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Kobold Princess

Competitive Attitudes, Player-Policing, And "toxicity"

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In response to two very long posts (Here and Here) by Gordon in regards to player attitudes, competition, and policing; I wanted to spawn a thread to discuss the general subject of non-competitive attitudes, trash talking, harassment and any other concepts that apply to the game, and ways in which players can be given tools in which to combat them. (Or, if such things even need to be combated in the first place.)
 

The trap of 'Toxic'

 
Before I start, I want to cover the word 'Toxic', which I've chosen to put front and center, because it's an inevitable derail.
 
Trash-talking on the forums, harsh criticism of people's ideas, or controversial political opinions are all things that someone might call 'Toxic'. Things such as systematically harassing individual players, bringing ingame rivalries out of the game, or otherwise taking action with the express intent of ruining someone else's gameplay experience to the degree that they quit the game are others.
 
The problem is that there is a huge difference between me making a post calling someone a terrible poster, and finding their facebook, and posting pictures in a  'Let's all make fun of people's dumb faces' thread in off-topic. Both of which are, depending on who you ask 'Toxic'.
 
'Toxic' has become a catch-all word for any sort of behavior that the individual using the term finds distasteful, or bad for the community that that individual would like to be part of. I would like to therefore request that if people choose to use the word, they use it carefully, and stop to think if they could be using a more descriptive term.
 

Why Should I Care?

 

This is an absolutely valid question. Why care? Why should I, as a player, want to enforce my view on how the game should be played on other people? (Which, let's not kid ourselves, is what's involved here).
 
Well, to start, many of the activities that someone might want to police are bad for the game. They drive away existing players, make it more difficult to attract new players, and otherwise undermine growth. Whether or not you as an individual care about these things is up to you, but it's self-explanatory why we as a community should care.
 

What To Do About It?

 

Here's the meat of the subject. What do we do about it? (Assuming we do anything) Well, that's what the thread is for. Just as a start, I'll go over some high-level systems that are often used in response to this sort of activity.

  • Moderation

By far the most common solution. Individuals, either volunteer or paid by the company, are imbued with the power to punish other players. This can run from muting, suspensions, item deletion, right up to banning. We all know what it looks like, and we all know this game is probably going to have some form of it.

  • Reputation Systems

Certain activities in the game cause players to accrue some sort of 'reputation'. Either there is a form of Karma, and killing people who the game chooses to bestow 'safety' causes negative Karma, or particular groups have forms of Reputation, and taking particular actions that are seen as negative against those groups causes a Reputation hit. Finally, some games also give the option to actively change the reputation of another player, perhaps with a form of 'soft' reporting mechanism. Sometimes, these systems tie into:

  • Justice Systems

These are systems in which players, either by force of another player, or due to automatic systems (usually related to Reputation/Karms/Etc) are 'brought to justice'. This can run the gamut, from a bounty hunting system which allows an individual person to pay anyone who brings another player to justice, to a restraint system, which allows people to restrain or forcibly move other players, to simulated courtrooms, and forms of 'jail', which is usually a form of time-out in which the player is forced to spend time online without playing, or playing in an isolated sandbox.


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Toxic players provide a valuable service by being a whole lot more fun to kill in-game.

Toxic players provide a valuable service of bedding our moms, if you know what I mean. Shout-out to russian MOBA players, hehe.

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The sad truth is toxic players come with the hardcore PvP scene.

 

Not only does this happen, but it exists among various types of gamers.  Unfortunately, it can't be prevented, simply because the more popular a game becomes, the more toxic the community can become.  League of Legends, for example, is known for having one of the most toxic communities of all time in gaming.  However, it comes with the territory...  In early WoW, being a toxic player got you server shunned, although that sort of thing has become outdated.  In my opinion, with a game like this, if someone becomes toxic then it'll mostly be limited to the forums since it's largely a PvP based game with an emphasis on crafting for progression.  If you're toxic in game then more likely than not you'll simply be killed if you're toxic in a campaign or people wont want you in their EK since you've brought bad reputation to them.  Although, the amazing thing about this game is that there is balance, order, and chaos, so perhaps the more toxic players will migrate towards chaos and etc.  The true beauty about a game like this lies in the fact that toxicity can be alleviated by the community in the sense that wars can be waged, reputation can be gained or lost, and what have you.  I think people have become used to artificial restrictions, but this game might eventually be able to allow the freedom for guilds and players to actually battle players that are "toxic".  However, it should be noted that toxicity is often synonymous with competitiveness, and often times someone actually needs to have a "toxic" mentality to push themselves forward and be a true champion.

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...::: steps away from Thread slowly :::...

You're just not good enough. We need a player police force, justice systems, judges, Dog the bounty hunter, and prisons.


☆ We are in a positive posting drought, so just post. Be the change you want the forums to be. Go wild. Just follow your positive posting star. ☆
☆:*´¨`*:.•.¸¸.•´¯`•.♥.•´¯`•.¸¸.•..:*´¨`*:.☆

(¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯) Member of the Pro-ACE Club (¯`’•.¸*♫♪♥(✿◠‿◠)♥♫♪*¸.•’´¯)

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U1KRB9E.jpg

 

People getting themselves worked up, and then working up other people over problems that aren't even problems yet is toxic to a community.

If you need an example, See Tumblr or even just listen to the anti-P2W idealist zealots (who are here in this forum even now trying to crap things up) who cry P2W every time anybody dares to spend more money than they want to in a game.


◄ Jaguar / Tasho ▬ Knights of Glory and Beer ►


Master of Useless Darkfall Physics Spells and Originator of Shrapnel/Begone Jumping


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  • Moderation
  • Reputation Systems
  • Justice Systems
  • Yes
  • No
  • No

We don't need arbitrary Reputation and "Justice" systems in a PvP-centric MMO.  The purpose of the game is to REWARD players for successfully killing each other.  Those systems are specifically designed to punish people for doing what they're supposed to do in the game: Kill people and take their stuff for their own purposes.  The only reputation system that's needed involves a pencil, piece of paper, and a group of buddies.  The only justice system that's needed is hunting down the guy that killed you and cutting yourself a nice slice of vengeance. 

 

All that said, yeah, people poorly made socks talking in game shouldn't be much of a problem.  Real life threats and the like as well as taking things outside of the bounds of the game, that's when it becomes a problem.  I, personally, just laugh at anybody who sends me hate tells after I've killed them and just respond with a simple response like "Umad bro?" "Trololol" or "Q.Q moar."  Anybody older than 14 years old does the same.  And if you're younger than that, then you shouldn't be playing a game like this.  Your widdle fewwingls huwt because someone trash talked you in an online game?  Welcome to the internet.  Grow up or get out.  Somebody takes things too far and steps out of the bounds of the game?  Report them to the moderators for it and they'll take appropriate action.  Meanwhile you just sit back and laugh at their punishment. 

 

TL;DR Grow up, have fun with the game, and ignore the toxic unpleasant people.  They're only as important as you make them. 

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I love the tone of this forum when it comes to responding to even a glimpse of care bearism. I'm so tired of the seemingly adamant resfusal to simply ignore comments that one might feel are toxic. I don't know who is less mature, the person trash talking in general chat, or the one that takes it too seriously and threatens to rage quit over it.

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  • Reputation Systems

Certain activities in the game cause players to accrue some sort of 'reputation'. Either there is a form of Karma, and killing people who the game chooses to bestow 'safety' causes negative Karma, or particular groups have forms of Reputation, and taking particular actions that are seen as negative against those groups causes a Reputation hit. Finally, some games also give the option to actively change the reputation of another player, perhaps with a form of 'soft' reporting mechanism. Sometimes, these systems tie into:

 

Won't work because reputation system is too open to be abused.

  • Justice Systems

These are systems in which players, either by force of another player, or due to automatic systems (usually related to Reputation/Karms/Etc) are 'brought to justice'. This can run the gamut, from a bounty hunting system which allows an individual person to pay anyone who brings another player to justice, to a restraint system, which allows people to restrain or forcibly move other players, to simulated courtrooms, and forms of 'jail', which is usually a form of time-out in which the player is forced to spend time online without playing, or playing in an isolated sandbox.

 

Hopefully Crowfall will have API.


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Player reputations and communication reports about peoples behavior and danger level will take care of most issues in game. The Big Bad Ban Hammer will take care of the rest who take things too far, like threats of violence and things like that.

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