Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
bronko

Nice Reticle Aiming

Recommended Posts

I read somewhere that the reticle aiming is currently being worked on.

 

I hope there will be different turning speeds for each class, as that would add another layer towards a  more strategic combat system.

Now what kind of reticule aiming for ranged combat would work in that case?

 

I think as soon as you go into shooting/spellcasting mode (unsheath your bow/spellstaff) you should have a free moving reticle.

Your screen/field of vision will follow the reticle at a certain speed in order to have it back in the middle. That speed could vary, depending on your dexterity.

Like this you could adjust the turning speed in aiming mode, because if you move to fast, the reticle will be at the border of the screen and you'll have to wait for the screen to follow. I'm not saying it should be really slow, but capped at a certain speed.

 

I think this is a pretty important point because combat in crowfall should be more strategic and slow paced.

And not have a messy combat like in DF where you can run around like crazy, attacking and shooting 360° at lightning speed.

 

What do you think?

 

Edit:

On second thought there is an alternative that would might even be better, which I describe on page 2.

Basically two reticles, one where you would like to aim (camera) and a second one which represents where you are actually aiming, and takes a little time to align with the first one.

This is often used in action games for tanks or turret sequences.

For Crowfall it should feel more responsive than shooting with a tank of course :)

 

Edit 2:

Or let's just keep it simple:

Free camera mouse mouvement, 1 reticle

As long as the character has not lined up with the camera angle and is still turning, make the reticle big, the aim would be inexact. And once the character has settled down, the reticle would be small and precise.

Edited by bronko

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I prefer playing on higher sensitivity in video games, and while this sounds good on paper, I think it might just feel like playing on low sensitivity.


SR8DSig_Infynis.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I prefer faster combat as it requires more skill. 

 

I prefer slower so I can actually think about what I'm doing. Leads to more interesting moves and counter moves instead of just knee jerks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not interested in an overly precise game, as it has been addressed in ACE responses as well, I wouldn't expect it either. Slowing down turning speed significantly isn't really appropriate either though, in a reticle aiming system, tracking can be hard enough, animation locking can slow down projectile actions the same way as it does with melee.

 

With something like a FCS they could cap turn speed in general to a fair degree while maintaining an effective level of target acquisition.

Edited by BahamutKaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I prefer slower so I can actually think about what I'm doing. Leads to more interesting moves and counter moves instead of just knee jerks. 

I prefer fast games that have all that level of tactical depth as well but also mechanical skill requirement on top of it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I prefer fast games that have all that level of tactical depth as well but also mechanical skill requirement on top of it. 

 

There is definitely a sweet point balance to it. Just where that sits though, will depend on the player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is definitely a sweet point balance to it. Just where that sits though, will depend on the player.

 

I think the cool thing is that we'll be able to pick to some extent. Do you want to 100% be part of a group? Or roam as a free agent? Will you be collecting materials and hoarding them yourself? Or waiting along roads to steal from others? Will you concentrate on building a mass store up for yourself? Or sabotage other groups in their efforts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NOOOoooooo.

 

If i'm going to be aiming with my mouse, I want no limitations on how fast I can move it, and no acceleration. Give me 60fps of raw unedited mouse input directly translated to camera movement, or don't include it at all.

 

Just Cause 2 tried that. It was AWFUL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NOOOoooooo.

 

If i'm going to be aiming with my mouse, I want no limitations on how fast I can move it, and no acceleration. Give me 60fps of raw unedited mouse input directly translated to camera movement, or don't include it at all.

 

Just Cause 2 tried that. It was AWFUL.

 

I'm not sure if Just Cause 2 had that kind of system, I just remember it had some kind of auto-aim where the reticle jumped on the target, and yes that would be horrible.

 

But with a semi-free-aiming system like I described, you would still have free mouse movement, but limited by your field of vision which would have a capped speed. With very swift characters that cap would be barely noticeable, but I don't think you should be able to shoot and turn round 360° completely freely.

 

If you combine this with a general WASD turning speed also for melee combat, the result would be a pretty decent approach to a more strategically oriented combat system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if Just Cause 2 had that kind of system, I just remember it had some kind of auto-aim where the reticle jumped on the target, and yes that would be horrible.

 

But with a semi-free-aiming system like I described, you would still have free mouse movement, but limited by your field of vision which would have a capped speed. With very swift characters that cap would be barely noticeable, but I don't think you should be able to shoot and turn round 360° completely freely.

 

If you combine this with a general WASD turning speed also for melee combat, the result would be a pretty decent approach to a more strategically oriented combat system.

 

Just Cause 2 limited the speed at which you could turn, exactly like you are suggesting. I know, cause I had to mod it out before I could actually enjoy the game properly.

 

Artificially gimping players who can perform skillful maneuvers quickly and calling it 'strategy based' is a fundamentally flawed approach. I don't see the game using fps mouse aim at all, but if it did, this system would be downright harmful to the game, horrible to play with, and would likely cause a lot of people to stop playing because of it..

 

I appreciate your contribution, but this is a bad idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just Cause 2 limited the speed at which you could turn, exactly like you are suggesting. I know, cause I had to mod it out before I could actually enjoy the game properly.

 

Artificially gimping players who can perform skillful maneuvers quickly and calling it 'strategy based' is a fundamentally flawed approach. I don't see the game using fps mouse aim at all, but if it did, this system would be downright harmful to the game, horrible to play with, and would likely cause a lot of people to stop playing because of it..

 

I appreciate your contribution, but this is a bad idea.

 

I just looked at some JC gameplay and it doesn't have the kind of aiming I am suggesting. The reticle always stays at the center screen center, thats not what I'm suggesting please read it again.

 

They said that they're currently working on a Tera style reticle system, but I don't think it will be an entirely free fps mouse aiming, because that would be too twitchy.

 

It's not about 'gimping' anyone, instead it would force you to think more strategically and in advance. You would simply have to be more careful in which direction you're facing. I don't see what's 'fundamentaly flawed' with this approach, you just don't like it and that's ok.

 

The devs will decide how they want their game to be played and what I suggested is a decent system imo, because its a compromise between not having mouse aiming at all and a full fledged fps aiming, and is also pretty well adjustable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just looked at some JC gameplay and it doesn't have the kind of aiming I am suggesting. The reticle always stays at the center screen center, thats not what I'm suggesting please read it again.

 

They said that they're currently working on a Tera style reticle system, but I don't think it will be an entirely free fps mouse aiming, because that would be too twitchy.

 

It's not about 'gimping' anyone, instead it would force you to think more strategically and in advance. You would simply have to be more careful in which direction you're facing. I don't see what's 'fundamentaly flawed' with this approach, you just don't like it and that's ok.

 

The devs will decide how they want their game to be played and what I suggested is a decent system imo, because its a compromise between not having mouse aiming at all and a full fledged fps aiming, and is also pretty well adjustable.

 

what game had the system you suggested? did you actually enjoy it and think it's THE best thing that can be done?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not played much for action combat games.  Please bear with my ignorance and help me work though some of my questions, comments and concerns.  I tried Tera and had a blast with PvE.  PvP in tera was difficult for me.  I live in far northern Maine.  My ping is normally between 150 and 225 to games.  I live in the woods and the internet truly sucks here.  ok here my questions/comments.

 

Is there any system out there that will adjust for lag?  I had these thoughts.  I want active dodging/blocking.  When I toss a spell at someone, I want it to hit them if when I cast the spell my reticle had them locked in.  The only way I do not want it to hit them is if they actively (press a button) block or dodge. 

 

Running in twitching in and out of los should not stop my stuff from hitting.  I am not talking tab target here either.  In tera when you have your reticle on target it turns red until they are no longer in your target area.  I am calling this reticle lock for lack of a better term.  When I have this reticle lock, they should have to move substantially out of my target area for me to lose it.  I think they are considering Invun frames for this game.  So is their goal to have something similar to what I suggest? 

 

Is there any game out right now that does it similar to the way I suggest?  I know tera is close, but the game is so slow anyone can move out of incoming damage before it reaches them.  The projectiles seem like slow motion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not played much for action combat games.  Please bear with my ignorance and help me work though some of my questions, comments and concerns.  I tried Tera and had a blast with PvE.  PvP in tera was difficult for me.  I live in far northern Maine.  My ping is normally between 150 and 225 to games.  I live in the woods and the internet truly sucks here.  ok here my questions/comments.

 

Is there any system out there that will adjust for lag?  I had these thoughts.  I want active dodging/blocking.  When I toss a spell at someone, I want it to hit them if when I cast the spell my reticle had them locked in.  The only way I do not want it to hit them is if they actively (press a button) block or dodge. 

 

Running in twitching in and out of los should not stop my stuff from hitting.  I am not talking tab target here either.  In tera when you have your reticle on target it turns red until they are no longer in your target area.  I am calling this reticle lock for lack of a better term.  When I have this reticle lock, they should have to move substantially out of my target area for me to lose it.  I think they are considering Invun frames for this game.  So is their goal to have something similar to what I suggest? 

 

Is there any game out right now that does it similar to the way I suggest?  I know tera is close, but the game is so slow anyone can move out of incoming damage before it reaches them.  The projectiles seem like slow motion.

 

ok, maybe I can help out...

 

so as you know your ping is truly awful ;)

I personally don't even join FPS servers where my ping is >40.

 

games, to determine whether you've been hit, usually use either client side hit detection or server side.

a lot of games use client side, because it takes away an enormous of amount of data that the server doesn't need to handle.

This often results in the "hit around the corner" phenomenon. On your screen you've dodged behind a corner, but on the other players screen, he can still see your leg, which he shot. His client tells the server that he hit you and registers the damage. You die behind cover. Now you can see how big the difference there can be between players with a sub 30 ping and your 200 ping.

Players have been lamenting about this for many many years and a game who handles this perfectly still needs to be released.

 

Some games try to give you a "latency control" slider in the options and try to minimize this effect as best as they can. If they truly make it equal for everybody then the game feels really really sluggish and will be no fun for anybody, no matter the ping.

 

There will ALWAYS be instances, where you think you clearly evaded something, but you still take damage.

Same goes for your projectiles. They will NEVER exactly be at the same position for you and the one your aiming at.

You shoot it on your screen, the server tells the other player you shot it, and there you already have the delay  and thus different positions of the projectile.

I kinda oversimplified this here, but I think you should get the idea.

 

 

 

Now to explain what invul-frames are:

Let's say an animation is 50 frames long. Like someone lifts the sword and swings it downwards. the 50 frames contain all that motion. For your sword to hit, your animation needs to collide with an enemy hitbox somewhere between frame 35 and 50.

Now, some animations, most likely dodges, will have a similar effect, but, for example, a backflip will have iframes during frame 30 and 50. Which means, that during that time, every projectile or sword or whatever, that might collide with him will not cause any damage.

Sometimes these iframes dont make sense and certain attack animations have them as well.

I hope you have the right idea now ;)

 

 

Concerning a game: check out the souls series. You'll quickly understand the differences in ping and especially iframes. Rolling/backstepping in these games have iframes which are (ab)used in PvP :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TBH modern fps games (counter strike go) use an algorythm to predict where the bullet is going to hit (and actually there's a random variable in it, meaning the same shot could end up in slightly different places).. Thus any ping below ~80 is fine, and I suspect action games require even less (<100).

Edited by fenrisddevil

y9tj8G5.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I prefer faster combat as it requires more skill. 

 

Because chess requires no skill at all.

 

Faster and slower combat require different kinds of skill. Winning a fast combat is about reflexes, preplanning, and practiced keysequences. Winning a slow combat is about reacting intelligently to your opponent's moves and managing resource pools more effectively.

 

If I wanted to play a shooter, I know where to find them. I hope CF tends towards the slower side.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...