible but not free, fighting naked will be unviable, higher level equipment is significantly more expensive and gives a low degree of advantage against low level equipment (To make low level equipment worthwhile).

 

I think it will be fairly easy to implement a equipment tier system where all equipment tiers are viable.

How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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I don't think that it will be that high level gear will be more expensive (outside of the standard time = money effect) so much as it will just be more effort to get the better materials.  A low end Plate Helm has the same raw material cost as a high end one (3 metal, 1 cloth, 1 leather, 1 flux, 1 optional additive),it's just the quallity of the ingredients that make the difference.

 

I think we'll see teams scrambling as fast as they can to get better quality ingredients for their crafters. (in Campaign)  The better the gear, the better the crushing of foes.

 

I'm looking forward to see how they implement it all, but I expect to see a sweet feedback loop of; Get good materials to get good gear to get better materials to get better gear ...

Edited by Reliq
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I don't think that it will be that high level gear will be more expensive (outside of the standard time = money effect) so much as it will just be more effort to get the better materials.  A low end Plate Helm has the same raw material cost as a high end one (3 metal, 1 cloth, 1 leather, 1 flux, 1 optional additive),it's just the quallity of the ingredients that make the difference.

 

I think we'll see teams scrambling as fast as they can to get better quality ingredients for their crafters. (in Campaign)  The better the gear, the better the crushing of foes.

 

I'm looking forward to see how they implement it all, but I expect to see a sweet feedback loop of; Get good materials to get good gear to get better materials to get better gear ...

 

Rare higher quality materials = higher material cost.... they are definitely not the same in value.  Put high quality gear on a low quality fighter won't make any difference at all.  The rarer materials will be in the most intense PvP campaigns... so it definitely won't be a walk in the park and the guilds will have a very high value on those rare materials... than to just burn through it all for armor that may get quickly lost in the next campaign.

> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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Rare higher quality materials = higher material cost.... they are definitely not the same in value.  Put high quality gear on a low quality fighter won't make any difference at all.  The rarer materials will be in the most intense PvP campaigns... so it definitely won't be a walk in the park and the guilds will have a very high value on those rare materials... than to just burn through it all for armor that may get quickly lost in the next campaign.

 

True enough.  But the next campaign you enter might be a start naked ruleset. And if it's not, you want to wear the best you have that you're willing to loose.  There's definitely a risk/reward decision in there.

 

A guild definitely has to priortitize how to utilize their resources.  But I think we'll see gear in a Campaign ramp up in quality as fast as possible. The main limiting factors being the amount, quality, and reliability of resource sources.

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A lot of those strategies will start to be kept private within guilds as we go through the alphas.  As it is, I've scaled back a lot of my replies recently and retaining more strategic posts for our private guild forums.

> Suddenly, a Nyt appears in the discussion...

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