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Kobold Princess

The Eternal Kingdoms

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Hello again friends. It's time for another longwinded post by yours truly.

 

By now, most of you have probably read the EK update. If not, i would suggest you do! It's quite fascinating. Read it here!

 

With that out of the way, I have an idea. It's a relatively simple idea, too. But it starts with a question.

 

 

What happens when you walk off the edge of your EK?

 

Let's say it's release. You have been playing in beta for a while, and have gotten had some fun. Maybe you were even allowed to build your EK in beta, dropping your parcels and using a small stipend of resources from beta victories to decorate a bit. Then the game launches, and off you go to the campaign, and have your fun. Win or lose, you have a good time, and head back to your EK. It's nice. Maybe you've kept your beta buildings. Maybe you've built a few new ones. Whatever happened, you now have a little Kingdom to play with.. Your guild has a castle now too, and a fun little community has been created. Maybe you build with them instead. You even have a relic. Everyone's feeling good, and everyone feels like doing something crazy.

 

So, you go for a walk. You walk past your guild parcels, assuming you build with them. You walk past the little farms and inns the Vassals have set up, or that you built yourself, and you hit the edge of the EK.

 

What if you keep walking?

 

What if, instead of hitting an invisible, or shimmering blue wall, you keep going? What if instead of hitting nothing, you hit something. What if you walk into someone else's EK. Perhaps it's a rival guild's. Perhaps capturing that Relic in the last campaign, and placing it in your EK had a side effect. What if it flagged your kingdom for PvP, and made it visible on the EK Worldmap, allowing others to move theirs to empty cells adjacent to it? You'd find yourself in a war very quickly, and it'd be with new enemies, with new rules.

 

Or maybe not. Maybe you just walk into some random low-level person's EK. You can't destroy his house, but you can come to visit, and offer him membership if that's your thing. Or invite him over to the tavern. Or maybe you just keep walking, and past his EK, you find another, and another, and another.

 

A Vision for The Eternal Kingdoms

 

My idea is as follows:

 

Connect the Eternal Kingdoms. Place every single person's EK on a gigantic interconnected grid. Randomize the placement initially, but allow movement with restrictions (Likely a substantial cooldown, and for guilds, a substantial cost). Allow people to invite others, or to charge others, to move their EKs adjacent to eachother. When guilds take certain Relics or Artifacts out of campaigns, flag them for PvP, and show them on the map. Anyone with EKs near those guilds then become potential staging points for invasions, and would need to be worked with. (That, or they'd just up and move out to avoid the drama).

 

This could be further refined by having 'Sectors' of EKs with set rules. IE: No closing access to your EK (For areas with Artifacts, to prevent 'walling off' EKs), Forced always-on PvP (Basically a player-built null-sec), Never-on PvP (Gigantic Social Hub), etc. etc.


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I think that's how everyone would want them to work. Is it possible, though? I don't think so..

 

Why not? EKs are already made up of square grids. Why not attach them? Just surround everyone's starting position with a handful of empty seeded cells with unowned 'nothing' land, and let people expand onto those to start. As people expand, push the surrounding lands out a bit with more empty cells. They wouldn't have to be totally space, but they could be procedurally generated based on the land of the EK owner behind them.


 

 

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Why not? EKs are already made up of square grids. Why not attach them? Just surround everyone's starting position with a handful of empty seeded cells with unowned 'nothing' land, and let people expand onto those to start. As people expand, push the surrounding lands out a bit with more empty cells. They wouldn't have to be totally space, but they could be procedurally generated based on the land of the EK owner behind them.

 

Hell, make the 'borderlands' around each EK big enough, and you can even fudge the transition, making it way easier from a technical level. Walk far enough into the borderlands for your own EK to turn into a distant speck, then the next one starts to appear on the horizon. Bish bash bosh, instanced serverside, a cohesive, explorable, ever-expanding world clientside.


 

 

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That would definitely open up some interesting possibilities. I've wondered how they would do the EK vs EK battles they had mentioned, this would allow for a hared border, rather than one or two spawn locations that the enemy attacks from. The only trouble would be the locked private EK, would they have to be shoved to the outside of the map. And I can imagine rivers and mountain ranges would eventually be a nightmare to connect.

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I think there is some value to the idea of inter-connected EKs, but I don't think the idea of making them some big overworld is the right way to go about it.

 

If this were to be implemented, I see it as more fruitful if there was sort of a "docking" mechanic (to use a totally thematically wrong word), where you can connect one side of your EK with the side of another.

 

This would allow you to chain/pool together allied EKs for guilds, or dock alongside an enemy EK in order to launch an attack.

 

Of course, all of this depends on whether or not the EKs will really be valuable for people.  Only time will tell on that one.

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Horrible. There's no way to implement this. There's already over 13,000 backers. So assuming no one else buys the game, that's 13,000 EK's. You can assume that each EK will take no less than one minute to cross. If we assume the world is round, it could take me 13,000 minutes to go around the "world" or 6,500 minutes to go to an EK on the other side of the world. That's 4 and half DAYS of running.

 

Oh, add runegates, portals, a search engine, instant travel? Now the EK is sounding more like it is in current existence. And my example is naive in assuming that there will be only 13k EK's. In reality, it's easily going to be 100k EK's. So even if you made each "world" 100 interconnected EK's, we're still talking about a 50 minute run and over 1,000 "worlds".

 

I got better things to do than run through 50 empty EKs on my way to find 1 good one just because you want some social interaction.

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Horrible. There's no way to implement this. There's already over 13,000 backers. So assuming no one else buys the game, that's 13,000 EK's. You can assume that each EK will take no less than one minute to cross. If we assume the world is round, it could take me 13,000 minutes to go around the "world" or 6,500 minutes to go to an EK on the other side of the world. That's 4 and half DAYS of running.

 

Oh, add runegates, portals, a search engine, instant travel? Now the EK is sounding more like it is in current existence. And my example is naive in assuming that there will be only 13k EK's. In reality, it's easily going to be 100k EK's. So even if you made each "world" 100 interconnected EK's, we're still talking about a 50 minute run and over 1,000 "worlds".

 

I got better things to do than run through 50 empty EKs on my way to find 1 good one just because you want some social interaction.

 

You're right. It would be an absolutely enormous, endless expanse, and 'going for a walk to find some action' would be fruitless, and take forever. (Much like just flying in one direction in EvE).

 

It was a narrative tool to introduce the idea, nothing more. You're kidding yourself if you think it wouldn't get mapped quickly though, especially if you ensured Artifacts could be stolen. If anytime an Artifact got dropped into your world, your happy little EK showed up on the map, and could be traveled to and sieged, then people would cluster their worlds together, just for protection if nothing else. This would just add a way to interconnect EKs without fundamentally changing the way they worked, and give a reason for PvP players to do so.


 

 

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I don't mind connecting the kingdoms, but the EK is not the meat of the game. People need to quit trying to turn it into it.

 

I'll be blunt that I actually like the current design of the EKs. I was trying to find a way for them to have value for the Hardcore PvP crowd, which at the end of the day is good for the health of the game. (Especially if they start selling us land)


 

 

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Wow that's an awesome idea!

But instead of having only one giant grid, you'd only have to connect a few EKs that have bout the same development level. Those EKs could then have some sort of territorial campaign and fight over a new parcel. Once a winner is decided, they get the parcel, and the connection will be gone.

The bigger your EK gets, the harder you're opponents will become obviously. And the penalty for losing such a game would also become increasingly harsh, so that you would have to regather ressources in the dying worlds.

 

This could actually be some kind of Territorial Control game, which you would have in a persistent and open world.

Damn this could be f-ing amazing, or is it just me?!

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I'll be blunt that I actually like the current design of the EKs. I was trying to find a way for them to have value for the Hardcore PvP crowd, which at the end of the day is good for the health of the game. (Especially if they start selling us land)

 

It's a graphical lobby instead of having a server select screen everytime a campaign is over.

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Wow that's an awesome idea!

But instead of having only one giant grid, you'd only have to connect a few EKs that have bout the same development level. Those EKs could then have some sort of territorial campaign and fight over a new parcel. Once a winner is decided, they get the parcel, and the connection will be gone.

The bigger your EK gets, the harder you're opponents will become obviously. And the penalty for losing such a game would also become increasingly harsh, so that you would have to regather ressources in the dying worlds.

 

This could actually be some kind of Territorial Control game, which you would have in a persistent and open world.

Damn this could be f-ing amazing, or is it just me?!

 

You've just basically described Shadowbane. One of the lessons they learned from that is if you make the penalties too harsh, then people will quit the game which is why they are not going to put the EK's themselves on the line. Temporary debuffs, switching off artefacts, spending resources to repair / loot, perhaps but I very much doubt it'd go beyond that.

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You've just basically described Shadowbane. One of the lessons they learned from that is if you make the penalties too harsh, then people will quit the game which is why they are not going to put the EK's themselves on the line. Temporary debuffs, switching off artefacts, spending resources to repair / loot, perhaps but I very much doubt it'd go beyond that.

 

I'm not talking about Shadowbane, that game didn't have instanced worlds did it? And penalties dont have to make you loose your EK, but maybe just expensive siege equipment. But at some point the risk must become higher so that it becomes increasingly difficult to expand your empire.

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I'm not talking about Shadowbane, that game didn't have instanced worlds did it? And penalties dont have to make you loose your EK, but maybe just expensive siege equipment. But at some point the risk must become higher so that it becomes increasingly difficult to expand your empire.

 

"I reject your example because I didn't play your game. Good day, sir.

 

I said good day!" Fixed.

 

How in the world could we make it increasingly difficult for someone to expand their empire, hrmmmm.

 

Thus far, more parcels either cost more KS money but that ends in a few days. Parcels will take resources which you get from campaigns. Campaigns will have siege AND PvP. They can have 100 parcels but if they can't get anything to put on them, what's the point? Even if you can buy parcels from a cash shop later, unless you back the right package in KS, you're not going to get the resources from a campaign unless they have the skill/politics/etc to get the resources they need from a campaign.

 

You guys cry alot. They should just merge any thread with "EK" in it because it's the same stream of tears no matter which one I read.

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They should just merge any thread with "EK" in it because it's the same stream of tears no matter which one I read.

 

Including yours in this one.


 

 

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Thus far, more parcels either cost more KS money but that ends in a few days. Parcels will take resources which you get from campaigns. Campaigns will have siege AND PvP. They can have 100 parcels but if they can't get anything to put on them, what's the point? Even if you can buy parcels from a cash shop later, unless you back the right package in KS, you're not going to get the resources from a campaign unless they have the skill/politics/etc to get the resources they need from a campaign.

 

Seriously though, you're right. The EK structure as it is requires anyone who wants to expand their EKs to involve the Campaigns, which are obviously primarily PvP. What exactly is the drawback to making the EKs have value as more than just a trophy room / guildhall for PvP guilds?

 

Assuming it could be done in a way that didn't detract or pull people away from the campaigns, which any sort of territorial control poorly made socks (including this suggestion) probably would.

 

I dunno. It's a tough line to walk. Either you make the EKs safezones, and they have value as Social Hubs and Trophy Rooms (and little else), or you add conflict to them, and expand the scope of warfare from just individual campaigns.

 

tbqh, I think this is probably a feature that would result in a lot of dev effort to balance, if not to implement. Maybe a one day down the line thing, but it'd probably be a waste of resources to have it for release.


 

 

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You guys cry alot. They should just merge any thread with "EK" in it because it's the same stream of tears no matter which one I read.

 

Don't know where you see streams of tears..

I was just thinking about a way to have some kind of territorial conquest while also maintaining  a Safe Zone Capital within this instanced system.

If we could have both everyone would be happy.

They already said they were thinking about an EK vs EK system, I am curious to see what they will come up with.

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Hell, make the 'borderlands' around each EK big enough, and you can even fudge the transition, making it way easier from a technical level. Walk far enough into the borderlands for your own EK to turn into a distant speck, then the next one starts to appear on the horizon. Bish bash bosh, instanced serverside, a cohesive, explorable, ever-expanding world clientside.

 

Problem being, in this method of doing things, server is always loading EK's which it will be doing anyways, but will also be loading this new wilderness space as players transition through it. There could potentially thousands of players in transition at any given time, that's a huge variable workload for the servers. And what about pvp rules? If you left from a kingdom with them on, do they follow you into the wilderness? 

 

I think instead of a seamless kingdom, when you hit the border you either fall off, or are "Unnerved by a mysterious force." I don't particularly care for the linked kingdoms idea, the technical aspects of making this possible make it not worthwhile for me...

 

That being said, portals. When one kingdom declares war on another, the portal that takes you to invade should scatter the invaders across the kingdom, OR transport them somewhere randomly based on the lightest player traffic, that way the attackers can't be ambushed, and also it gives the defenders just enough time to organize a defense with available garrison, but not really enough to get more of the guild online to help.

 

Edited for spell check.

Edited by Gcheilan

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