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Gradishar

Grad's Take On Healing

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I'm good with not forcing a dedicated healer like the Priest in Shadowbane. It was a pain in a lot of situations trying to get enough of them to field a competent fighting force, but the fact that they existed meant that you had to have them. It will be much better if there are Hybrid healers in the game that can bring both heals and damage to the table so that a player can shift back and forth between the two. That allows for people to spec either way and enjoy the toon regardless of the level of combat. Having played GW2 pretty hardcore, in a real PvP game you need to have some level of in combat heals. It's a combat multiplier and buys players time to shift in and out of combat. It doesn't need to replace combat awareness (and even in Shadowbane you were still dead if you didn't react, regardless of healing), it just needs to be there to augment it.

 

Archeage hit a really nice tone with their healing. The big heals were on a longer cooldown and even had a travel time to the target. Mostly you'd get little bumps here and there, and mana management was pretty key because heals cost quite a bit. Warhammer did some interesting things with healing where the healer might actually lay his heals down by beating on the enemy (build healing resource by dealing damage, then heal it down so it's a consistent cycle). I actually really liked the thought of Shadowbane without priests. It would have really shifted group and spec dynamics. I'm looking forward to seeing what gets done in Crowfall and figuring out what it takes to make the most of it.


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Well I hope you guys are wrong.

I honestly do

 

I would rather play a game where you are FORCED at times to have a sub optimal group because you dont have enough of some specialist class

Than a game where every fight is even, every group combination is equal and everyone is happy all the time

 

Overcoming adversity in all its forms is what builds a gaming community.

The need to counter Specialist classes is one of the things I love in PvP

Healers that can turn a fight are part of that for me.

The need to work as a team to counter that is what led to my strongest longest lasting in game friendships 

I have no ongoing attachments to people in WoW, GW2 or TESO because at all times they were interchangeable with...anyone else

Shame it no longer exists an ANY of the current crop of MMOs.

 

Just my opinion

 

P.S. more than decent healers I want to see serious CC back in a game, this game if possible

CC like EQ enchanters....mmmmmmm

BUt... not going to happen

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I actually really hate the amount of CC in a lot of games these days. Allowing a fight to be won by completely disallowing any action from an enemy is a frustrating way to game. It can be alright if the time to kill is fairly lengthy, but that's usually not the case these days. I'd prefer it not be anything too hefty, but if it's going to be there then support classes should be able to help counter CC.


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I actually really hate the amount of CC in a lot of games these days. Allowing a fight to be won by completely disallowing any action from an enemy is a frustrating way to game. It can be alright if the time to kill is fairly lengthy, but that's usually not the case these days. I'd prefer it not be anything too hefty, but if it's going to be there then support classes should be able to help counter CC.

 

I feel your pain, but I would suggest its not because of the effectiveness of CC you have this problem

Its the fact that modern MMOs felt it was fine to give CC to EVERYONE

 

eg in early WOW real effective CC was in the hands of Mages and Rogues, with warlocks being a special case

Other classes had CC but it was often week, situational and on long cooldowns

 

Now days in WoW every class has ~ the same CC output

All of it is short duration

Relatively short cool down

More of an interrupt than traditional CC (1 min mez etc)

 

Same issue with healing

If you give it to everyone you have to nurf it till its mostly pointless

 

Same result when I mix too many damn colours together... you get erk brown

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Firehose healing doesn't necessarily mean "no heals" - just that it won't be a primary function. I'm sure the support classes will have the occasional heal - especially between fights I would say. The one thing a dedicated healer added was a focus to the battlefield, whereas now you have to concentrate on the entire force which isn't a good or a bad thing without something more to work with.


Deadman; FIGHTER OF THE LIFE MAN, ooooAAAAH AHHHHH! CHAMPION OF THE... Oh. That's not how it goes...

http://www.twitch.tv/alt_delete - Alt Delete Gaming: Lose Ctrl.

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This is a video game, the dead still talk and communicate.

That will work fine if you're able to remain on the battlefield and move with the ebb and flow of events. After you're dead.

It'll work even better if your dead debuffer can still cast exposes for your group damage. Otherwise you're argyle socks on stinky feet.


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I think people are too focused on this, let's just see what the devs are going to do and go from there. We know there's not going to be fire hose healing, but we also know you can specialize your character greatly.

 

Until they release skills with hard numbers who knows what we are in for. I know it's a hot topic and people are concerned, but let's be positive and see where it takes us

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I feel your pain, but I would suggest its not because of the effectiveness of CC you have this problem

Its the fact that modern MMOs felt it was fine to give CC to EVERYONE

 

nah, it's the effectiveness...or rather effectiveness without counters...when it becomes a problem.

 

best example i have is DAOC Midgard Healers when the showed up at release.

 

The could aoe mez an entire battlefield, and there was nothing you could do about it...just wait to die.

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Don't having a dedicated healer makes combat faster, punishes mistakes way harder and in general makes the game more deadly (exactly what Crowfall is trying to achieve).

 

This will prevent long ongoing boring battles and encourages fast strikes which pushes the game in a "more risk = more reward" direction, since you can't just full heal after doing a fatal mistake and "reset" the fight through that.

 

As much as I like being a healer and being the guy that gets all the fame and shame for doing the job right or wrong, for a game that want's to be known as pvp only - a healer slowing things down won't be the right addition.


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,,...You get killed over and over again, that doesn't mean the game is unbalanced - it means that You are a bad player" -JTC

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I've always been a fan of playing dedicated Healers. In every mmo I've played a healing class from everquest to WoW to Neverwinter and the dozens of games I've tried in between (including shadowbane). So I really hope they bring a few dynamic healing archtypes for players to explore. And I don't mean static priests from Shadowbane where you Spam a group heal but the cleric from neverwinter or druid from wow are good examples of fun and enganging styles to heal. I hope the designers realize that there are players who prefer to heal and those players deserve exciting and dynamic play styles.

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Instead of me talking about what other people want, let me say what I would want out of this system.

 

I would like to see there be no "Heal first" archetype.  I don't want to see people out on the battlefield running around doing nothing other than healing up missing health from their allies.  I think this feeds into the "firehose healing" that artificially inflates players HP and makes their decisions less impactful on their survivability.  Instead, I'd like to see a few skills that are spread across a variety of archetypes that can be used to regenerate over time health and maybe even some short health boons.

 

Here are some concepts that better describe what I'd like to see from "support" archetypes.

 

Boons: Things that improve stats

Prots: Buffs, magic shields, protection from curses (these can trigger effects against the enemies)

Hexes/Curses: Negative skills that protect your team

 

This way you can protect HP from team mates, instead of trying to replenish it after they've put themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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I have come to quit hoping for my pure healer... So if i must add my 1.75 cents ( dam tax season ) it would be..... 

 

Warrior priest/Dok's from warhammer without the abilty to out of combat regen would be ok with me. 

Hertics/friars and valks in Daoc would be ok with me as well. 

Bards/paladins with chants/songs that regen over time but can be always so would be good.

 

What i dont want is ever class to be able to heal, and kite and run around till they are at full health and solo all over the place because everyone can heal and its just a wracking orgy of soloers that kite, and heal... 

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Don't having a dedicated healer makes combat faster, punishes mistakes way harder and in general makes the game more deadly (exactly what Crowfall is trying to achieve).

 

This will prevent long ongoing boring battles and encourages fast strikes which pushes the game in a "more risk = more reward" direction, since you can't just full heal after doing a fatal mistake and "reset" the fight through that.

 

As much as I like being a healer and being the guy that gets all the fame and shame for doing the job right or wrong, for a game that want's to be known as pvp only - a healer slowing things down won't be the right addition.

 

 

Why is it just a given now that faster, "deadlier" combat is better? The faster and deadlier combat is, the less strategy gets employed; it's all about hitting first or having more people instead. Use a spec that opens with lots of AE and CC, make sure you hit first, and the battle is over before the other side ever has a chance to counter.

 

I can only speak for myself, but the best battles I've ever had were long battles between relatively even sides that ebbed and flowed until one side tried some daring tactic. People say they want good, even pvp, then complain that it took too long; I don't get it. Would you rather spend that time running back to the battlefield after your whole side got wiped in 10 seconds?

 

I don't see how they can hope to combine risk with fast combat. People will just feel cheated, the purpose is to make ppl feel heroic I thought.

 

To me, the main purpose of healing in pvp MMOs was to minimize AE damage, no amount of healing will negate good focused fire in games I've played. Take healing and strong CC out of the equation and the battles are just spreadsheets with the side doing more damage being the victor. I see people saying bad healing options will hurt zergs, my experience is the exact opposite for just that reason.

Edited by thorogood

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I can only speak for myself, but the best battles I've ever had were long battles between relatively even sides that ebbed and flowed until one side tried some daring tactic. People say they want good, even pvp, then complain that it took too long; I don't get it. Would you rather spend that time running back to the battlefield after your whole side got wiped in 10 seconds?

 

 

I Agree, i remember camping mid mile gate one time and the battle ranged for over 2 hours ( not just because of heals ) its a fight that i can look back on fondly and enjoy after a long battle and losing you dont have any excuses you gave it your all, they did the same.. with quick battles is Open with that 2h Dps on a clothie then /assist the rest.

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Well I hope you guys are wrong.

I honestly do

 

I would rather play a game where you are FORCED at times to have a sub optimal group because you dont have enough of some specialist class

Than a game where every fight is even, every group combination is equal and everyone is happy all the time

 

Overcoming adversity in all its forms is what builds a gaming community.

The need to counter Specialist classes is one of the things I love in PvP

Healers that can turn a fight are part of that for me.

The need to work as a team to counter that is what led to my strongest longest lasting in game friendships 

I have no ongoing attachments to people in WoW, GW2 or TESO because at all times they were interchangeable with...anyone else

Shame it no longer exists an ANY of the current crop of MMOs.

 

Just my opinion

 

P.S. more than decent healers I want to see serious CC back in a game, this game if possible

CC like EQ enchanters....mmmmmmm

BUt... not going to happen

 

I totally second this. I love it when people think outside the box and come up with more creative solutions because they were sub-optimal in the face of adversity. That's the kind of thing that will separate the whiskey drinkers from the milk drinkers. That pretty much is emergent in itself and it stops the cookie-cutter must-win-optimally-with-my-surefire-build meta.  custard the meta.


The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
Read more at brainyquote.com/search_results.html#KTJ4dHyeiltlKOTM.99

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