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Crafting In Ek Vs. Campaigns


dubanka
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Whats the difference?

 

understanding that the EK generally is looking like a fully secure refit space/tradezone...but you'll be limited in what you can bring into a campaign.

 

so that begs the question...how will crafting capabilities/requirements in a campaign differ from your kingdom?

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Rule sets have different import rules. God's Reach has full import rules. Some have no import rules. Everyone will be different.

Not everything in crafting will be for battle gear in the EK. Want a chair, craft it. Need a building, gonna need to craft it. Remember there arn't any NPC vendors, everything is player made.

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From what I understand, you'll be able to craft equipment and whatnot in EKs just the same as you will be able to in Campaigns.  The only things limiting what you can craft in either are what you find in the Campaigns and bring back with you.  And whether or not you have the needed resource types, of course. 

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Rule sets have different import rules. God's Reach has full import rules. Some have no import rules. Everyone will be different.

Not everything in crafting will be for battle gear in the EK. Want a chair, craft it. Need a building, gonna need to craft it. Remember there arn't any NPC vendors, everything is player made.

 

I wouldn't expect even God's reach to let you bring in more than a couple sets of gear and some resources. The game design totally falls apart if you can just import everything you have.

David Sirlin's Balancing Multiplayer Games should be mandatory reading for all gamers.

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I commented on this in an earlier thread:

 

I expect that any serious crafter will at least start their crafting career in Campaign worlds because that is where you will find the richest and most reliable flow of materials. There will be a constant need for crafters in a Campaign world. Most of their work there will be gear repair & building fortifications but that's still some solid practice and a valuable contribution. Any competitive guild will have 'on-staff' crafters to keep their crew combat ready. A crafter is one of the only people I can plausibly see walking into an unknown camp, announcing their skillset & wages, and being hired on the spot. Not often, of course, but plausible. 

CopperStall

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Rule sets have different import rules. God's Reach has full import rules. Some have no import rules. Everyone will be different.

Not everything in crafting will be for battle gear in the EK. Want a chair, craft it. Need a building, gonna need to craft it. Remember there arn't any NPC vendors, everything is player made.

 

I like how different rule sets have the different import rules.  If in every rule set you could import what you crafted in the EK, some of the larger guilds would probably have the advantage every time because they would be able to stock up a lot of critical items.  For the rule sets that have limited importing, this will give a more level playing field.

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Crafting in EK for the most part will just be for looks. Yes you can bring some items with you to Campaign but they will break over a given time....then what?  Your in a Campaign with no gear now. Ok your bring some items with you and bring Mats with you (not all of the Mats make it thorugh the embargo bank or your pack what ever the import will be) your items break and you do not have all the mats to make a new set, now you have to find someone that has the mats then make it. WOW this is getting to be a pain in the butt.......hey you know what if i had a Combat CrafterTM  he could make all this stuff for me and i could just fight...fight ...fight.

 

So Crafting in the Campaigns will be more about winning the Campaign,  and as far as I have read, there is no embargo on bringing your skills to a Campaign, maybe your Archetype but not your skills.

 

 

Combat CrafterTM just means your main role is to craft...but you can live though a fight/ get out of danger, or if backed up by your guild/group you can support in some way.

Edited by thorbeinn
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          Obviously crafters will need to be in the campaigns for upkeep in weapons and fortifications.  Has there been any explanation on how long things take to craft?  Will a really crappy dagger take 2 minutes to craft and a "legendary" catapult take 2 days? If so, it may be wise to craft the valuable item in EK and save it for when you can bring it through to a campagn.  More than likely crafting will be close to instant though, and catapults will not be able to get pulled into EKs, becasue of the limit on items. 

        

          Some people will want to use mediocre items in campaigns due to the cost and decay, others may want to go all out in each campaign, so various types of weapons, armor, equipment will be in demand at all times.  So what should the crafter do?  Embargo his rare mats, craft in the EK(in safety) and bring his finished product through to the next campaign(If allowed) or just craft all in the campaigns.  Also the requirements/reagents for items may be decreased in your EK. 

 

       Sorry to ramble, that's just what I was thinking about.

dG

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To craft an item in an EK you (or a trading partner) will need to:

1) Find resources in the campaign

2) Harvest those resources

3) Place those resources in the Embargo (which is a silly name by the way)

4) Pick which resources come back with you to the EKs

5) Use resources to craft the item

 

To craft an item in a campaign you can skip steps 3 and 4.

 

However to bring an item you crafted back to the EK you'll need to place the item into the Embargo and there's a chance you won't be able to bring it back to teh EKs with you.

 

 

EK Crafting:

+ Bonuses from your buildings and thralls

+ Bonuses from relics and artifacts

+ Assurance that you'll be able to sell that item to other EK's

- Low resources in the EK itself

- Have to get resources back from Embargoes in campaigns

- Might not be able to bring item to a campaign

 

Campaign Crafting:

+ You can use the item in the campaign

+ You have access to all resources from campaign regardless of Embargo shares

+ Bonuses from buildings in the "stronghold"

+ Bonuses from thralls in those biuldings

- Might not be able to bring items back to EK

- Might not be able to bring all money for selling items back to EKs

? Bonuses from EK

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One aspect of EK crafting that I keep thinking about is the crafting machines themselves.  I haven't talked a lot about it since we don't know if the System de Koster is going the same route as SWG.  However, I shall put on my DreamAWish hat and say for the purpose of discussion that crafters will be able to create the actual crafting machines used in the game as opposed to having to "find" them plopped down all over the map.

 

If so, the EK crafter is going to be spending some glorious time upping the stats on their crafting machines and selling the rejects to mere mortal crafters.  Once upper level crafting machines are made then the competition will be stiff to use them as they make a difference in the final product.  If they go with the blueprint angle of crafting then selling blueprints to the upper quality crafting machines will be a nicely profitable business.  SWG blueprints required the exact same resource types (not just copper ore but impossiblefindia nevereverspawnzia copper ore) so selling those resources also turns a profit.

 

Another reason for the upper level machines is because PvP on the EK's has much less risk than on the Campaign worlds and I'm thinking players will gear up with better quality items than they do on the campaigns.

 

Eventually everyone has the great machines until someone gets lucky/crazily skilled and makes one even better.  It was at about year 3 of SWG that the 98% quality machines showed up so there will be some striving and some reaching for a bit.

 

Can't wait to see more about the crafting.

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  • 4 weeks later...

In the campaigns the items you create are useable by your guild to win the current campaign. In the EK you can only create items to be imported to campaigns and there are restrictions on the quantites you can bring with you.

 

Personally if I'm allied with a crafter that does not accompany our group into campaigns I will view them as pretty much useless, and refuse to share any campaign loot with them unless they compensate me the full value of it.

 

If a crafter accompanies us into a campaign and keeps us supplied there then they deserve a cut of the loot just as much as the front line soldiers.

 

I guessing that will be the general sentiment from most people.

Edited by Andius

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I wouldn't expect even God's reach to let you bring in more than a couple sets of gear and some resources. The game design totally falls apart if you can just import everything you have.

There's a pretty big span between "one or two things" and "as much as you can amass."

 

And there's nothing wrong with less restrictive import rules on optional campaigns. If the game MADE you play in a campaign that lets you bring in 1,000 resources at the start, and you didn't have 1,000 resources to bring, then yeah, that would be problematic. And yes, obviously at some point, too much is too much. If you can import infinity things, then there's no necessity to gather (or possibly even craft) inside that campaign. You could actually have a campaign in which there are very, very limited resources, and the nature of the campaign means that it will last a while. Thus, allowing liberal importing up front could be pretty interesting. Also, you can still allow for a certain quantity of things to be imported, while restricting the quality/type of things that can be imported. Maybe you can only import building materials (for a campaign designed to start each side out with some sort of outpost/keep). Maybe you can only import thralls? *shrug*

 

The nature of the game is limited resource competition, but the nature of the game is ALSO campaign module variation.

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There is no real difference. The only thing I can think of that MIGHT be different is that items don't decay in EKs like they do in Campaigns, but this is not confirmed so even that might be the same.

 

However.

 

If you craft items in the EK, odds are you are doing so to either supply for a battle (EK consensual, time-restricted wars confirmed in FAQ), getting ready for a relaxed-import campaign or, most likely, you're playing the economic game OR creating rare items to show off in your EK. The idea of crafting items in a Campaign solely for economic purposes is a bit foolish, seeing as going into a Campaign is not a guarantee that you'll come out with all the "money" (the reason this is in quotes is because having a currency in the game is unconfirmed) you made selling to one or both sides. If you lose, you may only be able to take out 20% of what you put into your Embargo, assuming you've been stocking up at all. So if you are asking which is the better decision for you, that depends on what you want to accomplish. Want to get your name out there quickly? People will remember you from the Campaigns based on what you did for or to them.

 

EKs, however, work rather differently. Want to make people notice your EK? Apparently there is a way to make your EK efficient (as far as people seeing it on a search) by having statues/buildings that give you points for a specific specialty or faction.

 

Reference for EK info: 

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This is just a thought, I see nothing in the FAQ to support it.

Another difference between EK crafting and campaign crafting could be infrastructure.  In your EK, you have your forge, thralls, smelters, etc to produce better equipment.

The world you are fighitng over, you may have to create some of the same infrastructure (and defend it) in order to replace/upgrade equipment, build siege weapons, etc. 

In addition, you probably would not get the same collection of thralls, artifacts and relics that you have to support high level crafting you have in your EK.

 

So at the begining of a campaign, your production would be weak, as the campaign goes on it will get stronger (as the campaign gets harder - interesting balance) but probably not to the quality of your starting personal equipment.

A team without good crafters would be at a disadvantage the longer the campaign continues...

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This is just a thought, I see nothing in the FAQ to support it.

Another difference between EK crafting and campaign crafting could be infrastructure.  In your EK, you have your forge, thralls, smelters, etc to produce better equipment.

The world you are fighitng over, you may have to create some of the same infrastructure (and defend it) in order to replace/upgrade equipment, build siege weapons, etc. 

In addition, you probably would not get the same collection of thralls, artifacts and relics that you have to support high level crafting you have in your EK.

 

So at the begining of a campaign, your production would be weak, as the campaign goes on it will get stronger (as the campaign gets harder - interesting balance) but probably not to the quality of your starting personal equipment.

A team without good crafters would be at a disadvantage the longer the campaign continues...

This is very true as well. After all, if a world has "no import" rules, I would assume that also stretches to Thralls as well as items (I think Thralls are considered items, but I don't know for sure). So there will definitely be a infrastructure needing to be built up before you can even dream of mass-producing lesser weapons and armor, let alone trying to create higher-end items. And yes, being without crafters at the start would be a horrible beginning, seeing as there will be no armor/weapon-selling vendors and I don't know if looting human NPC spawns will give you armor or not. 

Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


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This is very true as well. After all, if a world has "no import" rules, I would assume that also stretches to Thralls as well as items (I think Thralls are considered items, but I don't know for sure).

 

They should be. ACE has said they'll be captured/stored inside some kind of soul gem. So, you won't just go out into the woods, looting thralls, but the only way to possess them (inside a gem) will ultimately reside within inventory slots. Those gems will have to be crafted, too, apparently, and will vary in quality/strength (able to harness more powerful thralls).

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They should be. ACE has said they'll be captured/stored inside some kind of soul gem. So, you won't just go out into the woods, looting thralls, but the only way to possess them (inside a gem) will ultimately reside within inventory slots. Those gems will have to be crafted, too, apparently, and will vary in quality/strength (able to harness more powerful thralls).

Ah OK, thank you :)

Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


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