Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Sign in to follow this  
tsp_maj

Lessons Learned from the Past

Recommended Posts

I think we should be focusing on what was DONE RIGHT by the past games.

 

 

This topic is about lessons learned, for good or bad.  What do you think has been done right?  

 


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

One thing I really would not want to sacrifice under any circumstances are the player stories.  To me one of the primary difference between a World of Warcraft and a Shadowbane, or a Call of Duty and a Dayz, is the source of rich storytelling.

 

Even though "balance-wise" all of the launch servers for SB were technically in political, economic, and military deadlock for months (beta guilds like R30's, LAPD, Warriornation auto-baning people for leveling up their trainers past a certain amount, etc), There were these fascinating "fighting the evil empire" stories that came out of almost every server.  So while some of the harsher elements of this kind of gameplay can be overly exclusive, there is something to be said about the social interactions that occur in environments like that.

 

I think that this brings me back to one of the foundational principals of what an MMO is about.  Community, and social interaction.  Developers have aimed to make everyone a solo artist.  To level in almost any game now you can do it completely solo, a thing unheard of in older games.  That means that you don't need anyone to exist in the game.  If you don't need anyone than you don't care about anyone.  If you don't care about anyone then, well... that's where you lose those stories you hold so dear. 

 

Even WoW on everyones favorite PVP server there were great stories told for the first year or so.  The server forums were full of colorful boasts about the fights going on in the game.  You knew the people you were fighting, and it felt so much more gratifying when you killed them, and much more painful when they killed you.  It's this amplification of emotional highs and lows that create a great PVP game.  You cannot experience the greatest bliss without also having experienced the worst sorrow.

 

Once arenas were introduced and pickup groups became the norm people would just log in, instant action, and log out.  You could do this without ever even typing a word.  Your allies and enemies might as well be NPC's.

 

What's funny about our community is that we collectively have done this to ourselves.  We want everything easy and given to us.  Take all of our favorite titles from the past and instantly give yourself the highest level, the best equipment, and the highest titles and see how long you play for.  There is no game without ambition and a challenging path to travel to get there.

 

Edited by tsp_maj

Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Ones arenas were introduced and pickup groups became the norm people would just log in, instant action, and log out.  You could do this without ever even typing a word.  Your allies and enemies might as well be NPC's.

This is WoW in a nutshell.  Blizzard destroyed it's own community.  Vanilla WoW had some potential, in a watered down sort of way.  But at least the community was forming.  But no, Blizzard had to go and destroy that.  Now it's not even a world.  It's a an interface to choose which game do I want to play today?  Raid?  Dungeon?  PvP Arena?  Pet battle arena?  Whichever I choose, I'll be insta-teleported to in moments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that this brings me back to one of the foundational principals of what an MMO is about.  Community, and social interaction.  Developers have aimed to make everyone a solo artist.  To level in almost any game now you can do it completely solo, a thing unheard of in older games.  That means that you don't need anyone to exist in the game.  If you don't need anyone than you don't care about anyone.  If you don't care about anyone then, well... that's where you lose those stories you hold so dear. 

 

Even WoW on everyones favorite PVP server there were great stories told for the first year or so.  The server forums were full of colorful boasts about the fights going on in the game.  You knew the people you were fighting, and it felt so much more gratifying when you killed them, and much more painful when they killed you.  It's this amplification of emotional highs and lows that create a great PVP game.  You cannot experience the greatest bliss without also having experienced the worst sorrow.

 

Once arenas were introduced and pickup groups became the norm people would just log in, instant action, and log out.  You could do this without ever even typing a word.  Your allies and enemies might as well be NPC's.

 

What's funny about our community is that we collectively have done this to ourselves.  We want everything easy and given to us.  Take all of our favorite titles from the past and instantly give yourself the highest level, the best equipment, and the highest titles and see how long you play for.  There is no game without ambition and a challenging path to travel to get there.

 

Hehe when Tauren Mill and South Shore fights stopped, the fun times, stories and all that died as well.

 

Only fun times I really had in WoW was those fights, way way back in the beggining.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hehe when Tauren Mill and South Shore fights stopped, the fun times, stories and all that died as well.

 

Only fun times I really had in WoW was those fights, way way back in the beggining.

 

Same for me but I also enjoyed guild matches in the battlegrounds vs guilds on our server.  That didn't last long either. 


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Games of the past fails is ultimately set by the direction of the creator. When you ask opinion from a community you're going to get a million response. You can't take everyone's idea. At the same time you have to give something that the community wants. It's a delicate situation. Here's the problem with dungeons and pvp. You will end up lacking in players to continue the lower contents. After the initial wave of players you generally lack players that will continue to do things at the lower level. This creates the effect of becoming a solo player.

 

Replay ability is what almost every mmo lacks because every game is about progression. Then there is the part when you reach the peak of your progression. At this stage you normally have nothing to do but either pvp, raid, or do dungeons. Many mmo fail to create content to keep players who reached the peak interested because they end up repeating the same cycle over and over again until they become sick of the game and leave.  Lastly what keep players playing a game is strongly base on preference. Some prefer the new action style, some prefer the tab targeting, some prefer the 2.5d graphic.

Edited by chem45695

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Replay ability is what almost every mmo lacks because every game is about progression. Then there is the part when you reach the peak of your progression. At this stage you normally have nothing to do but either pvp, raid, or do dungeons. Many mmo fail to create content to keep players who reached the peak interested because they end up repeating the same cycle over and over again until they become sick of the game and leave.

I want to single out this comment because it highlights the naivety of the modern MMO player based on what the developers have ingrained in the players.  It is NOT the developers job to to provide content.  A successful MMO should provide an atmosphere, world, and circumstance that allows players to provide the content.  A great example, and the most common, is any game where the community has control and power.  In the modern MMO, control is removed from the player to allow the developers to spoon feed stories.  But this is not necessary, as players are more than willing to create stories for themselves, if given the tools to do so.

 

Here is an example.  One day, a powerful world leader insulted a man's betrothed in the most vile of terms.  The man was merely a cutthroat with no political clout, with few friends that would be willing to stand up to such a powerful individual,  But this cutthroat had honor and would not allow this leader of men to speak against whom he considered family.  The man made a challenge in a public forum to a duel to the death for the honor of his lovely bride to be.  The rules were laid out in public and a time and location set to meet.  The two battled in a best of three event with numerous attended in the crowd.  The powerful man was known across the shard as an outstanding fighter, but the cutthroat would not be discouraged.  He fought valiantly but was only able to fell the man once out of three.  Ultimately he loss, but he gained the respect of numerous who were too afraid to stand up the Guild leader of the most powerful group in the lands.

 

This happened.  I can't tell you A SINGLE STORYLINE from the 123904873 quests I did in World of Warcraft.  But, I will never forget the stories I made and participated in during my time in UO.

 

(I was the cutthroat in the story if that wasn't obvious.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lucius, on 11 Jan 2015 - 02:22 AM, said:

I want to single out this comment because it highlights the naivety of the modern MMO player based on what the developers have ingrained in the players.  It is NOT the developers job to to provide content.  A successful MMO should provide an atmosphere, world, and circumstance that allows players to provide the content.  A great example, and the most common, is any game where the community has control and power.  In the modern MMO, control is removed from the player to allow the developers to spoon feed stories.  But this is not necessary, as players are more than willing to create stories for themselves, if given the tools to do so.

 

Here is an example.  One day, a powerful world leader insulted a man's betrothed in the most vile of terms.  The man was merely a cutthroat with no political clout, with few friends that would be willing to stand up to such a powerful individual,  But this cutthroat had honor and would not allow this leader of men to speak against whom he considered family.  The man made a challenge in a public forum to a duel to the death for the honor of his lovely bride to be.  The rules were laid out in public and a time and location set to meet.  The two battled in a best of three event with numerous attended in the crowd.  The powerful man was known across the shard as an outstanding fighter, but the cutthroat would not be discouraged.  He fought valiantly but was only able to fell the man once out of three.  Ultimately he loss, but he gained the respect of numerous who were too afraid to stand up the Guild leader of the most powerful group in the lands.

 

This happened.  I can't tell you A SINGLE STORYLINE from the 123904873 quests I did in World of Warcraft.  But, I will never forget the stories I made and participated in during my time in UO.

 

(I was the cutthroat in the story if that wasn't obvious.)

 

I think you misunderstand my meaning, I don't specifically target developer as the sole creator of the contents. I am speaking in general that many mmo lacks the ability to create contents to keep players interested. I'm also not specifically targeting story as well. I do agree players creating stories can lead to some entertaining stuff. But In general things to do to break free of the cycle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is exactly why the game should NOT be JUST PvP focused. When you enter this game world, you should not be forced to become a warrior. Yes, I do want this game to be GvG and PvP themed, and I'm sure it will be, but there needs to be variety, not only to appeal to a wider variety of players, but to also make this world more dynamic.

 

Guilds shouldn't be a guild composed soley of warriors. There should be the soldiers, yes. But there should also be the crafters. Hunters. Merchants. Everything that contributes to a well functioning clan / city. A city can't run soley on soldiers in real life, why should it in this one? 

 

If you want to craft, join a guild and become one of their crafter's, create swords for the knights, fletch arrows for the archers. Repair broken armor. Maybe even do trade with other guilds if the one your in allows it. These people can play the game and have fun too, they'll likely encounter PvP often, but they know that, and they probably will be doing a lot of PvP. But PvP isn't everyone's main idea of having fun or passing time, and at least if they have the option of doing what they find fun, they'll stick around even if they're ganked by Hardcore PK'er

Edited by kalvin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even WoW on everyones favorite PVP server there were great stories told for the first year or so.  The server forums were full of colorful boasts about the fights going on in the game.  You knew the people you were fighting, and it felt so much more gratifying when you killed them, and much more painful when they killed you.  It's this amplification of emotional highs and lows that create a great PVP game.  You cannot experience the greatest bliss without also having experienced the worst sorrow.

 

Once arenas were introduced and pickup groups became the norm people would just log in, instant action, and log out.  You could do this without ever even typing a word.  Your allies and enemies might as well be NPC's.

 

Thing is some people come to MMORPGs from single-player background (me, for one... though it was some time ago). So they barely understand the social group dynamic happening in MMROPGs. A lot of old online games relied on person-to-person cooperation heavily as you know and mentioned. It is much easier for a such player to play in PvP where he has no dependency on others (or responsibility: I mean you can shout until your eyes bleed out to fight proper in that WoW matches, that wouldn't matter). On the other hand it is fun (okay, don't hate me for saying this) and accessible. WoW was changed time and again in favor of this accessibility. Whether is right or wrong, good or bad it's another matter entirely.

 

Those changes had a certain purpose tied to marketing - that's the point I want to make.

 

I hope we don't see it in this title. Every attempt to make game more accessible to general public made it less than it was, even if said attempt succeeded. Some games became so stuffed with diverse features that their gameplay become barely recognizable from what they were. And in attempt to provide everything they provide nothing in particular.


oaOnsEV.jpg?1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...