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seventhbeacon

Why Crowfall Is Not P2W, Not That This Will Stop People From Claiming It

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This speaks for itself.

 

JTODD from the Reddit AMA:

 

 

Q: With a heavy focus on crafting and economy and allowing RMT with VIP tickets...Could you tell me how this wont be pay2win? or pay2advantage? Wont people be able to RMT and have all the materials or anything they want in game? In turn taking that into pvp.

A: Eve has allowed this forever, and it isn't a "pay to win" game. Why not? Because you can't win by paying more money.

If your point is "players shouldn't get ANY items they didn't personally earn, because it's cheating", then the only way to fix that is to turn off trading completely. Guilds give items to guildmates. Those players didn't earn it. Friends twink up their friends. Those players didn't earn it. Players beg. Players bully. Players con. Players trade. Items are CONSTANTLY moved between players. It's a part of the game. If the items were created or collected in the game, by other players, IMO that isn't pay to win. and remember -- we have import rules on every Campaigns. if you REALLY, REALLY hate the idea of facing a player who is using an item they didn't earn, because another player gave or sold it to them -- then stick to the Campaigns that don't allow you to import ANY items. Problem solved. Unless it just offends you. Like I'm offended that a restaurant that I never go to, that serves a type of food I don't like, doesn't serve my favorite beer. In fact, a pretty good argument can be made that a system like this is the opposite of pay to win, because people who CAN'T afford to pay for a subscription can now invest time -- instead of money -- to get the same benefit as the player who pay for a VIP membership. That's not pay to win; it's the opposite.

 

This SHOULD rest the case.  It won't.  But it should.  If that's not good enough for you, then why are you still raising the issue in these forums?  Go find a game that doesn't have a cash shop/PLEX-ish system.


"Darken the moon and conceal the stars; our Light will never be extinguished." - The Tome of the First Flame

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The Lantern Watch - A Crowfall-first guild. Welcome Home. Join us @ http://crowfall.shivtr.com

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He showed some balls putting out a huge post like that against such a loaded question.  Good for him. 

 

I actually made that same argument not too long ago in regards to playing to cover subscription.  How subscription time in games like this is offered to those who use gameplay instead of paying cash.  "Win2Pay" basically.   

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Honestly, one of the most amazing thing is how they offered so many options for PvP and ways to loot. I would say that online shop items can't make you win a game unless you have to purchase some legendary archetype or unlock a promotion through online shop which is ridiculous. I think the limit for online payment shop should be uncustomized armours and weapons (just for the looks even though I don't promote this).

 

So basically as long as they don't offer crafting package or crafted armours and weapons on the web shop, it is definitely not a pay to win game, and yeah I agree if people don't like players applying strategic trading, firstly, this is probably not the game for them. Secondly, CF offered the old style PvP.

 

There shouldn't be any problem with P2W to begin with.


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Chalcitis - A Treasure Hunting Guild, visit Forum Post

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Got dang, I wish I could print this out and personally shove that post down the throat of all the pay 2 win chicken littles. Suck it bitches!


"But above all do not bind the anus all that there is congenial to your vision of paradise staff" - leonelion

 

Current ignore list because these people have no sense of reality or common sense: sheen, unknownxv, doomgrin, willwill, crowmagnonman, santa

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That only addresses RMT for VIP tokens.  That has nothing to do with players paying for in game power like access to classes earlier than others, relic buffs, and god knows what else they'll be adding. 

Edited by sheen

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I love when people in eve buy a ton of plex to get some isk, then decide that the game is like WoW and purples are amazing the kills are amazing.

Edited by Flamenesis

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people that whine about pay to win are usually the biggest dumbest poorest babies anyway

Well I mean if you look at the p2w threads the biggest whiners are actually people whining about people discussing p2w.  So yea...

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I love when people in eve buy a ton of plex to get some isk, then decide that the game is like WoW and purples are amazing the kills are amazing.

 

Nothing like popping some sub 1 million skill point newb in a drake with full officer fit. Best sub cap kill mails IMO.


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That only addresses RMT for VIP tokens.  That has nothing to do with players paying for in game power like access to classes earlier than others, relic buffs, and god knows what else they'll be adding. 

 

So what? Those are minuscule next to the advantages you get by being the right guild, having a friend farm resources for you, or passing items to a new alt. Those things can't be prevented, and exist in every game that has trading.

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That only addresses RMT for VIP tokens.  That has nothing to do with players paying for in game power like access to classes earlier than others, relic buffs, and god knows what else they'll be adding. 

It still applies. 

 

because people who CAN'T afford to pay for a subscription can now invest time

All of that you mentioned can still be achieved with invested time. 

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It still applies. 

All of that you mentioned can still be achieved with invested time. 

And that does not mean a game isn't pay2win.  If a guy invests 1000 dollars and gains enough wealth and power in game that would take 1000 hours to earn with in game play.  That is still pay2win.  And make no mistake, there will be people that invest thousands of dollars to build that into in game wealth. 

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So what? Those are minuscule next to the advantages you get by being the right guild, having a friend farm resources for you, or passing items to a new alt. Those things can't be prevented, and exist in every game that has trading.

And that's a problem here.  Some of you don't realize how to turn small advantages into big ones, but min/maxers do know how.  If someone creates in game advantages through socializing and playing and networking, that's different than pulling out their wallet. 

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And that does not mean a game isn't pay2win.  If a guy invests 1000 dollars and gains enough wealth and power in game that would take 1000 hours to earn with in game play.  That is still pay2win.  And make no mistake, there will be people that invest thousands of dollars to build that into in game wealth. 

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Welcome the hunger

Todd is Love, Todd is Life.

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And that does not mean a game isn't pay2win.  If a guy invests 1000 dollars and gains enough wealth and power in game that would take 1000 hours to earn with in game play.  That is still pay2win.  And make no mistake, there will be people that invest thousands of dollars to build that into in game wealth. 

But those that invest real dollars still have to invest time as well.  Not to mention, they STILL have to not suck.  Campaigns can't be simply bought.  Skill is still a factor.  Honestly, I'd think someone willing to spend thousands of real dollars on this game would be awesome(not that this will happen).  That actually helps everybody. 

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