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TullyAckland

03/20/15 - Eternal Kingdoms!

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This is where the boards come in.  Advertising your EK and working the word of mouth machine will be necessary if you want to get folks to come.

 

Giving specific guilds discounts so their members visit you is another option.  And banning their enemies from your EK will help as well.  Lots of ways to make yourself stand out.

 

The only thing we didn't have of what you listed. is banning people from your own personal property. We had people use our message boards to organize hangouts, meetups, trades. Those properties shot up in rating for a day or two, then back down (in game). It can work strictly out of game, but there are more permanent easier solutions, and that's from ratings. Not everyone uses out of game message boards. You shouldn't discount those people just because they don't play the same as others.

Edited by shival

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They are so so soooo close to being so so sooooo special. All they need is a more direct tie that helps fuel the PVP part of the game that makes it foolish to ignore them. 

 

If you're a min-maxer, you already can't ignore them. You have absolutely no recourse against an enemy's economic powerhouse Kingdom except to try and develop your own so you can be on even footing within the campaign.

 

Or, you can just run with your tail between you legs and stick to non-import campaigns.

Edited by Teekey

UkBSCr2.png


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If you're a min-maxer, you already can't ignore them. You have absolutely no recourse against an enemy's economic powerhouse Kingdom except to try and develop your own so you can be on even footing within the campaign.

 

Or, you can just run with your tail between you legs and stick to non-import campaigns.

 

You'll still have the "buffs" in those though right? Which min-maxers still wouldn't be able to ignore with a good conscience.


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They are so so soooo close to being so so sooooo special. All they need is a more direct tie that helps fuel the PVP part of the game that makes it foolish to ignore them. 

 

What if they created something called a campaign in which you could get resources from to build your EK and you could only get the resources in this "campaign"?

 

BOOM! genius.

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Great update!

Question are:

EK Fealty system is completely separate from the Guild system- confirmed

Campaign Fealty system is completely separate from the two above? or ther is no such a thing?

EK Fealty system is character based or accaunt based?

Guild system is character based or accaunt based?

Is there a EK size cap limit? Or its limited only to upkeep/decay/watsoever?

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You'll still have the "buffs" in those though right? Which min-maxers still wouldn't be able to ignore with a good conscience.

 

I think Todd was considering having campaigns where the buffs don't work, but that is just a band aid fix and will create an even bigger rift between the player base. Hiding in no import, no buffs campaigns is not an option, and we will eventually be forced to play the game as the majority are playing it. Besides, I don't want to have to hide my tail, it's cute, and fluffy. :(

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IF you are a min-maxer what exactly keeps you from organizing yourself together with others of your liking to min-max?

This is a mmo ffs. Try to socialize as it's meant to be played.

 

And the real competitive minded players will always stick to terminator modes. So they could't care less about 'carebearing in the Trammel worlds'.

What ARE you actually arguing for? If you have a tooth to pick with Trammel you know how to contact Gordon, don't you?

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And the real competitive minded players will always stick to terminator modes. So they could't care less about 'carebearing in the Trammel worlds'.

 

I hope you're right. Even so, how many of these types of players do you anticipate? Enough to sustain multiple campaigns, or barely enough for one? I am not disagreeing with you or trying to be rude, I am honestly curious how much interest there is going to be for the "terminator" style campaigns, especially now that we know how important and ambitious the EKs are going to be.

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We're arguing for EK to be the meaninful part of the game it has the potential to be. It is the only perminant part of the game besides your character, campaigns are fought in order to bring back resources. For what are we working our asses off in campaigns tho? To build a shiny sand castle and state at it? To stroll through the forest without a care in the world? Without risk, reward is boring.

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A very meaty update!  The EK sightly reminds me of Sims, which is great.  For people who enjoy building/crafting/creating, it's an extra fun element to Crowfall that doesn't heavily affect the actual gameplay.  If EK were to become any more "meaningful", then it would be unfair to those who do not wish to participate in EK, and it would simply become another pvp based mmorpg.  So good job on finding a fairly good balance for EK!  On a random note, I love the reference to Tetris (one of my favorite games). 

Edited by xene

3d0d8f69-fe9b-4388-a220-3b2486e07d40_zps

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In fact... I don't love theses EK for this :

With persistents EK non-owned by player, we would have (for example) 3 servers with 4k players on each! A lot of activity... Instead we'll have a server with 25 players, another with 93 players, another with 250 players...

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first, EK are the only permenant world's and really the only way to make your mark on the game. Second, it's the design of the game to work your bottom off in campaigns to provide for your EK. If EK are boring, perminant, land/cityscaping simulators with zero risk at all, why should pvper's even care? That all being said, it was marketed to people like me as a niche PvP game with the purpose of building kingdoms. Turns out everyone can have one and building kingdoms meant just that and nothing more. once it's built it's yours forever. No risk, just expensive player housing/trophy rooms.

A few thoughts here.  I think you had an idea in your head about what you wanted in the game and like so many of us have realized it turns out the the devs had a different idea than you did. It's a disappointing moment, I know. I'm not going to go all "stop questioning the devs! It's their game and stop challenging them!" on you because that does no good.  Rather I'mma gonna try to see things from your POV and provide solutions that may give you part of what you want if you're willing to do some work.

 

From what I understand you want the EK's to have as much risk as the campaign worlds since they are the only place to make a permanent mark in the game other than your character stats.  EK's can have PvP turned on.  PvP loving players can turn on PvP in their EK's and create a ranking system themselves and keep track of it on these boards or a website.  You can have a meaningful PvP structure in the EK if you're willing to create one.

 

I can hear folks now saying "but it's not meaningful unless everyone is at the same risk/every EK is PvP!"

 

That makes no sense.  I am a crafter type and if you don't craft and compete with me to make the best items ingame makes no difference to me as far as how much I like crafting.  Your participation has no impact on my enjoyment of the game.  My participation in PvP on an EK level should have no impact on your enjoyment of the game.

 

There will be EK PvP among hardcore PvP'ers whose skill and ability makes winning mean something.  Don't wait around for CF to provide you with EK PvP.  Create it yourself if it's truly important to you.


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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There just seems to be a disconnect in the design. Either you care about the EK to get the most out of campaigns...or you just play campaigns for the sake of playing campaigns?

 

 

I play plenty of games just because they are fun, not because there is some potential carrot dangling out there.  What is wrong with playing the campaigns just for the sake of playing?

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I hope you're right. Even so, how many of these types of players do you anticipate? Enough to sustain multiple campaigns, or barely enough for one? I am not disagreeing with you or trying to be rude, I am honestly curious how much interest there is going to be for the "terminator" style campaigns, especially now that we know how important and ambitious the EKs are going to be.

I honestly don't know and don't care. As long as everyone is able to find a ruleset they can stick to through the length of a campaign there is no reason to complain. As there is no reason to argue about any feature's repercussion on the game without all parts being laid out in front of us.

 

I'm just starting to detest this attitude of 'everything needs to be balanced into submissive boringness' that comes up in these forums time and time again because someone finds their perfect vision of how this game 'has to be' threatened just because they don't get the whole picture yet. This overly emphasized strife for balance is nothing but killing off the opportunity for Crowfall to be genuinely creative and new if ACE would ever give in to these claims.

Edited by Angier

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In fact... I don't love theses EK for this :

With persistents EK non-owned by player, we would have (for example) 3 servers with 4k players on each! A lot of activity... Instead we'll have a server with 25 players, another with 93 players, another with 250 players...

 

Have you been in an area of 4,000 players? What can you accomplish other than hundreds of people in a huddle /dancing? even if you have only 100 people chatting at once, it's not an area I want to be in, even with an ignore feature (which is stupid as well. "oh that guy's a tr0ll. ignore. anyone know where I get this resource." tr0ll answers. "anyone?"

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OK, I slogged through all of the posts before putting this together to maximize the relevance of my own post. Here goes.

 

EK clarifications:

  • they have a couple typos where they mix up their terminology about parcels/cells/etc. If you see an inconsistency it is almost certainly one of these typos
  • a 'parcel' is one of the 'tetris' pieces
  • each parcel is made up of 1+ 'cell' squares
  • the size of a cell is still in design largely to balance between foot/mounted/caravan travel
  • each cell is made up of 'lot' squares. The buildings are sized to a grid of lots. 
  • everyone has their 9 cell 'home kingdom'
  • any additional cells (KS rewards, in-game purchases, whatever) can be placed in either their home kingdom or another kingdom where they have sworn into the fealty tree
  • leaving a fealty tree means that you take any parcels that you placed in that kingdom with you along with any improvements you built on them

EK non-PvP vs PvP Campaigns

A small number of posters seem to have a fundamental problem with the idea of the EK being innately non-PvP. Their fundamental objection seems to be that there is a built-in motivation for them to participate in EK to gain benefits in the game (crafting, etc) but that they will be forced to play non-PvP while doing so.

This is fundamentally true but there are several things that will soften the blow.

 

Mitigating factors for EK non-PvP:

  • EKs have no innate resource generation whatsoever; PvP Campaigns are the ONLY source for all of the rent, construction costs, and crafting materials in the EKs. This means that EKers need PvPers but PvPers only want EKers.
  • Campaigns will be long duration PvP worlds ranging up to 6 months in duration. Throughout that entire duration the majority of crafting will occur on a PvP Dying World. Completion of a Campaign will usually result in a PvP focused player touring through the EKs with their booty to find the best deals before quickly returning to the next PvP Dying World.
  • EKs will always be happening but they will work heavily in a boom-bust cycle as each Dying World Campaign completes and the influx of resources is bargained over. Many EKs will wither and shrink between Campaigns if they don't negotiate well or plan badly. 
  • Smart PvP & EK Crafter players will team up; they will go to a PvP world together where the crafter will keep the PvPer in top fighting form in exchange for protection and a gauranteed share of the loot.

I'm working on the logistics of putting together a crew to hire out for the last point, myself,

CopperStall

 

Edit: Lots of typos and some formatting fixes

Edit 2: Eltahin reminded me of the name of 'Lots' so I updated my clarification

Edited by CopperStall

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Except this game has been marketed as Play2Crush, Risk vs Reward, Not for Everyone!

Play2Crush means PvP centric.

Risk vs Reward means that everyone will have to put themselves at risk if they want to reap any rewards and that is handled by the campaigns.

Not for Everyone means that not everyone will want to play this game.

 

Where in there is "The EK's have to be auto PvP!"?


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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I play plenty of games just because they are fun, not because there is some potential carrot dangling out there.  What is wrong with playing the campaigns just for the sake of playing?

 

There's nothing wrong with it. But MMOs are always about achieving something, getting something someone else doesn't, etc. You want to be the Have vs the Have Not.

 

To be honest, rather than 1% to Archery in a Relic, I'd rather have some cool visual armor upgrades, or a battle standard I could plant in my enemy's corpse.

 

Beating people is fun. But being able to rub it in their face with a cool looking item is even better!  :D


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CF.GG


Your primary source of Crowfall news, guides, and information.

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In fact... I don't love theses EK for this :

With persistents EK non-owned by player, we would have (for example) 3 servers with 4k players on each! A lot of activity... Instead we'll have a server with 25 players, another with 93 players, another with 250 players...

 

Wait, you want a small set of servers in order to force a large amount of players to interact? That's called the campaign, dude. Go to the dregs, you'll get plenty of 'interaction'.


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