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Why Crowfall Is Not P2W, Not That This Will Stop People From Claiming It


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This speaks for itself.   JTODD from the Reddit AMA:     This SHOULD rest the case.  It won't.  But it should.  If that's not good enough for you, then why are you still raising the issue in the

Archetype early access = preorders for shadowbane.    It's a 30 day early access to new archetypes for being a VIP.    The traditional model for MMO's would require you to buy the boxed expansion.

Some will pay to lose, take Sheen for example.

Well in my experiences for playing Free-to-Play MMO I can finally say the definition of pay 2 win

 

Pay 2 Win module examples:

  1. Where you can buy Weapon or Armor from cash shop with high stats which cost $40 - $50 each.
  2. Where you can Upgrade your armor or weapon from +1 to +20, only by paying $120 for  the weapon or if you want $240 to have weapon and ONE Piece of armor +20  from cash shop
  3. Where you can buy rare materials in cash shop for $30 for one piece
  4. Where you can buy leveling from 1 to 145 in one click cost $250
  5. Where you have advantage from other players by 50%  price: $350
  6. Where you have an administration power to the entire game and spawn very rare items to your friends that can give them advantage from other players price:  $17500
  7. To complete a quest in PvE in order to play PvP you need to buy an item from cash shop for $65
  8. To be top player in PvP you need "+20 for your full armor pieces" only cost : $720
  9. Success upgrading rate from +7 to +8 is 10% and 90% is fail! if you want 100% success buy 3 prevent fail scrolls ($19.99)
  10. To have every very rare items, end games with max weapon and armor upgrade cost: 3500$
  11. To have  everything in x game with administration power to send x items to friends only cost: $17500

 

Pay 2 win for me where you have those 11 things above and at least 5%+ advantage which "other players CAN"T HAVE"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now to the next thing about Pay 2 Support = P2S

Pay 2 Support which is optional if you can't afford it (module)

  1. You can buy V.I.P ($15 a month) to keep the game alive but it's totally optional to those who can afford supporting the game
  2. cosmetic items in cash shop (which it doesn't give you any advantage)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now to the next thing. "Buy 2 play and spend $0"

Buy 2 Play and spend $0 (module)

  1. You've bought the game for x amount and it's "buy 2 play" then if there's a trading system that you can spend your in-game currency to trade with x person who's going trade "VIP" with your in-game currency then you will get the same benefits as whom spend real money to buy the "V.I.P"
  2. You like a cosmetic item? then you should have in-game currency to trade it with person who offering that cosmetic item and willing to trade cosmetic item with in-game currency that's a bonus for you right? then yes it's good for you and that person too =).

If you want a V.I.P and you only can "trading your in-game currency"  to have "VIP benefits" you will have same benefits as every v.i.p member so yeah!! down to the road you can't call it "pay 2 win" because you get the same benefits just by trading with your in-game currency to have VIP benefits.

 

 

I do hope this clear the talkative about "P2W"  in this forum.

 

Best regards ~Mox

In game power for RMT = p2w. 

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I think the foremost advantage comes from having maximized toons for multiple purposes, of which you can train 3 to their "cap" at the time. This comes straight from the assumption that since the game is class based, some combinations are more effective versus others. It's not uncommon to counter the opponents spec group by changing spec groups that are a natural counter to that. (Then there's having characters maximized for specific purposes, such as a crafter. In such case without the VIP you'd have to forego training of your "combat toon" for the sake of leveling your crafter toon). Then there's the part where a VIP account has a "early access" to new classes, allowing players to start developing such toons before non-vips, and naturally players who don't have VIP have to either cancel out their current characters training in order to favor the training of a new class, whereas a VIP doesn't have to do that. Of course, these can be countered via time. But since you can roll new characters at thrice the speed with VIP, I consider it an advantage. Keeping in mind that factors we cannot yet properly anticipate, such as drastic shifts in metagame, which could force rerolls. Then there's the access to the VIP forums, which may or may not contain information that could be of use. I may have forgotten something, as I'm currently in a business meeting, pretending to be taking notes...

 

This is all from single accounts perspective, purchasing multiple accounts gains the same benefits of multiple characters (although you will not gain access to the early access classes). But personally I wouldn't consider VIP benefits from perspective of comparing them to purchasing multiple accounts. Keep in mind that if you purchase 3 accounts for the sake of VIP, instead of paying 15 euros monthly you'll pay ~100 or more directly.

I am just nickle and diming it.

 

I don't consider the 1 month early access to a class a huge thing when the game have passive training and worlds that resets. Don't see it.

I could see it in SB where we could skills up a character in a couple of days and then spend almost a month ahead of a part of the population.

 

Another disadvantage of VIP would be that I HAVE to pay to keep all my 3 characters training.

Even if I take a break (and RL does that to you sometimes) for a month or two.

With 3 accounts, I would still have 3 characters leveling up, but no cost. It should be cheaper the longer I play.

Attachment to character on the same account plays in also. It becomes harder to delete and restart a character slot if you have paid VIP for it. Its a mental thing, but it is real. 

This is a disadvantage if there are a very shifting meta game

 

I also like the idea, that I can simply buy an account as I feel the need to add more characters.

The time to flesh out a good character seems not to be as time consuming as many think. To fully max one out, maybe, but I am not sure I need every single skill on any character to be able to make a specialized one.

 

Anyways, just thoughts

 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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The only thing that could be considered pay 2 win is the PLEX system, because players can buy PLEX and sell it for gold to buy the best items.

 

HOWEVER

 

players who buy PLEX to sell for gold would just get it from third party sites anyways, so it hardly even matters.

 

The game is not pay 2 win... read the FAQ.

 EOWWuhQ.png 
 

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In game power for RMT = p2w. 

If anyone can't have "RMT" then yes it can be "Pay 2 Win" BUT if everyone is equally and can have "RMT" then it's not P2W.

 

The only thing that could be considered pay 2 win is the PLEX system, because players can buy PLEX and sell it for gold to buy the best items.

 

HOWEVER

 

players who buy PLEX to sell for gold would just get it from third party sites anyways, so it hardly even matters.

 

The game is not pay 2 win... read the FAQ.

People can't read these days.

SkDJEH9.png Discord: message me if you want to stay in touch. Retired CrowFall member.

 

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If anyone can't have "RMT" then yes it can be "Pay 2 Win" BUT if everyone is equally and can have "RMT" then it's not P2W.

 

People can't read these days.

If it has in game power for RMT it is p2w.  A guy could buy a 150,000 dollar sword of doom and trade it for what he perceives to be worth it in game, and the game would still be p2w. 

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If it has in game power for RMT it is p2w.  A guy could buy a 150,000 dollar sword of doom and trade it for what he perceives to be worth it in game, and the game would still be p2w. 

lol there's no "sword at $150k".

SkDJEH9.png Discord: message me if you want to stay in touch. Retired CrowFall member.

 

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lol there's no "sword at $150k".

No but there are other advantages.

The sword could even be rubbish and impossible to win with, but it's still pay2win!

Are the VIP perks rubbish and impossible to win with?

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This is the same arguments made against so called no-lifers.

 

"why should a guy be able to grind to the sword of doom in less time than me, I got work, kids,hobbies,unicorns. He needs to be nerfed down to my level so I can have fun"

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It doesn't matter. Any in-game power for money is pay2win. It doesn't matter how good or bad the power is. 

but if that's power is trade able it's not "pay 2 win" since you will have same benefits by trading your in-game currency to have the same benefits :)

SkDJEH9.png Discord: message me if you want to stay in touch. Retired CrowFall member.

 

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This is the same arguments made against so called no-lifers.

 

"why should a guy be able to grind to the sword of doom in less time than me, I got work, kids,hobbies,unicorns. He needs to be nerfed down to my level so I can have fun"

 

No one can really use that argument, for the most part in this game anyways, seeing as though most of the levelling is from passive skill training. :P

 EOWWuhQ.png 
 

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but if that's power is trade able it's not "pay 2 win" since you will have same benefits by trading your in-game currency to have the same benefits :)

Ok and that just goes back to my example, if they sold a 150k sword of doom but people could trade it in game it would still be p2w. 

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This is the same arguments made against so called no-lifers.

 

"why should a guy be able to grind to the sword of doom in less time than me, I got work, kids,hobbies,unicorns. He needs to be nerfed down to my level so I can have fun"

A person got that power and advantage by playing the game.  Not by using real money which has a different value for different people based on what their circumstances are. 

 

Games should be about proving yourself IN game, not with your wallet. 

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Ok and that just goes back to my example, if they sold a 150k sword of doom but people could trade it in game it would still be p2w. 

Well they are not going sell "Armors or weapons in cash shop" only cosmetics items

 

Definition of cosmetics click here

Cosmetics items should be trade able

 

If and big if they sold a $150k sword should be "soulbound". it might be to get more funds and then once they get same amount of that person who bought the sword.. they can refund him and allow everyone craft the same sword "Tier Legendary." an example.

So it won't be "p2w".

 

Hope that did answer your example.

Edited by Mox

SkDJEH9.png Discord: message me if you want to stay in touch. Retired CrowFall member.

 

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Well they are not going sell "Armors or weapons in cash shop" only cosmetics items

 

Definition of cosmetics click here

Cosmetics items should be trade able

 

If and big if they sold a $150k sword should be "soulbound". it might be to get more funds and then once they get same amount of that person who bought the sword.. they can refund him and allow everyone craft the same sword "Tier Legendary." an example.

So it won't be "p2w".

 

Hope that did answer your example.

They are selling things in the cash shop that can be traded for armors and weapons, provide headstarts on archetypes and who knows what other in game power advantages they can provide. 

 

Hope that helps ya understand. 

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In game power for RMT = p2w. 

 

Pay to win defintion, from a few sources : 

 

Pay to win consist in buying objects to obtain an important/significant advantage in the game over the competitors/oppenents. 

 

Traduit littéralement en payer pour gagner, le pay to win consiste en l'achat d'objets pour avoir un avantage significatif dans le jeu ou par rapport à ses adversaires. À de rares exceptions, tous les jeux free to play comportent une part de pay to win mais elle peut être plus ou moins envahissante. L'argent devient alors un moyen de gagner, dans une mécanique injuste mais addictive. Pourtant, de nombreux jeux l'utilisent et qu'elle soit très légère (dans League Of Legends par exemple) ou très importante (Candy Crush Saga, etc.).

 

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_to_play

 

"The much maligned ‘pay to win’ label in the West, where users can only really advance by handing over money, is pretty much a standard for distribution and financial gain in China."

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/08/13/separating-free-to-play-and-pay-to-win

 

"In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

 

"Pay to Win = the ability to pay real money for in-game competitive edge."

http://www.mmorpg.com/newsroom.cfm/read/34351/The-Daily-Quest-How-Do-You-Define-Pay-to-Win.html

 

So in addition to giving in-game power for RMT, as you stated, a pay-to-win game system seems to require an additional criteria : giving those who pay a significant gameplay advantage over other players who don't pay.

 

Does Crowfall offer a system that allows players who pay to obtain significant gameplay advantages over other players who don't pay? I answer no.

Edited by courant101
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They are selling things in the cash shop that can be traded for armors and weapons, provide headstarts on archetypes and who knows what other in game power advantages they can provide. 

 

Hope that helps ya understand. 

Cosmetics doesn't have stats, there's no source says "there will be armors and weapons in cash shop" maybe if it's only a "SKIN" then that's okay because skins shouldn't have stats about headstarts for archetype i hope that's only for whom backed on KS and it's called pre-order to try the archetype

 

if have a source then link me up.

SkDJEH9.png Discord: message me if you want to stay in touch. Retired CrowFall member.

 

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