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The Meaning Of Guilds.


experta
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Ponder with me for a while if you will. Let's begin with a simple definition for the word. So what's a Guild?

 

guild. an organization of persons with related interests, goals, etc.,

especially one formed for mutual aid or protection. any of various medieval associations,

as of merchants or artisans, organized to maintain standards and to protect the interests of its members,

and that sometimes constituted a local governing body.

 

Before anything else, let's get a few other things out of the way as well. The game is not even in alpha when this is being typed, hell, the kickstarter is not over. People are all ready making Guilds, banding together, getting ready and making promises to face together challenges they don't know with skills and mechanics they have no idea what will do and how they will play out. With of course, the question of how many of those that are here today, will be here in the beta? Or even after that? That being said let's take some things with a grain of salt as we continue forward and dive right in to the deep.

 

It would be unfair to talk factly and in absolutes so I wish to share some of my experience with communities and my thoughts on them. This is purely the way I have seen things. Right then, what's a Guild? A place you join most of the time not because you want to belong or have fun with others, but because it's much easier and rewarding for you to be in one. Which is why you don't settle for whatever Guild, no, you always aim for the best you can get to and either keep working hard or just jump ships until you make it to the top one. It may sound bad but is it really? That's how real life is too, we are ingrained with the mentality to always want more, desire. So rarely do we say enough is enough and just settle for something less then the best. But is that right? Are we a loser for settling for less? The in game benefits are always there if you make it to the big Guilds were everybody wants to be sure. And you can fool yourself that you make friends and such there, amongst other people like you, who got there doing the same thing but how lasting is that? When will it get boring and seem pointless?

 

A reached a wall like that once, I turned around to see the strongest Guild in the game I was playing around me wondering to myself, Who are you people? Why am I here? What's the point? All decisions are being made for me by someone I don't know.........did I think this was fun? No, deep down I knew it wasn't. This was just the easiest and quickest way to be good at a game. So, I quit the guild. Of course no one missed me and I was replaced in 5 minutes, the guy seemed very happy and felt lucky to get my spot. I felt worried thinking to myself, was I like this too once? I spend a long time playing solo, rarely partying and never joining a guild. Eventually, probability plays its roll. Even I who was sick of guilds found a place for myself. For a few weeks I partied and played with some cool people I met online. In terms of progress and such we were losers. We farmed in terrible spots with low efficiancy and we wasted a lot of in game time just sitting around and talking. Eventually, as a joke we made a Guild. One that nobody would notice, but in that small rag tag Guild I had more fun then any day I would be on a specific spot on the map, performing a specific role for some Guild leader who wanted to fill a quota for a score board or start laying off players like spare parts. In my new Guild I was not a drop in the water, I was an individual. And from that point on, once I experienced that, I couldn't go back any more. I couldn't settle for anything less then what I got, and that feeling carried over to other games.

Over the span of dozens of games I saw a lot of Guilds and Communities. All different on the surface but they are the same on the inside. Rules are there to enforce order. I find that to be fundamentally wrong. At least in games. If you need rules to control your guild then you are ruining it yourself. They are not good for anybody but those in power and let's face it it's a popularity contest. If you build a Guild that players really want to be apart in, not just for benefits but for the people and the moments they create, then you don't need rules. If you make a place where they feel like they belong, players will willing put the effort in to help each other and then some. They will do it not because you tell them to, but because they want to. A man choose, a slave obeys. If you don't trust people, then they have no reason to trust you. Guilds doom themselves from the start, because their rules are fruit of their inability to trust themselves. Of course I mean that not in a way where the guild will definatly disband or something no, Just means that it becomes a job, and thats just wrong.

 

Those are some thoughts I had and I can keep going but I think it's more then enough. I see one guild on the forums that is promising some good things and trying to do things how they should be so let's hope they live up to it. Now, why am I here? What's this book I am writing about? No, I am not making a Guild. Those come and go. I am here because I have an ideal. So please allow me to share it with you.

 

I'll be in the Alpha so hopefully I will see as much as I can out of Crowfall. As some of you will recognize my avatar, I am a fan of MGS. And I plan on making my own version of Outer Heaven. If you are going to complain about others not making what you want then make it yourself. I plan not on making a Guild, but making a home in Crowfall. A place where I belong, and a place I will personally welcome with open arms anybody else who wishes to come. If you are tired of guilds or just need a brake, if you want to do some socializing or anything else there will be only one rule and that's to be an individual. Be yourself. A good human doesn't need rules and someone to enforce them, he has his own head and moral compass. And those that do need them? They will do bad things no matter what. Once the game gets in gear I fully plan on having regular get together events with prizes I will personally provide to promote games and friendly competition for those that want it. And a chance for merchants to do some business. When adventure comes knocking hopefully some of us will have a few friends and people to trust. Someone in your friend list is way more reliable in times of need then a guild member you don't know. 

 

I realize it may seem scetchy, laughable and even confusing to some. But it's fine, thats how i see things and thats what I want to do. That is my choice. Even if nobody comes and I stand alone, I will make a home. Devs scare us with words about how this game is not for soloing but you know what? It's fine, I like a challenge. In the months to come and probably after that I will be here. Probably not active on the forums much, thats not my scene. But I will be here. And so will Outer Heaven. Keep that in mind, just a thought. If time goes on and you can not find a place you belong, stop on by. Let's have a chat. Maybe you will find what you want in Outer Heaven too. Maybe you will get to experience that same moment of exceptance and belonging that I once did. As for what side of the scales I will be on? Simple. Balance. Good and Evil are all subjective and merky, they require no thought the path is chosen for you. They are rigid like iron. And thus you can't bend them or they brake. Balance can be bended but never broken. That's why it's more akin to steel and steel beats iron. Balance requires you to make decisions for any situation individually which is why there is a lot more weight and responsability as well as fulfilment. We can be angels today, and demons tomorrow. Balance has the right to choose.

 

In closing, going to Outer Heaven, what does it mean? We govern ourselves and except each other as we are.

 

We have no Guild, We have no rules. We have no philosophy.

We go where we want to, we fight when we want to.

We will be a home for those that want it.

Only lost souls believe that nothing lasts forever.

We last forever, because ideals never die.

We will be called many things, branded differently by others.

But we will fight and do what we want not for others.
But only for ourselves.

 

Welcome to Outer Heaven........Welcome home.

 

 

 

So there you go. Think about it, consider it, laugh about it, mock it. Do as you wish, I need to sleep and endure a drunk headache tomorrow morning uhhhh..... 

 

"Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people. "

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Outer Heaven, in a game?

 

It is a big project, one that will need people of many skills and talents in order to forge it, but if it truly dose form then it will be a sight to see for the ages! If Crowfall is anything like they have said then it is possible in theory and I would love to be side by side to make it work! I am in on this of course, and I do hope to see the game develop as not only a fellow Developer but also as a future player. 

 

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Yeah it's definatly going to be a lot of fun turning this ideal in to a reality. Considering how most guilds here are so tense and bent out of shape with their job like rules, taking themselves too seriously and fighting over players, it would be pretty fun to watch them from the sidelines and chuckling at them while we enjoy the game. I can't wait for Alpha. Hope we get to play soon.

"Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people. "

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Yeah it's definatly going to be a lot of fun turning this ideal in to a reality. Considering how most guilds here are so tense and bent out of shape with their job like rules, taking themselves too seriously and fighting over players, it would be pretty fun to watch them from the sidelines and chuckling at them while we enjoy the game. I can't wait for Alpha. Hope we get to play soon.

 

You play this Title the way you want and leave the serious business to those of us who have been playing against each other for nearly 20 years now.

 

Your initial post's first paragraph smacks of how you don't understand what Legacy Clan vs. Legacy Clan is actually about, let alone the immense wealth of game mechanics and field strategy in a MMO Sanbox title that resides internal to these Legacy Clans. We make game mechanics work for us, not the other way around.

 

Learn2Crush

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What's with the sudden out burst of frustration and negativity? I don't know where you guys came from or why you thought it's a good idea to get defensive and randomly take it out here, but I'd appreciate it if you leave it at that. I don't go to other people's topics to act so disrespectful for no reason, and I would appreciate it if you respect this topic by not doing this again. I will ignore the fact that you downvoted the topic out of spite and bad taste as well. So just have a good sir.

Edited by experta

"Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people. "

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A refreshing approach to creating a community. I always appreciate when somebody picks up the flag and has the enthusiasm to pursue a goal. So a thumb up for that!

 

On the other hand you are using the denigration of others to do that and that makes you no different than the "leader" that replaced you in 5 minutes never to remember you again.

 

I used the word denigration because you are generalizing when it comes to guilds and leaders. Although I am a leader, every time a member chooses to leave my guild, or even stop playing the game, a part of my enthusiasm to lead and enjoy the game leaves me as well. Leaders are there to serve, if they don't do that than they are anything else but leaders. From your story is obvious you have encountered tyrants or despots and I am really sorry for that.

 

One more thing you did, that I do not appreciate positively, is another generalization regarding the player base and their willingness to guild hop just to be on top. It happens that some of my online friends where at the start in guilds less rated than KDS and although we talked in private and they praised KDS they never left that original guild unless it dissolved or when the game was over and they joined us for the next one. To those kind of people your approach is a denigration in my opinion.

 

If you want to build something different than what you mentioned than Don't just name it differently - Do it differently! 

 

"So there you go. Think about it, consider it, laugh about it, mock it. Do as you wish..."  :)

 

/salute

Gen. Prom
Guild Leader of KDS
Recruitment Post - Guild Recruiting and Management - #warstory
Visit us at www.kdsguild.ro

 

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What's with the sudden out burst of frustration and negativity? I don't know where you guys came from or why you thought it's a good idea to get defensive and randomly take it out here, but I'd appreciate it if you leave it at that. I don't go to other people's topics to act so disrespectful for no reason, and I would appreciate it if you respect this topic by not doing this again. I will ignore the fact that you downvoted the topic out of spite and bad taste as well. So just have a good sir.

This will happen. a Lot. This for some is entertainment.

 

Best to not let it get to you. Forums are like swimming with the sharks. They smell new blood and they want to see if they can get a nibble. :D

 

It's all good man. The water is fine. Enjoy it and ignore the sharks ;) They don't hurt. Honest.

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To be fair, there's lots of waxing poetic, it's a bit all over the place, and could use a good edit and clean up.  To convey ideas you need to be clean and precise, not wander around haphazardly.  This doesn't mean a shorter entry, but one that is clear and tries to repeat itself as little as possible.  The message is also contradictory.  You want to form a guild that is based on not forming a guild?  It's like you don't know what you actually want to be, and that's not going to attract many people.

 

I would also remove the last part, that invites people to laugh and mock at you.  Especially since you then take an issue with those who did just that by responding like you have in the comments.

 

Somewhere in the middle of that wall of text, you're basically saying the same thing Lantern Watch does, right down to the "Welcome Home."  However, you've buried the lede.  A rewrite that cuts out the fluff will definitely benefit your recruiting goals, and putting your guild name in the title is also a must.

 

Best of luck.

 

 

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Umm, wow, posts sure piled up while i was away, I will make sure to read through them all and answer in order so please be patient if you are expecting a reply. And thank you for the posts weather they are positive, negative or constructive.

 

 

A refreshing approach to creating a community. I always appreciate when somebody picks up the flag and has the enthusiasm to pursue a goal. So a thumb up for that!

 

On the other hand you are using the denigration of others to do that and that makes you no different than the "leader" that replaced you in 5 minutes never to remember you again.

 

I used the word denigration because you are generalizing when it comes to guilds and leaders. Although I am a leader, every time a member chooses to leave my guild, or even stop playing the game, a part of my enthusiasm to lead and enjoy the game leaves me as well. Leaders are there to serve, if they don't do that than they are anything else but leaders. From your story is obvious you have encountered tyrants or despots and I am really sorry for that.

 

One more thing you did, that I do not appreciate positively, is another generalization regarding the player base and their willingness to guild hop just to be on top. It happens that some of my online friends where at the start in guilds less rated than KDS and although we talked in private and they praised KDS they never left that original guild unless it dissolved or when the game was over and they joined us for the next one. To those kind of people your approach is a denigration in my opinion.

 

If you want to build something different than what you mentioned than Don't just name it differently - Do it differently! 

 

"So there you go. Think about it, consider it, laugh about it, mock it. Do as you wish..."   :)

 

/salute

 

Prom, thank you for your reply. As stated in my original post this is my view on things from personal experience and it would be unfair and out right silly to speak of my opinions as they are a fact and an absolute truth. As such if you feel me denigrating others, even though I did not mention absolutely anyone in perticular because I didn't want to point fingers, then I am doing so from my own experience with no other implication. The entire thing was mentioned with the simple goal being to relate of me having an issue in the past and looking to create a place were the issue will not appear. I am stating my personal experience as motivation for wanting to fix this. And everybody who was scarred by this or wants to ignore it all together is free to join me in creating a place without such negative scenarios that quite frankly in my opinion ruin the game experience in the long run. Thanks for replying.

"Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people. "

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The original author is, in the end, looking to connect with people he enjoys being around. His drunken, rambling post can be summarized to that.

 

I can empathize with that. I can sympathize, too, with being treated like a cog in a machine in a "serious" guild; but let's be clear, I had fun there too, but of a different kind. When I was in a ranked progression guild, I was proud of my achievements and the knowledge I was gaining and sharing with others. And I gained a bit of comradery with those who shared the pain of wipe after wipe, gear run after gear run, mechanic practice runs, and so on.

 

But in the end, it's all about balance. A guild that's just a group of friends relies on those social connections to live; if people move on, the guild collapses. A guild that's just progression will always be more stressful, but it also can be more rewarding, than a purely social guild.

 

It's the guilds that have a good mix of both that tend to stand the test of time.

 

About Walls of Text

 

With regards to the "wall of text" phenomenon - it's not (entirely) the author's fault. It's the way forums are usually designed. With the text the size it is, and the lines the length they are, it's very taxing for the eyes. I almost gave up on this post, but then I turned on Clearly and it was much easier to read.

 

I can't @mention the devs or anything, but I'll make a note of this design quirk in the suggestions forum. I shouldn't have to rely on third-party software to read something.

Formerly Scin Karetyr, a native of Chilastra in Star Wars Galaxies

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This will happen. a Lot. This for some is entertainment.

 

Best to not let it get to you. Forums are like swimming with the sharks. They smell new blood and they want to see if they can get a nibble. :D

 

It's all good man. The water is fine. Enjoy it and ignore the sharks ;) They don't hurt. Honest.

 

Thank you for replying Kell and for the kind words. I work in a gaming support center, plus I've been around the block a lot so I am aware that there are those types of people who just want to measure the size of their "sword" and want to shamelessly advertise themselves. I think that speaks enough for themselves as people without me having to address the issue or taking it personally. Again, thank you for the words and the reply. 

"Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people. "

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Oh boy! The OP must be another one that isn't aware that this a PvPcentric game.

Enjoy your theory guild experta! We all will.

 

Thank you for the reply ozzie mozzie. I am very well aware of the type of game this is being shaped up to be as I have been not just paying close attention to all the releases and interviews, but the creaters themselves and their past work. As previously stated I am not making a guild. And if you do not understand the socializing value of what I am going to make then I question myself just how much about this project do you know. The economy and kingdoms and even campaigns themselves are being crafted with player driven socializing in mind. That does not limit itself to simple PvP gameplay. I assume by your tone you are a hardcore PvP person so we will probably rarely interact if at all. As such I wish you a pleasant game experience and have a nice day.

"Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people. "

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To be fair, there's lots of waxing poetic, it's a bit all over the place, and could use a good edit and clean up.  To convey ideas you need to be clean and precise, not wander around haphazardly.  This doesn't mean a shorter entry, but one that is clear and tries to repeat itself as little as possible.  The message is also contradictory.  You want to form a guild that is based on not forming a guild?  It's like you don't know what you actually want to be, and that's not going to attract many people.

 

I would also remove the last part, that invites people to laugh and mock at you.  Especially since you then take an issue with those who did just that by responding like you have in the comments.

 

Somewhere in the middle of that wall of text, you're basically saying the same thing Lantern Watch does, right down to the "Welcome Home."  However, you've buried the lede.  A rewrite that cuts out the fluff will definitely benefit your recruiting goals, and putting your guild name in the title is also a must.

 

Best of luck.

 

Thank you for your reply seventhbeacon. As previously stated I am not going to make a guild. As for the message itself. I am sorry if you expected a clean cut "job contract" like explanation. If I did that it would defeat the purpose since that is type of things I want to distance myself. The message may seem all over the place and strange to you but I assure you there is a reason for that. It's because it's not a copy and paste carefully crafted over a long period of time. No it was spur of the moment, bottom of my drunk heart late at night kind of deal. That post is all me and by that I mean I just put my heart on my sleave there. Don't read too much in to the meaning of that. As for the Welcome home thing, regardless of who used it first, because I am 100% sure it was not the guild you mentioned, it is not a copyright phrase. I think it suits perfectly for my needs and I have every right to use it as such. Thank you for your reply.   ( P.S. I know I messed up the font dunno why lol )

"Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people. "

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