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Please Offer Tab Targeting As An Option


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You don't have "a target" in Crowfall (or similar games). The idea of "a target" is meaningless, so there wouldn't be anybody to highlight. Your attack hits whoever is in that attack's zone of effect and doesn't hit whoever isn't.

 

If you want a function to randomly highlight somebody somewhere in your forward arc... why?

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The Combat FAQ explains how combat will be working in Crowfall.   http://crowfall.com/#/faq/54ca4668bffce6644cb33809   Here's the very first question:   FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS | COMBAT 1. Do

These replies... sigh....     Finally, someone else who actually understands that there's multiple ways to implement tab-targeting and wants to better understand what OP is asking before randomly

False.  Reread the original post:       I bolded the offending line.  While the OP has even tried to sort of clarify his point as just "I want to be able to click on someone to see their health,"

These replies... sigh....

 

So do you want tab-target combat or just tab-targeting. 

 

by tab-targeting I mean to get the usual enemy info bar (health, mana, status buffs/debuffs, Name, Rank, etc.) but the combat is all around actively dodging and landing hits. By the way Tera also had this kind of system. (Don't know if it is still around)

 

With Tab-Targt Combat I mean for example a combat system like Aion or so. Pretty much the standard way. Or take ArcheAge. 

 

To be honest. Tab-Targeting is really nice. Tab Target Combat is pretty boring if you ask me. 

 

Finally, someone else who actually understands that there's multiple ways to implement tab-targeting and wants to better understand what OP is asking before randomly insulting him or shooting his opinions down to get a +1 on their post count without being helpful at all. Thank you sincerely for restoring some faith. Now on to the rest...

 

 

If you're serious, you sir are an idiot. Just throwing that out there.

 

Incredibly rude, there's absolutely no reason to ever call someone asking a questions or offering their own suggestion an idiot. You're giving a poor name to the forum community, and also the game community since there's no other basis for comparison or representation of what the Crowfall community will be like at this point in time. Attitudes like this drive people away, similar to what happened in the Juice gaming community thread the other day. If you don't have anything constructive to reply with and aren't going to add to a discussion, how about you try not posting in that thread. Really hope off-topic and rude comments like this are being issued warnings privately. 

 

If the game you want to play is a game that has tab targeting, then Crowfall is not the game you want to play. ArtCraft has made a very deliberate conscious decision to focus on a specific niche rather than trying to appeal broadly to all gamers, so if you're not in that niche- a niche which specifically includes action combat as part of its core design- then this isn't the game for you.

 

Tab-targeting does not exist exclusively outside of "action combat". Similarly, "action combat" does not = 100% multi-target abilities. Tab-targeting can exist as a method towards selecting a primary target in order to keep an eye on their health, mana, etc., while also providing a target for any (if they exist) single-target abilities. It can also be used to actually specifically "mark" the target in games that allow that (which to my knowledge Crowfall has not made any statement on). None of these change the gameplay from being "action combat", and actually exist in almost every single "action" MMO created to date. 

 

"please introduce this mechanic that will ruin the game for everyone else"

 

.. actually I would prefer to have tab-targeting allowed, with a small perk.. every skill deals 1% of its damage/buff. :D

 

Yeah, because people able to cycle through targets with tab means that the combat itself changes, when 99% of the combat won't rely on having anyone targeted at all. Oh wait... 

 

<_<

Currently Playing - Dirty Bomb, Archeage, & Skyforge


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In the end its up to ACE what their idea with combat is going to be.

 

I highly doubt we will see any form of tab-targetting, since it goes against the combat mechanics (and you could just spam tab and litterally have a 360 degree vision around your char all the time, so fun)

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Do you think it would be appropriate for Call of Duty to have a turn based mode just because someone requested it?

 

I mean, in a world without money, it would be nice if they just offered every variation in possible gameplay as alternatives, they are willing to work on alternatives if the demand is high enough, to a point. That point is pretty much written in practicality, they don't want to make modes which undermine the underlying concept of Crowfall, like dying worlds, and it's fairly impractical to design a retro system into an manual combat game.

 

Depending on how they do it, it might actually be easy.... but honestly, they never expressed tab targeting as an option, so theirs no reason the infrastructure would even be there.

 

Beyond that, I'm wondering if your completely unable to utilize alternate control schemes, or if you have considered the possibility that the problems your concerned about are either welcome challenges, or points to be reconsidered, rather than looking at how the control scheme should be changed so you can assume certain behaviors... Like Focus Fire? Cause people assume that expectation without even contextualizing it...

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Yeah, because people able to cycle through targets with tab means that the combat itself changes, when 99% of the combat won't rely on having anyone targeted at all. Oh wait... 

 

<_<

 

Tab-targeting usually means something very different, what you guys are requesting is the ability to MARK an enemy.

 

Anyhow, I don't like marking as well as stated in one of the other 10 threads about this argument.

Edited by fenrisddevil

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In the end its up to ACE what their idea with combat is going to be.

 

I highly doubt we will see any form of tab-targetting, since it goes against the combat mechanics (and you could just spam tab and litterally have a 360 degree vision around your char all the time, so fun)

 

well there are smart tab target combat systems which also include the characters normal vector (the direction the character is facing) and the camera direction and give out error messages like "you are facing the wrong direction". 

 

The pin-point is - and I think that is something which is clearly wrong - normal tab-target-combat systems have one major flaw and that is that ranged attacks (sometimes - not all game have this) are like homing missiles. I mean if you have a special skill that is supposed to act that way - fine by me. But if every single flame bolt, fire arrow and w.e. hit's me even if I run out of range after the successful cast is not something I favor. 

 

The term "add weight to the attacks" (which is the concept behind the animation locking and such) gets my hopes high that the combat system is actually something with depth. A traditional tab-f1-f2-f3- enemy down system doesn't fit with that system if you look at the ranged attack problematic.  

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Tab-targeting usually means something very different, what you guys are requesting is the ability to MARK an enemy.

 

Anyhow, I don't like marking as well as stated in one of the other 10 threads about this argument.

 

No, tab-targeting means pressing tab to cycle through targets. You're talking about "tab-target combat". He never said anything about changing abilities to be locked-on, and never requested actual combat changes, so it's pretty clear he didn't want that. 

 

He also made it clear several times before you posted that he expressively did not want tab-targeting combat, just tab-targeting (i.e. cycling through opponents, marking people on your screen, etc.). Maybe you just chose to reply to OP without actually reading through the thread though, who knows. 

 

Edit: Also, I want to point this out (it's mentioned in my previous reply, but I'll explain in more depth here since you probably didn't even read the other posts):

 

This, is a target in MMOs,

 

FEvWc2g.jpg

 

When there are multiple enemies (players, AI, etc.) and you can cycle through selections on your target using tab, that is called tab-targeting

 

This, is a marked target in MMOs, 

 

DKBNk4p.jpg

 

Which allows everyone in your party/group to see who you have selected for attack. This allows for quick targeting of your marked target

 

These are not the same, so be careful when you use words. Marking is an entirely separate discussion which I mentioned I did not think they had explicitly talked about, mainly because it's nowhere near a "core" feature, and there's no reason for them to mention it in their Kickstarter. As for targeting, I would find it hard to believe that they won't have that anyways, since in almost every MMO I can even imagine you can, at the very least click-on a target, to have their health/mana/whatever show up. Removing that entirely would create a really strange dynamic of unknown information and promotion of spamming. If you can't tell how low the health is on your enemies or allies without the on-screen healthbars which overlap and blend together in RvR scenarios, I can't imagine strategy being utilized efficiently in combat. 

Edited by stroh

Currently Playing - Dirty Bomb, Archeage, & Skyforge


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Let's be clear; this game won't fail or succeed on Tab target or not.  I am using the "Suggestion Box" forum to make a "SUGGESTION". 

 

Stroh = Awesome

 

Thry = Awesome

 

It helps for us old folks to track down the highlighted enemy in a group of mobs or PVP players.

Edited by lord hammer

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I understand what you're saying Hammer, and It's a decent suggestion I guess, could help in making calls in combat. BUT - I'm not sure it's implementable with the system they're going for. Not sure you can really "highlight" any targets. Of course none of explored the game yet, so I might be wrong. Just saying it might be an option which is simply not viable within the gameplay ACE wishes to achieve.

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Honestly, assuming they actually let us see enemy health, I agree that we should be able to target one person and see their health, and that there should be a keybind to cycle between targets.

 

Mainly because, what's the alternative? If there are health bars, they either have to float em above everyone's heads (chaos in large-scale PvP), or allow us to target, or both. There are obviously other ways to portray 'damage' on enemies, but it's pure conjecture at this point to assume they're going to go with anything other than the standard 'health bar'.

 

 

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This helps for clearly identifying the NPC, MOB, or Player Character I am focusing on. Additionally, the integration of Targets above the targets head for team coordination of FOCUS FIRE should be integrated to easily identify the target that the group or team should be focusing

Respectfully,

I have gathered through my time parusing the suggestion box that players want focusing on a single target to be difficult. The devs have added collision and friendly fire to that affect. Adding something to help focus fire wouldn't make sense to me. Edited by Infynis

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Let's be clear; this game won't fail or succeed on Tab target or not.  I am using the "Suggestion Box" forum to make a "SUGGESTION". 

 

Stroh = Awesome

 

Thry = Awesome

 

It helps for us old folks to track down the highlighted enemy in a group of mobs or PVP players.

It very well could succeed or fail on its combat system.  A lot of people that are looking for something outside of the WoW formula are completely sick of tab target games. 

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This game will have non-targeting combat (what TERA has, Wildstar had a targeting system - a tab targeting system). So you won't be able to tab through targets because the combat isn't going to function in that way. You won't be able to automatically acquire targets in that way. I think it would be nice to aim at someone and pull up their HP bar, buffs/debuffs, etc. with a keybind if you aim properly, and also place a mark above their head along with it. However actually hitting them will require aiming and pulling up their info will require aiming. Nothing here will be automatic. And if they have someone standing in front of them, then yes that should prevent you from pulling up their info because you can't actually see them. It's action combat, so it's all manual. 

 

 

Honestly, assuming they actually let us see enemy health, I agree that we should be able to target one person and see their health, and that there should be a keybind to cycle between targets.

 

Mainly because, what's the alternative? If there are health bars, they either have to float em above everyone's heads (chaos in large-scale PvP), or allow us to target, or both. There are obviously other ways to portray 'damage' on enemies, but it's pure conjecture at this point to assume they're going to go with anything other than the standard 'health bar'.

 

 

Attractive and minimalistic health bars should be in there. Let people turn them on or off, let people set it so they only show up if a person has lost a certain amount of HP, etc. Give players the options at least on how to display it. But I do think you need information like that (and nameplates with name/guild/title, etc. on there). You may find it messy but it's vital information to have and it can very well be designed in a good way so it's not hideous.

Edited by leiloni
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No, tab-targeting means pressing tab to cycle through targets. You're talking about "tab-target combat". He never said anything about changing abilities to be locked-on, and never requested actual combat changes, so it's pretty clear he didn't want that.

 

False.  Reread the original post:

 

 

Please give this serious consideration, as Wildstar and Tera are both extremely marginalized MMO's, for many reasons.  I am not saying they are bad, I am saying they are marginalized.  If the developers are stating that they want to bring old school elements back, then please don't reinvent the wheel on combat.  I like my Tab Target, and want to focus on the game and not some console/ FPS feeling Twitch combat system.  I will of course give the new system an honest try....but request there be an option for us old school MMO players.

 

I bolded the offending line.  While the OP has even tried to sort of clarify his point as just "I want to be able to click on someone to see their health," it's clear in his post that such a feature is not the problem he experienced.  He doesn't want some "FPS feeling Twitch combat system," which is what one might describe an entirely skillshot based combat as.  He complains directly about Wildstar and Tera's combat system, not their ability to allow you to highlight an enemy.

 

That said, sure allow people to click on someone for extra details.  No one is really going to argue about that.  But that's not something that needs a Suggestion box.  That's quite clearly not what OP really meant, no matter how many times he gives you kudos for explaining his points.

 

Edit: 

Forgot to address the original issue directly.

 

This game is based on skill-shots.  That's the plan, that's the goal, that's the pitch.  Changing that vision "just for some people," isn't a simple choice.  And yes, that gameplay may turn people off.  But does that matter?  Will it stop them from getting enough people to succeed?  I doubt it.  And I'd rather be playing with those people who do want skill-shot combat.

 

If you don't like that, don't play.  You don't go into the forums for a newly announced FPS and say "I don't like shooting, can this FPS be an RPG instead?"

Edited by theDoctor
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Tab targeting does not suit the style of this game at all. 

 

For a moment, I was going to write that target highlighting/marking would be ok, but after giving it some thought, I feel that that too does not quite fit with this game.  Keeping track of your opponent (especially in a large-scale, confusing melee) is part of the game.  Crowfall promises to be a very challenging game, and I'm probably not going to be very good at it, but please don't dumb it down with easy-mode tools.

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