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TullyAckland

03/20/15 - Eternal Kingdoms!

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We're arguing for EK to be the meaninful part of the game it has the potential to be. It is the only perminant part of the game besides your character, campaigns are fought in order to bring back resources. For what are we working our asses off in campaigns tho? To build a shiny sand castle and state at it? To stroll through the forest without a care in the world? Without risk, reward is boring.

But nonstop, relentless, never rest, never pause risk is only enjoyable for some people. It's enjoyable for you - but the devs don't think it will work in the game. I am sure they see the fun in it but they chose to include an optional downtime area.

 

An optional downtime area that lets you flip a switch and turn in into a risk area too. You can have your nonstop, relentless, always risking game.  You just can't insist that everyone in the game play that way too.


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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I disagree, but it is just my personal opinion, clearly yours is different.  While I enjoy all of the facets of most mmos, be it crafting, economic wars, actual physical combat, gathering, etc, what has been lost in in recent mmos is the social aspect.

 

The social aspect of mmos is what I miss the most from earlier games before you didnt even have to talk to anyone level a character.

 

Maybe it's my age, but I don't need to beat someone down to have fun.

 

Except, there's not even social meaning in the EK. As far as I can see, there's no reason to just try and be friends with everyone and maximize the benefits you get from multiple Kingdoms.

 

Apart of PvP is always a social aspect. If you just want to see around and talk to people, you can do that in a chat room.


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Im still curious that if we have this are we able to visit it during campaigns or are we stuck in them.

You're stuck in the campaigns.  You visit the EK between campaigns. At least that is my understanding of it.

 

You can however have one alt on the EK and another in a campaign. 


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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But nonstop, relentless, never rest, never pause risk is only enjoyable for some people. It's enjoyable for you - but the devs don't think it will work in the game. I am sure they see the fun in it but they chose to include an optional downtime area.

 

An optional downtime area that lets you flip a switch and turn in into a risk area too. You can have your nonstop, relentless, always risking game.  You just can't insist that everyone in the game play that way too.

 

Except, few are asking for nonstop risk in the EK.

 

But if you have a huge trading hub that is making you strong going into campaigns, I should have some recourse to try and disrupt that beyond trying to match it in my own EK.

Edited by Teekey

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Except, no one has asked for nonstop risk in the EK.

 

But if you have a huge trading hub that is making you strong going into campaigns, I should have some recourse to try and disrupt that beyond trying to match it in my own EK.

 

If the EKs make u strong going into campaigns, and we can buy a better EK, does that mean....(thinks hard on if he should day it or not)...pay2w?  :ph34r:

Edited by Tierless

I role play a wordsmith.

 

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I'm with CopperStall, 99% of my game will be played in campaigns. If I'm collecting resources for months at a time by slaughtering my opponents, why do I care if a carebear village is being created? Also, it seems like a significant portion of the gaming population would prefer EKs with active PvP. Therefore, I expect at least a few large EKs that can be raided (or defended).

 

Some suggestions though...

1. Why not have a challenge system where a group can challenge an EK to a full scale seige in a betting system? Each side puts up a fair amount of relics/resources/artifacts/items plus the destruction costs? The changed EK can decide the time and basic terms of the siege.

 

2. Why not give some sort of bonus to EKs (or the owners) for keeping open PvP on for X amount of time of for defending against X many sieges?

 

Honestly I like that some people can choose to have non-PvP EKs because honestly they have to either have a ton of people supporting them or they won't be spending a lot of time there. I don't think it's an issue. However I would like to see ways that PvP can be brought into the EKs and players be given benefits/advantages for using the EKs as PvP zones.

 

They already mentioned item 1; I don't remember where but they described it as a 2-way open PvP between 2 kingdoms where the Monarchs agree on the rule & win/end condition as well as putting prizes into a game-engine escrow to be given to the winner.  

Item 2 is likely to be covered in item 1 by other players.

 

I forsee guilds arranging these fights in the EKs when there are no Campaigns due to end soon as a way of spicing up things for their Alts.

 

I can see some particularly adventurous Monarch declaring their EK open PvP just when a Campaign is about to end to give them a leg up in drawing in the victorious PvPers.

 

Many amusements could result.

CopperStall

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If the EKs make u strong going into campaigns, and we can buy a better EK, does that mean....(thinks hard on if he should day it or not)...pay2w?

 

Well, they'll say it's not P2W because they have the same restrictions as you. There's no doubt that an entire army going into a campaign with full gear will be at an advantage to those who don't, though.

 

 

You still have to gather to resources for items in the campaigns, however.

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But nonstop, relentless, never rest, never pause risk is only enjoyable for some people. It's enjoyable for you - but the devs don't think it will work in the game. I am sure they see the fun in it but they chose to include an optional downtime area.

 

An optional downtime area that lets you flip a switch and turn in into a risk area too. You can have your nonstop, relentless, always risking game.  You just can't insist that everyone in the game play that way too.

To make money.   I am sure that is the main reason.   


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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Except, few are asking for nonstop risk in the EK.

 

But if you have a huge trading hub that is making you strong going into campaigns, I should have some recourse to try and disrupt that beyond trying to match it in my own EK.

 

 

From what I read there is a disruption mechanic.... win more campaigns then those who are currently maximizing their trading hub.  Trading between campaigns will be to the advantage of those who won the previous campaign but once the next campaign starts import rules throttle the trading hubs advantage (at least how I interpret it .. I could be wrong). Best players hopefully win (hey I said hopefully it will be a lot of testing :) )  The impact to be seen in the Eks will be from the export rule set .. the export advantage is to the winners.  Winner get more options to expand their trading hubs, possibly more relics and artifacts to adjust the start of the next campaign. 

Disruption can be more broad than having all EKs set to PvP rules.


Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

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You're stuck in the campaigns.  You visit the EK between campaigns. At least that is my understanding of it.

 

You can however have one alt on the EK and another in a campaign. 

 

I think the default is as you describe but that they are considering options to 'visit' the EKs while on Campaign. They are specifically trying to avoid messing with the import/export rules so the strongest candidate seems to be that a pseudo-shade of your Campaign PC shows up in the EKs where they can participate in events etc but no gear transfers either way.

Still veeeeery hypothetical at this point, though

CopperStall

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Except, few are asking for nonstop risk in the EK.

 

But if you have a huge trading hub that is making you strong going into campaigns, I should have some recourse to try and disrupt that beyond trying to match it in my own EK.

Annnnd your recourse to try and disrupt that via PvP would make having the trading hub a nonstop PvP risk.   If you want more folks to play the nonstop risk game in the EK then you'll need to rustle them up and create that PvP monster chain of EK's.

 

If you want to disrupt a huge trading hub without PvP  then mess with its supply lines on the campaign worlds.  Co-opt the vendors, put a mole in the management company, buy out one of the products completely and then resell them yourself back on your EK at inflated prices and make a killing. Rent a stall from them and sell horrible quality products while loudly announcing the backing of the hub management.  Lure away their main crafters. Bring a few buddies and play chase on horses through the main market for hours.  Start a boycott.

 

Outthink them.  Ruin their rep.  Steal their best people.  Plant your own people in their upper circles. Squeeze their incoming resources dry.

 

I will say though I don't understand why I have to compete on the campaign worlds and play by PvP rules and win in that world but you're not willing to compete on the EK worlds with crafters - and you think it's unfair that you should have to do the work to build up a trading hub fair and square on your own.

Edited by Oridi

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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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I will say though I don't understand why I have to compete on the campaign worlds and play by PvP rules and win in that world but you're not willing to compete on the EK worlds with crafters - and you think it's unfair that you should have to do the work to build up a trading hub fair and square on your own.

 

They're not exclusive mechanics though. Neither should exist in a vacuum without the other. I should have to create a trading hub, but I should also have the option of disrupting yours.

 

You listed a bunch of 'options', but that's fixed as easily as a Monarch banning you from their kingdom.

 

I just dislike a safe lobby system. I don't see a point in it, and I think it detracts from the game. We'll have just have to agree to disagree, however.

Edited by Teekey

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Did you just prove my point?

 

I've never disagreed that crafting should be important.

 

I disagree that crafting should be able to happen without risk...just like I think you shouldn't be able to PvP to get gear without having to craft.

Edited by Teekey

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 I should have to create a trading hub, but I should also have the option of disrupting yours.

 

Just because you can't invade and pillage someone's crafting shop in the EK, doesn't mean you can't disrupt his.  There is more to this game than brute force combat.  The Devs themselves have said as much.  Be more like Little Finger and less like Stannis.

 

There is more than one way to skin a cat as they say.

Edited by knyght

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You're stuck in the campaigns.  You visit the EK between campaigns. At least that is my understanding of it.

 

You can however have one alt on the EK and another in a campaign. 

 

Actually I don't think this is the case. I seem to remember one of the dev's saying you could travel to your EK, but that you'd appear there with the last gear you had on while at the EK - ie you cannot bring stuff back and forth with you while on campaign. This is so that you could still administer your EK while on month-long outings.

 

I tried to find the source of that, but failed, sorry :(

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But nonstop, relentless, never rest, never pause risk is only enjoyable for some people. It's enjoyable for you - but the devs don't think it will work in the game. I am sure they see the fun in it but they chose to include an optional downtime area.

 

An optional downtime area that lets you flip a switch and turn in into a risk area too. You can have your nonstop, relentless, always risking game. You just can't insist that everyone in the game play that way too.

I can insist whatever I want, whether or not people listen to me is another story! the way I see it, this EK info basically made me not care about winning a campaign. Guess I'll be griefing gatherers and crafters instead of working on win conditions. No point in trying to win, when all you get is artifacts that do next to nothing and resources to use in a boring, pointless everyone is a monarch EK. Edited by dreaden

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The EK is still only going to matter to people not playing in the campaigns that I care about. They might experiment with an import gear campaign in dregs/gvg, but I don't see that being as popular as everyone dropping in with nothing.

 

The only instance of the EK meaning anything more than just a playground is the artifacts system stretch goal. We've got a few days left but it's still up in the air if we're going to get that goal. But let us operate on the assumption that the goal is met and the artifacts are implemented. What real impact will it have on the campaigns?

 

On the example of the 5% faster lumber collection, if it takes 30s to chop down a tree that reduces it to 28.5s to chop it down. If we look at the skill training increase by 1% it's an even more diminishing return. If it takes 30 days to train a skill to lvl 100, then it means that at 1% increase you max by about 29 days and *roughly* 20 hours.

 

So I've really got to wonder how artifacts matter as well. Any min/maxer I know is not going to really care about such small bonuses since they can't stack with each other. I can only take one woodcutting bonus into the world, ACE stated as much. So the EK still really doesn't have a purpose for those of us only interested in the PvP. (Granted if they make artifacts that affect pvp, this changes but I don't find that likely)

 

However, I am completely fine with the EK existing as carebear land. It doesn't change how the campaign will be played for me. If the EK gets ACE some more money to keep the servers up and more expansions rolling then that's great.

 

Would I like the EK to have some larger strategic significance in some way, sure but I don't see that happening currently. Who knows maybe they will implement something like this eventually, but that isn't what ACE is focusing on using the EK's for at this time.

Edited by RemlapVII

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Im still curious that if we have this are we able to visit it during campaigns or are we stuck in them.

 

You can go to EK during campaigns, but you can't bring any item with you. This was confirmed by Todd (or Thomas?) a couple of days ago.

 

Btw, for those interested, this is a comment by Artcraft on Kickstarter: ".. there will specific parcels with PvE spawns, I hope that helps."

Edited by fenrisddevil

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