Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

(Crafting Discussion) Crafting Process


M0rdred
 Share

Recommended Posts

Breaking the discussions down a little as suggested in this thread; http://community.cro...ferent-systems/ If you need to quote a section from one of the other related threads, please do but keep the quotes short and to the point!

 

Recipes
 
Refining Resources
 
Inventory Management
 
Crafting Mini Game
Edited by M0rdred
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
 

Recipes

Something of a mix of Eve and SWG I think. Break the recipe requirements down into Wood, Metal, Cloth, Organic,  Stone, Magical, Essence. A sword would therefore require 30 Metal and either 10 Wood, 10 Metal or 10 Magical. The different resources within each category would determine the statistics of that item. Use Iron and your blade would be quite tough and quite sharp, Substitute Obsidian instead and its really sharp but very fragile (high damage, low durability).
 
Each material would then need a list of common attributes, perhaps with 1 or 2 unique attributes for each class, and each attribute contributes to the item's finished statistics.
Toughness - Max durability
Warmth - How much heat it keeps
Solidity - How flexible it is (for mage armour you'd want low solidity, for a stone wall you'd want high). 
Hardness - Damage Bonus (Metals)
Elasticity - Damage Bonus (Wood)
etc.
 
Magical and Essence (Thralls) allow a little more mutation of an item, so they could confer things like life steal, dodge bonus, health regen, etc. Magical would be ingredients found on corpses, or themselves are crafted, for example Rune Stones. 
 
Inventory Management
I've moved Inventory Management to below Recipes as it rather depends on how crafting itself worked.
 
For the system outlined above, a Player could sort their inventory in "Advanced" or "Basic". Basic mode lumps all items of a classification together, while Advanced expands it out. I guess this would mean that materials would need to have a mutable inventory size... the more carried of a classification the more space it takes up. It would be far easier to do this by weight rather than squares on a grid. 
 
I know part of this question touches on how to track items when harvesting and the like;
We could use a similar classification for raw materials if you really wanted to mix it up. Some standard classes would appear, Logs, Ore, Ingredients, etc. You could also add some cross-class types, like Rubble... when refined this produces either types of stone or types of metal. Shrub would be bits of wood or bits of food, etc. 
 
Refining Resources
Refining into the materials actually used in crafting depend on a number of ratios (which themselves would be dependent on refining skill.. you be different types of refine skill like Metallurgy for metals, Stone Carving for stone, Food Preparation for organics, etc. 
 
For example;
Miner harvests Copper Ore, and gathers 500. This is split into 50 stacks of 10 (higher skills / disciplines could increase stack size). 
Copper ore is brought to the metallurgist who refines it. At a ratio of 10:1, the then get 50 Copper Ingots. 
 
In another post I talked about having low and high grade ingots... but I'm not sure if that is needed. I'd rather see alloys instead, where two different metals are mixed to create a third type. Likewise for cloth weaves or wooden veneers. 
 
Crafting Mini Game
The game for crafters is in finding the materials they need, then combining those materials to create items with the attributes they need. They can also be managers, working to create the logistical supply routes which are the very foundation for economics in Crowfall. Please no connect 4 or other time wasters! Also when actually crafting an item, please do away with the "progress bar" they are not necessary and promote one of the biggest grinds for crafters. 
 
The only exception to this no-progress bar is in time-critical activities, for example repairs or construction... but even this is better achieved through other systems - see below section "Construction and Repairs"!
 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Inventory Management - This ties into the ideas above, being able to refine your resources in some way will allow crafters to lose resources in order to upgrade quality and save space. Also, I believe there should be useful stack-able items that act as a resource sink for campaigns, such as ammunition or field repair kits.

 

Recipes - Right now, some kind of standard recipe system is fine with me. One interesting idea from SWTOR was the ability to upgrade your recipes through "reverse engineering" them. I found this system to be very gratifying. I haven't put much thought into how that could translate into Crowfall yet but, systems like this add complexity over the basic "Chest plate with + 5 armor" Then again, I'm happy with simple recipes as well. Ultima Online did it well and that was one of my favorite crafting games. 

 

Refining Resources - I covered this above. The only thing I can add is that I'd like to be able to increase my efficiency while refining through skills or items.

 

Crafting Mini Game - Mini games in general make me want to vomit. Anything that requires me to concentrate for extended periods of time that can't be eventually automated is a buzz kill for me. Fishing may be the only exception to this but, even fishing I prefer to only have to cast my lure...I don't want to have to watch the bauble and click on it. I do however like the idea of having some kind of further crafting experimentation based on your skills and a little luck...something that only requires me to move a sliding bar and click a button...not something that is time sensitive. 

 
Edited by M0rdred
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Inventory Management

  • When harvesting I'd like nice simple stacks of common, uncommon, rare (Rough oak log, Sturdy oak log, Strong oak log)
  • When I refine I'd like to see many different quality variation (fine, knotted, shinny, splendid, heartwood, sapwood, burl, gum streaks, mineral streaks, glassworm - oak board)
  • For the step when I'm out in the wild I don't want to be fixing inventory and the person that tries to gank me doesn't want to do it either
  • More than happy to create neat piles when I'm back at the house

 

Refining Resources

  • Gathers do the initial refining step to determine the quality and quantity of raw materials brought back from the field
  • Crafters combine different materials attempting to exploit the variation in quality to make superior products

 

Crafting Mini Game

  • I enjoyed the crafting mini game in FFXIV but don't think its necessary
  •  
Edited by M0rdred
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Inventory management.

As your faction prospers ,there might be ways to upgrade materials
Bet you can always use your pack pig to send things over(with a chance of your goods being intercepted)
I also like the idea that when you throw something out of your inventory ,you actually throw it on the ground.
 
Recipes
I've never been a collector..
Never had strong opinions on this.I do like the idea that we can learn like 20%(or the easy ones) by practice.
Only the very difficult things would require you to find recipes in order to learn.
It is also important that this makes sense where you find a recipe...like a firy hilt recipe in a bunny..ok...
 
Hauling/refining resources are part of the process,and i don't have much to comment on it now.
 
Crafting mini games
Only if the quality of your item is determined by how well you make it.Like if you are interrupted while slamming a heated blade,
the quality of the final product will be less.This would encourage players to protect crafters.
When minigames are mixtables and loading screens,no thanks.
 

 

Inventory Management

 

I've never been a fan of systems with mass inventory limitations.  All it encourages if for me to sit staring at 200 tiny boxes (inventory slots in bags/etc) and re-arrange them so that i could free up those 3 more spots to pick up the 3 extra pieces of wood.   This just isn't fun.     Also terrible is the management of 600 qualities of same resources.  While it's awesome to have all those different quality resources, there has to be a better way of managing it.  It either needs to be super simple or we need in-game spreadsheet functionality (which tends to be needed for a lot of things in games with complex crafting).

 

Recipes

 

I think many games have done recipes well.  What separates great games is the ability to make something unique - which tends to happen due not so much to recipes, but due to components - like in SWG and in Firefall (original system).   Recipes should be enabling rather than restrictive - meaning they should determine the base of the item, while crafting gameplay skill and resources determine the final item.

 

Refining Resources

 

I've always through this was a completely unnecessary step that does nothing but wastes time.  I also think it's a waste of development resources - rather than building a whole additional "refining system" that is robust, interesting and interactive, better to just skip it and focus on having more solid Resource Obtainment (resource spawning, harvesting) and Creation (Recipes, Crafting Mini Game) systems.  If the latter two systems are good enough, there is no need for the refining thing - it adds nothing.

 

Crafting Mini Game

 

Must we really call it a "mini game"?  We don't call MMO combat "that fighting mini-game".   But i get what you mean and we do need to call it SOMETHING.   Out of the 30+ MMOs i've played, not a single one has done this well.  The "experimentation" feature of EQ2 crafting went a bit into this direction, where you actually had to pay close attention and "fight" with the crafting station in order to create a better item at a great risk, but it was neither enough (player skill) or payoff.    I think this has amazing potential.  The best thing I've seen in this regard is actually not a crafting system, but the Diplomacy system in Vanguard - a whole separate AND SKILL-INVOLVED activity.   This is what crafting should strive to be.

 

What makes a "good fighter" in an MMO? Is it the skills he's selected? Is it the gear he's put on? All those things are important - but they're also easily replicated by other players.  What truly makes a "good fighter" is the player skill aspect - what actions the person performs (a.k.a. how well they push buttons) DURING COMBAT.    I really don't see why it should be any different for crafting.  Yes, skill selection, recipe selection, material selection - all those things are good - but easily repilcated.  A "good crafter" should differentiate him/herself by being good at doing stuff (a.k.a. pushing buttons) during the crafting process (and by the crafting process i mean the "mini game" or the act of creating the item).

 

I absolutely hate the idea that as long as you have ingredients XYZ and Sewing skill of 157, that you just click "combine" and create the exactly same thing as every other crafter that has ingredients XYZ and Sewing 157 - that your skill as a player is completely irrelevant.   Why bother investing all that time into all these sub-systems, just to make the same skill-less junk?  Might as well just have it all automated (which is the route many games have gone - like SWTOR where you just assign your minions to craft while you're offline)

 

You say you want people to make a name for themselves.  But if their actual skills as a player don't matter, they'll never any different.  they'll just be people that "have the recipe" or people that "took that skill" or people "that own the rare harvester".  

 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Copying over my last post from the parent thread:

 

First, I want a crafting system deep enough and rich enough that doesn't need "crafting combat" to be interesting and fun.  Exploration of the recipes and results of new combinations and the satisfaction of finding that unexpected combination that no one else has thought to try...
 
Second, Crowfall is being designed as a primarily PvP game, where combat with the mobs is a just secondary nuisance, albeit that can't be completely ignored.  Hopefully it ends up being deep enough that it turns into a live-action chess match rather than simply being a twitch-fest, predictable numbers game, or a glorified rock-paper-scissors.  A crafting mini-game, by contrast, is PvE.  I don't think it fits the vision here.
 
Third, just because something can be turned into a mini-game doesn't mean it should be.  You could totally make character creation into a series of mini-games, where your performance in them determines every aspect of your character.  Maybe that would be a good fit for some other game, but not for a game intending to be a competitive PvP combat game.
 
All of that being said, I'll probably still roll at least one character with a crafting emphasis in mind even if they do implement a mini-game.
 
And, not all crafting mini-games are equally horrible.  The smithing system in the Minecraft TerraFirmaCraft mod, for example, is a mini-game that, IMO, does a good job of capturing what I imagine real smithing would be like on a logical level.  Leatherworking in TerraFirmaCraft, on the other hand, is simply a matter of creating the right pattern in a grid of squares and clicking "done".  That's fairly similar to at least part of what real leatherworking is (cutting out patterns using templates), so I'm OK with that too.
 
But at that point you're spending design inspiration and development time creating unique and meaningful mini-games for each and every crafting discipline (imagine the possibilities for a gem-cutting mini-game). That's resources that I would rather see spent elsewhere.

soli deo gloria

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...