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thethain

The Rise Of The Banking Guild(S).

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Economy uhh finds a way.

 

Just a thought experiment/conjecture.

 

I know the vision is strongly against a set currency(as in coins that takes no inventory space and is freely traded). But I want to suggest what will happen if this goes through. And keep in mind I'm not saying it's bad. Just that it is likely to happen. Anyone familiar with economic history will know that before a national banks and credit cards, regional banks filled this role.

 

You could give and take certificates of credit from a local bank which might represent a set amount of gold/silver/credit.

 

You should now follow how this relates to a Crowfall world with no currency or means of transferring out resources from campaigns.

 

Once a guild has acquired enough resources and prestige to be known, they will have the ability to act as a bank. And as an intermediary allowing the transfer of resources immediately.

 

How does this work?

 

First we are going to use two guild mates. You have just arrived in a campaign and need equipment. The Blacksmith has been there and has established an operation. You tell him you will give him payment out of your guild resources, an officer confirms you can. Boom. The Smith has now made money outside of the campaign, regardless of the outcome. The other member has now used his previous campaigns to get a leg up on the current one.

 

Now we expand the scenario:

 

 

Now suppose a successful and trusted guild guild (United Crows Credit Union) offers this service to all . UCCU holds resources for any who need the service, and when you a player arrive at a campaign you can negotiate transfer of resources to players for equipment by contacting a member of UCCU. Even beyond equipment, you may trade resources directly, or services. So if you had your piles of gold or blood stone, you sell it to another player in campaign so you don't have to risk getting it to a extract point, or your point is already full. Better to get 75% than 0%. 

Similarly, those on the campaign could use it as a means to pay for a guard, or even to pay off a would be ambush. If the target is truly in it for the money, an escrow could be arranged with the UCCU such that if the ambush didn't attack for x hours the ambusher gets his money secure outside of campaign.

 

At the start of campaigns, getting resources inside might cost much much more of your secured resources as resources are scarce in the campaign, while at the end when extraction coffers are full and players are looking to dump resources (especially those who suspect they will lose) then the situation might be reversed, getting 10 times the campaign resources as you give in secured assets.

UCCU would get a fee or cut from every transaction, and maybe get another for exchanging your resources for the ones desired by your trading partner (You have 10,000 gold, but you trade desires copper). All of this relies on trust in the UCCU. Both in its ability to repay any deposits, and it's ability to conduct transactions when needed.  For this to become really commonplace for even small transactions basically requires api access for players to streamline if not automate the process. However even if that doesn't happen on the small scale, big guilds with big risks will likely use such a scheme to help hedge risks. 

 

Even without a third party banking guild this would be possible as both parties of the transaction are planned to be able to return to Eternal Kingdoms. Meaning they can go home, trade the resources, then return to the campaign, and trade the service, this requires trust from the buyer as opposed to trust of the bank.

 

I reiterate that I am not judging this as being bad, it opens up avenues for player intrigue and interaction. Just that it is possible, and if resources outside of campaigns are useful: it is likely.

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It's an interesting thought process for sure. I have an issue with one of requirements though. You mention that, compared to the campaign, resources will be more plentiful in the EK. Now this might be true down the line, but probably not in the first couple of years.

 

I mean all but the most basic resources can only come from the campaigns, and then there is the embargo export rules. 

 

I highly doubt we will be seeing a flux of resources in the EK for a while. Now that doesn't mean the idea of a banking guild can't work, I just think it might need something else to trade for. Possibly VIP Tickets, which is what all the p2w people are afraid of.


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When I hear banking guilds I more think of guilds that buy a lot of resources then sell them for more. Not this... Too complicated

That isn't banking though... deposits and loans son!

 

It would be really interesting to create a "bank" in game, but given limited space it might end up quite difficult.

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With the idea of inventory loss this topic has come to mind before.  More specifically... if I just lost everything where do I start.  I have not read anything about an in game bank.  Guilds would fill this roll, but I find it hard to believe that there would not be something in the game that would be easier to use, therefore making it not as rewarding for guilds to focused on this compared to other things.

 

Like you said... On a micro scale, this will happen all of the time within guilds, one person promising another stuff out of the campaigns.    

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That isn't banking though... deposits and loans son!

 

It would be really interesting to create a "bank" in game, but given limited space it might end up quite difficult.

 

I am assuming the larger your EK is the larger your potential storage will be.Basically that outside of the campaigns, you have a very large available storage, be it in EK, guild, or personal. That could be completely inaccurate, but every limit I have seen mentioned personal limit and export limits. Not really an EK limit. 

 

Honestly the EK really NEEDS a large amount of storage. Consider the fact that campaigns may run for 6 months. That means you have 6 months before any influx of resources to your EK. So realistically you would need to be able to store a minimum of 3 months of upkeep for a fully developed EK within the EK or it would decay before you could even have a chance to acquire resources.

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Agreed that the EK needs storage, but will it have enough for 1000's of clients?

 

Again, its (obviously) just conjecture. But they have stated that your eternal kingdom will be "smaller than minecraft" and also that they have an absolute minimum of 320 parcels.(Max backers got 160+160 bonus once we hit whichever goal that was). Again you need to be able to cover that maintenance for several months worth in resources. And like I said that is the absolute minimum. Realistically most people would expect storage to be able to hold more than just next months rent. Also worth note that the primary guild doesn't actually need enough storage to store every clients assets (just like real banks don't) they just need to be able to cover the daily transactions and if there is overflow they can make alternate EK/Guilds that merely hold excess resources.

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With all the history of banking scams in Eve Online, nobody with any sense is going to trust a player organization to hold any significant store of value.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Multi-boxing for embargo space = more banking solutions...?

 

The whole idea of multi-boxing for embargo space is pretty frustrating honestly.  It's smart, but it definitely kicks people in the nuts who aren't able or willing to multi-account a single campaign... and honestly it brings rise to the question if they should even single-character restrict campaigns in the first place if people are just going to multi-box to get a competitive edge.


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Master of Useless Darkfall Physics Spells and Originator of Shrapnel/Begone Jumping


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I'm thinking with the way trade and campaigns work, what's more likely than a "banking guild" as you call it, is a trading empire. Think Dutch East India Company.

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When I hear banking guilds I more think of guilds that buy a lot of resources then sell them for more. Not this... Too complicated

Wouldn't say too complicated. If someone or a group wants it to work it can be easily done.

 

With all the history of banking scams in Eve Online, nobody with any sense is going to trust a player organization to hold any significant store of value.

I guess with a young game that's true. In EVE the likes of Chribba and Entity would easily be trusted. Reputation is everything. Sure some abuse it. But its the price you'd have to pay. In these games only depart or invest with what you're willing to lose.


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Wouldn't say too complicated. If someone or a group wants it to work it can be easily done.

 

 

I guess with a young game that's true. In EVE the likes of Chribba and Entity would easily be trusted. Reputation is everything. Sure some abuse it. But its the price you'd have to pay. In these games only depart or invest with what you're willing to lose.

 

 

Right, that was my point on saying when a guild managed to build a reputation. I won't comment on how or if a guild will manage to build trust outside of its members, but if it does, This is a very real need that people will have. One thing that people might not have 100% realized (and I am considering a new topic on it) is the fact that Crowfall's Eternal Kingdom economy is going to be very feast or famine. There is 0 income into the Eternal Kingdom for months at a time. Then when a campaign ends: Suddenly a huge portion of the playerbase has a big stack of resources (and another portion has also an influx if not as large). 

 

When you combine the fact that many people live paycheck to paycheck, how does this translate into their in game resource management? What about if they have 2 or 3 bad campaigns in a row and their "rent is due" for maintenance on their EK. I really do predict there will be a fair market for transferring campaign resources for secured resources, the level of organization is really the only thing that is in question. Maybe it will strictly be friends or guild mates letting their less fortunate borrow resources. But if the playerbase is large enough there will be some who see it as an opportunity to acquire resources and will try to capitalize on it.

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People make banking more complicated that it needs to be.

 

Don't try to fill needs that don't exist.

 

A successful bank will be a MegaGuild with "money" (read: resources) all over the map.  They will be able to give you 100 chickens in one place for the low, low price of 120 chickens on the other side of the map.

 

MegaGuild is a bank, and you just paid 20% interest to avoid risk.

 

Business.


Nazdar

Proud member of The Hunger

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you don't necessarily need currency to have banks.

normal goods work just as fine,actually i plan on a system of storage houses constructed by an alliance of economic guilds that would take on that role.

they would serve as stock market and at the same time as banks who store goods and could use these gods to invest in profitable trades,they just would have to ensure the existence of the stored goods as soon as the owner returns.

 

it would be defientely possible but it needs skilled individuals who actually have the accounting skills needed to pull this off.

but with the use of future-contracts this could be pulled of.

 

you may want to read my threads here:

http://thetradecompany.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2082717?post=10866686#forum_post_10866686

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/5314-creating-a-global-logistics-network/

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