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Competitive Attitudes, Player-Policing, And "toxicity"


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This is one of the problems I have with communicating on this forum. It's like the lingo has changed to some extreme between gaming generations. When I think griefing... I think kill stealing, running mob trains on PVEers, Friendly Fire, spawn camping, and possibly exploiting safezone mechanics. So when I start posting my input, other players assume some crazy sexual harassment player Gank or what-have-you. Is what it is, though.

I second that, for me griefing means having fun by in game means at the expense of my surrounding. All these nowadays WoW-raised so called PvP players are using the wrong terminology and need to be taught a lesson.

Edited by rajah
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...::: steps away from Thread slowly :::...

If you get offended because someone called you things in a videogame, quit the internet.

In response to two very long posts (Here and Here) by Gordon in regards to player attitudes, competition, and policing; I wanted to spawn a thread to discuss the general subject of non-competitive att

Interesting to read the contents of this thread. Here is an interesting comparison:

 

-  We want people to treat each other with respect. And preferably we want them to do this by choice because they see the inherent value of doing so.

-  Knowing that some people will never do this we create the police to force people to do a thing that will only really be of lasting value if done by choice.

-  In doing so you create a whole range of people who just enjoy finding ways to circumvent this police either just because its fun or because there is something to gained ... even if its just the aforementioned fun. So the offenders create a Police who in turn create the offenders and they both live happily ever after.

 

In conclusion you will find that you cannot legislate good behaviour. And the reality is that in a PVP based game the definition of good behaviour only becomes more vague making it even harder to do a thing, i.e legislate, that could not be done properly in the first place.

 

So do nothing? No, Its fine to put in place some of the suggestions above (/report, self policing etc etc) but in reality the best thing is to roleplay the experience of being ganked if and when it happens. I generally add them to my friend's list as one of my archenemies .... you need those. They may or may not play better than me but I will find them in a compromising situation at some point. Simply put .... my time will come.

 

Its a game and perhaps not everyone has the emotionally maturity to deal with difficult people with lots of time on their hands. I don't take it all too seriously (not to say i don't love games cos i do) ..... People will gank, bot and break mechanics .... some of it will be addressed and some of it maybe not. Nothing that ACE will do can change that .. at least not without violating the very principles the game is built upon. Peace out peps.

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^this

 

Good examples builds a community as much as bad examples make it 'toxic'. Deal with what you get but try to be above 'wrongs' you encounter yourself.

 

I agree ..... its the definition of wrong that creates the difficult. It almost becomes a philosophical debate. In theory any behaviour that the game itself, by design intended or unintended, maybe classified as right by certain people. Not saying that it is but you do need to take a middle approach sometimes. No surprise that i favour balance then.

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One thing to always remember is.........how people act in the forums, what they say to each other, how they say it etc.... makes enemies in the game, and if they happen to be the one talking smack all the time in the forums to people, then at that point they have just started a greiving process for themselves in game! The same people they talked smack to will probably actively go looking for them in the game to kill them over and over! :) and at that point those people have no one to blame for greiving, but themselves!

 

ok im done with my civic duty now ;):ph34r:

Edited by blaquerogue

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It doesnt look like a fire breathing dragon!?

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One thing to always remember is.........how people act in the forums, what they say to each other, how they say it etc.... makes enemies in the game, and if they happen to be the one talking smack all the time in the forums to people, then at that point they have just started a greiving process for themselves in game! The same people they talked smack to will probably actively go looking for them in the game to kill them over and over! :) and at that point those people have no one to blame for greiving, but themselves!

 

ok im done with my civic duty now ;):ph34r:

One thing to remember is, that you can name your character whatever the custard you want in the game.

 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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One thing to remember is, that you can name your character whatever the custard you want in the game.

 

Hopefully people are wise enough not to get baited by random posters that don't supply name/guild. A bunch of anons talking trash to one another on a forum seems rather pointless (looks around).

 


 

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I think we're envisioning two different situations here because I'm pretty sure nobody who types things like "lol try that again u [again, I don't know how offensive we can go before the mods get involved]" is playing that kind of mind game. Almost all the things I'd consider reportable, and what I was talking about in my first post, come off the back end of a player death when they're trying to explain why it wasn't their fault that they died after walking into a 1v4, but rather the fault of their [expletives] team.

 

I mean if you're into being insulted by strangers on the internet then that's fine I guess, I just don't see the point in not reporting people if they're using personal attacks rather than bog-standard banter. I'd rather not have chatlogs getting filled with the semi-incoherent rage of upset, dead players.

And I think right there is what separates the hardcore pvpers from the carebears.  Those of us that have played in real pvp games dont care if we die.  We replay the fight over in our minds and see if we could have done something different, or if the odds were such that there was nothing we could do, or perhaps if we tweaked this part of our toon we could do better.  We dont throw a hissy fit because we know that being killed is as much a part of the game as killing.

 

Those other guys just take it personally. OMG, I got killed! My real life is over! That #%$# cheated!!!!!!!  He hax!! 

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And I think right there is what separates the hardcore pvpers from the gonzos.  Those of us that have played in real pvp games dont care if we die.  We replay the fight over in our minds and see if we could have done something different, or if the odds were such that there was nothing we could do, or perhaps if we tweaked this part of our toon we could do better.  We dont throw a hissy fit because we know that being killed is as much a part of the game as killing.

 

Those other guys just take it personally. OMG, I got killed! My real life is over! That #%$# cheated!!!!!!!  He hax!! 

Right, hardcore duder never sends nasty tells when he dies lol ok. They are more prone to such behavior IMO because its like "how dare you kill me i am pvper godd of this game i cant die!!1one!!1"

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lol, Well, I am by no means a pvp god, but I can hold my own and I have never spoken(chatted) an ill word after being killed.  The worst thing I can recall would be a "oooh, you are so awesome! You can kill someone 40 levels under you." 

Most times I will compliment them for a good fight.  And believe it or not, I usually receive a compliment in return.

 

Another thought has occurred to me, in SB, there was seldom much ganking or griefing(by any of the definitions) at server up.  That type of behavior became more common after everyone had their cities up and running.  People were too busy building and farming for our toons and city.

CF will be busy all the time, no stagnation.  Build your character, build your fortress, craft, farm, mine, attack others fortress, mines, trains. Then the world ends. 

Will there be any time to be a toxic pest?

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Right, hardcore duder never sends nasty tells when he dies lol ok. They are more prone to such behavior IMO because its like "how dare you kill me i am pvper godd of this game i cant die!!1one!!1"

 

I typically don't say anything if I die or kill. Just keep going about my business. I think silence makes them think more than smack talk. One type will wait to hear good fight and the other type will wait to hear smack talk. They shall get neither. If they send good fight, i'll send it back. If they send smack talk, I'll send none back. Because it makes them angrier.

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We will see how it plays out. I know games like League of Legends, I never had any desire to play, simply because any time I tried it out, I obviously wouldn't know what I was doing, and would just get yelled at. Too much meta, and not enough game for me. I play for fun!

 

Also, with all the different rulesets, I think the most competitive players will be in Dregs/Shadow. If you/your guild is toxic/douchebags/mean/griefer/whatever, you are going to get crushed so badly, it won't even be funny. I imagine there is a going to be a lot of politics in these campaigns, if you don't play that game well, I doubt you are going to fare well in the end. AKA, ganking players at the campaign entrance is going to get the entire server against you, for which you will be destroyed, no matter the guild, skill or players you have.

 

Again, we shall see how it all works, I am hopefully not looking forward to more depth than the game will provide :P

Edited by MattVid

Vidrak - Member of


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You act like this is most people's first rodeo. It's not like the smack talkers haven't had a target on their back before. The majority of this community are really old gamers, been there done that.

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I think a lot of the behaviors people call "Toxic" are in fact "Acidic". If there is too much, then yes the community becomes terrible and damaging.

 

It seems to me that in today's obsession with "safe spaces", nobody wants to go out into the world anymore. People not sharing your point of view or respecting your personal traumas isn't cruelty, it's just life. Whatever is enough to keep the respectably behaving people around, and keep them vocal, is enough.

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 The majority of this community are really old gamers, been there done that.

Which is why it gets really really weird sometimes. In SB, a group of us got bored and PK'd a group of sorta/kinda allies in Paundril Plains while they were farming. Well, we knew we'd catch crap for it so we told our guild leader. He told us that we should expect one of them in our vent any second now so when they come and start talking, let them vent and do not say a word.  

 

Well, this guy hops in our channel and just starts flipping out with every possible expletive he can think of, mixed with a dozen different ways to say PK in an official sounding way (unsanctioned hit, violation of engagement, "politics-be-damned mass assassination", etc) and constant reference to 'PP trolls". From his voice, you could tell he was at least in his 30s if not older.

 

Now, there definitely was a layer of immaturity to our crowd, because you could easily hear the tiny slips of sound as everyone tried their damnedest to not laugh their asses off the more he went on. When he was done, it was a moment of silence for about 10 seconds until Asmo said, in a quiet and serious tone, "pee pee trolls" and we all burst out laughing, which did NOT help things any. 

 

So, while we've all been there and done that, every once in a while one of us completely snaps and we relish it much in the same way as when you convince your best friend to do something stupid or dangerous and he actually goes and does it. I think a lot of us simply like pushing the buttons of our peers. :) 

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Yeah, people are still confusing "hardcore" with "asshat". Simply dying in PvP is only offensive to the very very end of the bell curve. Like, almost no one. You can be an amazing "hardcore" PvP'er and NOT be an asshat. Being an asshat to others is not the default "hardcore" behavior. People add that all on their own.

 

And I think right there is what separates the hardcore pvpers from the gonzos.  Those of us that have played in real pvp games dont care if we die.  We replay the fight over in our minds and see if we could have done something different, or if the odds were such that there was nothing we could do, or perhaps if we tweaked this part of our toon we could do better.  We dont throw a hissy fit because we know that being killed is as much a part of the game as killing.

 

Those other guys just take it personally. OMG, I got killed! My real life is over! That #%$# cheated!!!!!!!  He hax!! 

eEvERiW.jpg

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You act like this is most people's first rodeo. It's not like the smack talkers haven't had a target on their back before. The majority of this community are really old gamers, been there done that.

Yea, unfortunately, the majority also haven't played a modern game so they have no idea what the gaming culture is like now. 

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I think people are confusing the occasional blurt-out or meltdown in-game to a game-and-forum wide attitude. The former has always existed in every game, the latter is something that we should be talking about.

 

When the game and forums becomes so hostile and filled with negativity (sincere or trolled) that it's just unbearable to partake in any meta or discussion about the game in an official context, that's what we should avoid.

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One thing to remember is, that you can name your character whatever the custard you want in the game.

yeah but you can easily find out who is who by some simple research. I may be friends with one of thier friends  :)

Edited by blaquerogue

Famous last words..................

 

It doesnt look like a fire breathing dragon!?

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Right, hardcore duder never sends nasty tells when he dies lol ok. They are more prone to such behavior IMO because its like "how dare you kill me i am pvper godd of this game i cant die!!1one!!1"

Apparently if they died they were mistaken on  being PVP gods! :) I just clear a spot on the shelf for those type people! :) Personally i have played the Pk and the PK Hunter, ive never talked trash when i got killed! i just got better and sought revenge :) thats just part of PVP! Somone will eventually kill you! Deal with it and get revenge!

Edited by blaquerogue

Famous last words..................

 

It doesnt look like a fire breathing dragon!?

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