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ConstantineX

E Sports, The Future Of Competitive Gaming

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I think it paramount this title have some sort of esport associated to it.  I am not even particularly a fan of esports but you cannot deny the mass appeal that comes with it.  Almost every major game, mmo or match based, has a definitive system for determining player versus player ranking.  In turn this leads to the establishment of the top players/kingdoms/ guilds etc. These people in turn will become the Pros.  The optimal time for a "match" to be completed is an hour or two similar to a T.V. Show or Sports game.  What if the tournament was Kingdom versus Kingdom In equal starting structures on a pvp map or the structures are brought by your EK and you earn them. In your castle you have a point you're defending and the enemy has one as well.  Just a broad thought.  Would love to hear others thoughts.


-The Legion shall forever be reborn

 

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I think it paramount this title have some sort of esport associated to it.  I am not even particularly a fan of esports but you cannot deny the mass appeal that comes with it.  Almost every major game, mmo or match based, has a definitive system for determining player versus player ranking.  In turn this leads to the establishment of the top players/kingdoms/ guilds etc. These people in turn will become the Pros.  The optimal time for a "match" to be completed is an hour or two similar to a T.V. Show or Sports game.  What if the tournament was Kingdom versus Kingdom In equal starting structures on a pvp map or the structures are brought by your EK and you earn them. In your castle you have a point you're defending and the enemy has one as well.  Just a broad thought.  Would love to hear others thoughts.

Esports don't work well with mmorpgs... it's a major distraction for the devs that takes away from the quality of the regular players.  Blizzard deemed it not worth the investment to balance around esports.  GW2 has not had very much success with the popularity of the game as an esport. 

 

Esports are best left to games designed to be esports.  Generally small numbers vs small numbers in some sorta fixed arena. 

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The thing is, this game isn't designed to be an esport. Esports are able to be watched as a spectator sport, and as you said, take 1-2 hours. This game is the antithesis of a spectators sport; it's slow, campaigns take months. This, combined with the terrible track record of MMOs shoehorning in Esports, makes this a bad idea. In this way forcing Crowfall to have an esport attached to it would most likely harm, not help it.

 

Let me ask you this: in your opinion WHY is it paramount that Crowfall be an Esport? If you only want to fill the competition PvP niche then it's unnecessary, we are already going to have the tournament system.

Edited by amazering

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I've yet to see Esport improve a games play, beyond that, Esports belong in controlled competitive scenarios, in a short enough timeframe to watch a match in an hour or so, not a month or more of progressive building...


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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@sheen and @amazering Pretty much summed it up quite well. In saying that the tournament stretch goal could lead to player run e-sport esque tournaments, if it catches on can have some help from devs with certain ruleset changes etc. Dayz Survivor games is a community run tournament in a game not made for esports that does quite well  viewship wise and receives help from the devs.

In the end the game is meant to be fun, adding E-sports to the notion will drain what fun and customizable ability freedom the game could have but having big player run spectacles will happen all the time while still being fun 

Edited by Bionics

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Esports are best left to games designed to be esports.  Generally small numbers vs small numbers in some sorta fixed arena. 

 

Charlie said it all...you don't quarrel with genius

 

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EVE tries attracting the eSports crowd year after year with their tournaments but don't gain any traction because of EvE's premise that nothing happens in a vacuum (despite being set in one, I know...).

 

The same goes for Crowfall and it's potential for complexity.

 

Games like these are simply too hard to follow.

So.... not worth the effort.

 

Oh! Crowfall is not a MOBA!

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eSports need spectators.

 

Spectators need to know what's going on.

 

If campaigns take 3 months, spectators being able to give out information will destroy any chance of ambush, surprise, etc.

 

No eSports for Crowfall.  No thank you.

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They could be week long clan tournaments and run a highlight reel of the week long battle.  It would allow cheating I think to stream that live.  This full fills that time frame and offers an elongated combat struggle as the game intends.  Players that desire that content receive it and it offers a time frame for higher tier elimination matches.  You could even have specific times during the week when objectives on the map spawn that you can stream live. The Idea is to force conflict at the ideal time to broadcast live within the longer campaign.  I'd love more feedback  Blizzard had an esport following, even without considering balancing for PvP as much as PvE.  This game is entirely PvP.  They only need to balance the campaigns and then have the tournament.  Does not need to altar the game whatsoever.  I just think the larger of an event the tournament is only stands to return financially to the game, this in turn allows the game to hire more people, create more content, everything.  


-The Legion shall forever be reborn

 

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They could be week long clan tournaments and run a highlight reel of the week long battle.  It would allow cheating I think to stream that live.  This full fills that time frame and offers an elongated combat struggle as the game intends.  Players that desire that content receive it and it offers a time frame for higher tier elimination matches.  You could even have specific times during the week when objectives on the map spawn that you can stream live. The Idea is to force conflict at the ideal time to broadcast live within the longer campaign.  I'd love more feedback  Blizzard had an esport following, even without considering balancing for PvP as much as PvE.  This game is entirely PvP.  They only need to balance the campaigns and then have the tournament.  Does not need to altar the game whatsoever.  I just think the larger of an event the tournament is only stands to return financially to the game, this in turn allows the game to hire more people, create more content, everything.  

Blizzard had an esports following because they had a huge population already established as well as esports arena formats. 

 

This game should not focus on esports at all because this game is not about 1v1 or 5v5 arena play.  It is about large scale warfare and player politics. 

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The fact that it is different and is not those games is why it can succeed in that market.  Where else will you see entire kingdoms face off?  The battles of larger factions in a voxel world presents mass potential for popularity.   We are creating the following man.  The games got almost 2 years til launch, Recruit the Legions


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The fact that it is different and is not those games is why it can succeed in that market.  Where else will you see entire kingdoms face off?  The battles of larger factions in a voxel world presents mass potential for popularity.   We are creating the following man.  The games got almost 2 years til launch, Recruit the Legions

I appreciate your enthusiasm, the game can be popular and even fun to watch people stream for sure.  It won't ever be an esport though, and to attempt to become one would be a huge and ultimately unrewarding distraction. 

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I still believe that designing the tournament system in some way that it both maintains the desired game play to everyone playing the game and offers a pleasurable viewing experience.  There will be some significantly larger Kingdoms that people would love to watch have some sort of total war.  Don't do what other games are doing.  Pin 50 dudes vs 50 in a castle vs castle match.  All I'm saying is it has serious potential.  It is only a distraction if it does not work. The tournament will exist either way.  If the two can coincide then it seems silly not to try to market that


-The Legion shall forever be reborn

 

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The tournament will exist either way.  If the two can coincide then it seems silly not to try to market that

 

The thing we're all telling you is that they can't coincide.  The kind of gameplay that this game is built around is not a spectator sport.

 

Think for a second: even if you're suggesting that they make a new mode just for eSports...why? Do you not see how making an eSport around a 5v5 match will mess with the overall meta of the game?

 

This is a game about crafting, building, defending, and fighting.  There are a LOT more things to be good at than just team vs team combat.

 

If you make an eSport out of 5v5 though, you're essentially telling everyone that if they don't play towards being good at 5v5 (or 10v10, or 50v50, or anything other than the same gameplay as a campaign) then they are wasting their time.

 

The result? No more crafters, because that's not useful for the eSport.

 

No more builders, not useful.

 

Scouts?  Not useful.

 

 

Or.  Best case scenario.  They make an eSport out of the basic campaign settings.  But that's unwatchable.

 

 

Seriously, it won't work.  Sorry bud.

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So an export tournament could have its own world/rules. The world could last 1-48 hours, be FFA, small team, large team based.

 

Import rules would alway be none.


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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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I don't actually believe "designing around esports" is a good idea for ANY game.

 

The modern notion of esports came to be without anyone specifically designing their game to be MLG compatible or whatever. DOTA wasn't initially designed to be played for spectators. It was designed to be a fun game.

 

If your game lends itself well to esports coverage, then yeah, you should support that.

 

As a developer, however, you should be concentrating on making your game fun and rewarding for players of all skill levels rather than pushing an inordinate amount of time in to fluff systems specifically geared to attract twitch viewers or esports enthusiasts. That's just diluting your budget for something that adds very little to your experience for the vast majority of your customers.

 

Crowfall is an MMO. It's no a small match format game. If people want to set up esports arenas or broadcast on twitch or whatever, sure, support that.

 

Esports weren't built by developers, they were built by communities. It's the developer's job to make a solid game. It's the community's job to do other ancillary non-game projects. When I see companies like Arenanet and Daybreak (formerly SOE) actively doing poorly made socks to their games that makes them worse in hopes of chasing the almighty esports dollar in projects that are already poor fits for that kind of format, it just makes me laugh. It's like someone in marketing said "HOLY CRAP GUYS, PEOPLE WATCH VIDEO GAMES ON TWITCH, WE HAVE TO BE ALL OVER THAT"

 

Some of the best games in existence are extremely boring to watch. Civ5 is a fantastic game that is long, intricate, and nearly impossible to stream because the interesting things happen over such long stretches of time, planning, and execution steps that just aren't fun for the people not actively playing the game. I still can't watch any of my recorded shadowbane demos because they're just not relevant any more not that I'm not studying them in preparation of more fihts with the people in them.

 

You don't need to do jack poorly made socks outside of make a good game and not sue people for broadcasting it. Let the esports community worry about esports and developers worry about developing games. Chasing esports is a waste of time chasing a community that will either adopt you or not based on how watchable your game is. Unwatchable games are not bad games, they're just not games that are fun to watch.


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Esports don't work well with mmorpgs... it's a major distraction for the devs that takes away from the quality of the regular players.  Blizzard deemed it not worth the investment to balance around esports.  GW2 has not had very much success with the popularity of the game as an esport. 

 

Esports are best left to games designed to be esports.  Generally small numbers vs small numbers in some sorta fixed arena. 

 

I agree... Esports is not the correct thing to aim for.

 

But,  I do like the idea of having a player run tournament idea because guilds will already be doing this.  Testing your PVP skills vs your friends and guildmates will be done in whatever place is convenient.  Having a context to do this would be cool.  If that ends up being something that can be set up in an EK.... In a town inside of a campaign... In its own instance or additional space...  we will see. 

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Chess online is a board game, and it's well known.

In Crowfall is the tournament; fun, brief, and a good challenge, sure why not?

Maybe it attract some esport fans, but that's not even important in my opinion.

However, is the system fun and interesting for us who are going to play it - we will see about that.

 

Chess is in fact a difficult game if you compete with elo. So it's not an easy game at all for beginners - so the tournament system need

have some depth for sure.

Edited by Mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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Please no, for the love of god, no esport arena hogwash. The closest thing I could get behind would be small group arena, but they better not follow the GW2 path of having differences in arena and open world skills.

 

Edit: This censor is hogwash, and makes me sound British. Unacceptable

Edited by zoren

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