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TullyAckland

03/20/15 - Eternal Kingdoms!

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They do not. Period. There are no independent NPC traders. All NPC traders are Thralls in service to a specific PC. All trading is ultimately between PCs even though NPCs may do the actual trading. 

Eternal Kingdoms are resources sinks.

Campaign worlds are resource faucets.

 

This is why they have a section in the Economy FAQ (#21, I think) about how you can scrap crafted items for partial components if no-one wants to buy them.

http://crowfall.com/#/faq/54ca4682bffce6644cb3380a

 

CopperFall

I understand the resource part, but am asking about money.

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So you have to go for campaigns, have to wait for them to end (no resources carried out until the end), can't guarantee if you get enough money out of them (might loose the campaign, have to share loot?) and if you don't do campaigns your personal EK is useless as you can't use parcels without paying upkeep?

Huh??

:blink:

 

This is why all except the hardest Campaign Worlds (Dregs Ring) have a default percentage of loot even for the losers.

CopperStall

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I understand the resource part, but am asking about money.

There is no money system in the game that is offered by CF itself.  The economy will be built by the players themselves.

 

There are a number of threads about this (do a search on currency) and it's a pretty exciting topic.


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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I understand the resource part, but am asking about money.

 

Money is just another resource in this game. Note that it sounds like most upkeep costs will be in material resource form and not coinage (ie my stone smith shop might require 1 unit stone, 3 units wood, and 1 unit coal upkeep per month). Thralls are bound ghosts so they don't take paychecks. Their bindings likely require magical reagents maintain, though.

 

CopperStall

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Wait, what does "at the beginning and end of a campaign" mean? You have to be there at the very initial hour a campaign starts or you can't join it? At all?

And I can't leave a campaign if it turns out boring or impossible to win? I'm stuck or I twink? How about people campaign-hopping otherwise, not fighting to the end but simply leaving if outdone?

Yeah.

 

The game has some things that seem unfun and you really do have to read all the dev announcements and go through the faq's to understand the check and balance system that they've got in place.

 

I think there may be a grace period at the start of a campaign but I'm guessing there more than anything.  But they don't want folks leaving if they can't win otherwise the winning side loses the joy of winning.  Would you want to be winning a campaign and suddenly find out a week before it ends that there's no one left to fight cause they've all run away?  Once you start a campaign you're in it - though I have to mention that folks are talking about having severe penalties if you bolt a campaign rather than not being able to leave at all.

 

Supposition.  It's all supposition at this point.

 

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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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Wait, what does "at the beginning and end of a campaign" mean? You have to be there at the very initial hour a campaign starts or you can't join it? At all?

And I can't leave a campaign if it turns out boring or impossible to win? I'm stuck or I twink? How about people campaign-hopping otherwise, not fighting to the end but simply leaving if outdone?

 

They haven't covered this in great detail yet but they have referred to "bending your knee" as a way to give up on a campaign. They haven't locked down the detailed mechanics yet. I strongly suspect that this is a topic that they will play with during the first few Campaigns to find a decent balance between benefit from committing vs boredom if you lose early.

 

Also note that everyone has 3 characters to play with so that helps blunt the effect.

CopperStall

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I am seeing a new very sought after profession emerging:  Sugar Crowdaddy

 

For those that want to live in their EK eating their grapes and crafting they are gonna be needing one of those.

 

And, don't think that it won't happen.  it will.


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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They haven't covered this in great detail yet but they have referred to "bending your knee" as a way to give up on a campaign. They haven't locked down the detailed mechanics yet. I strongly suspect that this is a topic that they will play with during the first few Campaigns to find a decent balance between benefit from committing vs boredom if you lose early.

 

Also note that everyone has 3 characters to play with so that helps blunt the effect.

CopperStall

That one would be more or less the guild vs guild one. The general idea is you admit defeat and 'bend the knee' or simply swallow your pride and announce that you lost, and the other guy won. You get 50% resource export instead of say 25% whilest they would still get their normal full on resource export.

I am seeing a new very sought after profession emerging:  Sugar Crowdaddy

 

For those that want to live in their EK eating their grapes and crafting they are gonna be needing one of those.

 

And, don't think that it won't happen.  it will.

I've seen it emerge in quite a few games admist craft only players. Why would this be any different?

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The simple solution is that you only build up your own land, but when you become a guild member it becomes a part of the whole (gets Tetris'd in)

 

So it benefits the guild to have you (you bring new buildings that benefit everyone, you pay taxes, etc), but you're still working towards building up your own land. If the guild breaks up, you still maintain all your own land and buildings.

The other solution is to just let players interact with each other... Stop trying so hard to take care of the players and holding their hands... Getting screwed over is going to happen, getting scammed and cheated will happen, using resources to slap bandages over those sore spots is a waste of resources. Yeah it sucks, but ultimately that's not a design problem, that's a "People Problem" What i mean by that is, if the game specifically encouraged one type of behavior, then sure, dedicate some resources to fix that, but the game will literally run in the free market/Feudal system that ACTUALLY happened, it goes into the politics aspect of the game.

 

That and, realistically, when you lose land IRL, you are just poorly made socks out of luck. The new owners certainly do not afford the expense of having all the buildings on your land returned to you via mail. Similarly, when you lose terrain or land in an RTS, the new owner CERTAINLY doesn't give you a refund. Just a part of the game, and social interaction.

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I am seeing a new very sought after profession emerging:  Sugar Crowdaddy

 

For those that want to live in their EK eating their grapes and crafting they are gonna be needing one of those.

 

And, don't think that it won't happen.  it will.

 

I'm looking to be a 'Safari Guide' for crafters wanting to set up shop on a Dying World. I provide security & scouting; they provide harvesting & crafting. Upon returning to the EKs I take an appropriate cut of their loot for a Silence Partner and fade into the background.

CopperStall

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It seems to be just a giant fluffy carebear fun land from this description. For a game that is all about risk/reward, why waste so much time and resources on a feature that has neither? It was stated this game isn't for everyone, so why are the EK being developed and marketed to non pvp types?

 

Edit: player controlled PvP rules is also a waste of time/resources as the only reason to go to another persons EK will be to shop. No one will shop in a PvP enabled EK if it is allow in some and not others. People when given the choice will want to shop in peace, thus removing any risk in the process and only reward(boring!). Take away the option and enable PvP(and inventory looting)in all eternal kingdoms to remedy this.

´Maybe using a Ek to train army forces?

Hac bouts with guilds outside of the campaigns?

Player hosted events?

Champonships?

Or simply a centaur horse race .. which is deathly too.

 

I think there will be many people making interesting things.

About these. Most likely they will be private+streamed around.

 

I wouldn't go into a pvp enabled loot drop Ek ... that is public. Why should i?

 

--

 

And it ins't as much as carebear.

There's nothing to do if you aren't making the things to do yourself.

At least nothing to gain, as far a sinfo goes.

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IMO this looks good. My main comment is that I don't like that my vassals can change the terrain. That should be the monarch's prerogative.

 

I'm also not worried about this from a Min/Max standpoint. ACE already knows their primary control is import rules and that those have to be low. As long as you can go to someone else's EK for all your between campaign shopping and vassalage lets you use the EK's Relics then its fine. Thats also the impression I'm getting.

 

For the people who want EKs to matter to the campaigns, they really can't without destroying the no Uncle Bob vision. If you only PvP so you can get phatter lewt to PvP harder with, well there is an overused phrase about this game and you.

 

I hope you're right. Even so, how many of these types of players do you anticipate? Enough to sustain multiple campaigns, or barely enough for one? I am not disagreeing with you or trying to be rude, I am honestly curious how much interest there is going to be for the "terminator" style campaigns, especially now that we know how important and ambitious the EKs are going to be.

 

If there is barely enough interest for one Terminator campaign then the unstated part of 'We aren't making a game for everyone' comes into play. No, the game isn't for everyone, yes it is for a commercially viable number of players. If not many people want Terminator then those people have no real reason to expect the game design to cater to them all that well.

 

 

There's nothing wrong with it. But MMOs are always about achieving something, getting something someone else doesn't, etc. You want to be the Have vs the Have Not.

 

To be honest, rather than 1% to Archery in a Relic, I'd rather have some cool visual armor upgrades, or a battle standard I could plant in my enemy's corpse.

 

Beating people is fun. But being able to rub it in their face with a cool looking item is even better!  :D

 

I agree. Small generic numeric bonuses are pretty boring. Being allowed to have a guild standard that is awesome and recognisable would be much cooler. It combines the enemy being able to recognise who they're fighting, which is important for social reasons, with them wetting themselves because they're up against a guild that wins enough to earn a really sweet standard.

 

Definitely but things are quickly becoming pretty dependent on this one import ruleset catch.

 

True, but the entire game design is predicated on campaigns ending, import rules and export rules. Those are the primary things that ACE will need to get right to have this game work like their vision rather than just being another Uncle Bob rules all PvP MMO.


David Sirlin's Balancing Multiplayer Games should be mandatory reading for all gamers.

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For the people who want EKs to matter to the campaigns, they really can't without destroying the no Uncle Bob vision. If you only PvP so you can get phatter lewt to PvP harder with, well there is an overused phrase about this game and you.

 

If there is barely enough interest for one Terminator campaign then the unstated part of 'We aren't making a game for everyone' comes into play. No, the game isn't for everyone, yes it is for a commercially viable number of players. If not many people want Terminator then those people have no real reason to expect the game design to cater to them all that well.

 

True, but the entire game design is predicated on campaigns ending, import rules and export rules. Those are the primary things that ACE will need to get right to have this game work like their vision rather than just being another Uncle Bob rules all PvP MMO.

 

Sorry to quote out of context, but my reply is related to these points specifically. My question is if the commercially viable player base continues to push for certain things, how much with the devs push back in order to exert their own influence and prevent the tidal waves from capsizing their original vision? I don't want certain exceptions made just because they are commercially popular, that's all.

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I am seeing a new very sought after profession emerging:  Sugar Crowdaddy

 

For those that want to live in their EK eating their grapes and crafting they are gonna be needing one of those.

 

And, don't think that it won't happen.  it will.

Will you be my Sugar Crowmomma?


☆ We are in a positive posting drought, so just post. Be the change you want the forums to be. Go wild. Just follow your positive posting star. ☆
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Will you be my Sugar Crowmomma?

Sure, why not?  Since I am playing a Fae Assassin we won't have to worry about it being "long term"  :)  


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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Sorry to quote out of context, but my reply is related to these points specifically. My question is if the commercially viable player base continues to push for certain things, how much with the devs push back in order to exert their own influence and prevent the tidal waves from capsizing their original vision? I don't want certain exceptions made just because they are commercially popular, that's all.

 

Thats a matter of strong vision and fortitude from the devs. They have a vision, it isn't 100% ultra hardcore PvP all day erry day. But it is very PvP centric and they do seem to have a good understanding of what balance is and what a PvP game needs. And apparently at least 13k people like that enough to stump up cash two years in advance. So I think they can stay out the course.

 

But telling people who want PvE this isn't the game for them is no different to telling certain PvP sub-groups it isn't the game for them. They've already done both and I'm happy to trust them to continue.

 

Their vision seems strong enough that they'll know the difference between popular ideas that do and don't fit.

 

There seem to be enough people who will play what they seem to want to make that they will be profitable.

 

 

 

And really thats all you can get with Kickstarter, even ACE has been clear that this is a risk. Maybe I'm wrong and my pledge is wasted. But I think it won't be so I'm still a backer.


David Sirlin's Balancing Multiplayer Games should be mandatory reading for all gamers.

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