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TullyAckland

Player Experience & Self-Policing Suggestion Thread

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Scamming items? Fair game. Scamming accounts? unacceptable (even if they were stupid enough to share account details). 

 

What about gaining those items, by being able to log into their accounts, but leaving their account intact, aka not changing passwords or anything.

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Can we go back to griefing and harassment for a sec?

 

What's the stance on scamming? From small cases of not trading what I was supposed to, up to getting someone's account because they handed me details and I empty their banks, EKs and so on...

But all with legit means, no exploit, hacks etc.

 

Will there be a "stupidity protection"?

Because let's be honest. If you get scammed, it's most likely because you didn't use your brain! (I know, I got scammed as well back in the day ;) )

I am pretty hard core and I feel this is wrong on both sides.  The person should not have gave you their account and you just crossed the line.  I know this stuff will happen but you have to draw the line somewhere.

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Honestly what might be better is sharing stats about campaigns post mortem with an API. That way any campaign relevant information isn't pertinent as that campaign is over. Just hide the players names and things like that and it means that no one has info on who did what in the campaign, just on what the most successful things were in that particular campaign. I'd hate to see that become word of law like it is for MOBA's but I would still like to have some sort of stats to look at, just not of specific individuals.

Edited by RemlapVII

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I am pretty hard core and I feel this is wrong on both sides.  The person should not have gave you their account and you just crossed the line.  I know this stuff will happen but you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

I'm just asking, because I'm never sure where the line is drawn. I've scammed plenty in multiple games. It's a really thrilling experience :)

And I've taken items from other people's accounts, including whole guild banks.

 

But I wouldn't cross the line of stealing a whole account. Or delete characters... that's just malicious and I personally gain nothing from it.

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I am pretty hard core and I feel this is wrong on both sides.  The person should not have gave you their account and you just crossed the line.  I know this stuff will happen but you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

But the person was being a total nooblet tho.

surely a hardcore player would take advantage of this to further our goal towards victory?

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What about gaining those items, by being able to log into their accounts, but leaving their account intact, aka not changing passwords or anything.

 

Logging into another persons account is against terms of service. This is a genuine CS investigation case, as ultimately you would be able to access personal details about the user (their listed billing address for example)... That's a possible security breach and will be treated as such. 

 

An account is listed to an individual owner. No other access is permitted. 


Tully Ackland

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc. 

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

[Rules of Conduct]

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Scamming items? Fair game. Scamming accounts? unacceptable (even if they were stupid enough to share account details). 

Even W101 has a "rule"  that places on the player's responsibility to keep their account info secret  " Give out your info and lose you wizard forever".   Simply put but effective.

Edited by ellie

Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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Can we go back to griefing and harassment for a sec?

 

What's the stance on scamming? From small cases of not trading what I was supposed to, up to getting someone's account because they handed me details and I empty their banks, EKs and so on...

But all with legit means, no exploit, hacks etc.

 

Will there be a "stupidity protection"?

Because let's be honest. If you get scammed, it's most likely because you didn't use your brain! (I know, I got scammed as well back in the day ;) )

 

 

I'm all for "stupidity tax"  rather than "protect the dummies".

 

It's one of those great things how video games can teach people actually valuable life lessons. Which is actually far more nuanced than 'don't trust anyone'.

 

Same goes for opening up the data to the players. We all know how things can pan out if you make them public, it changes how people behave, judge themselves and each other. Meritocracy is fine, to some degree, but it is a lot more interesting if that is based on trust and taking the time to get to know people, trial periods instead of  "sharing your data" are far more nuanced and personal ways to handle things.

 

Scamming people is fun, huge heists and betrayal, that needs to be possible. And information plays a huge role in that. 

 

edit- I agree about the account scamming though, in some cases you need to protect people from themselves where it could affect anything outside the game. That's part of the deal of playing a video game after all.

Edited by Osegrim

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Logging into another persons account is against terms of service. This is a genuine CS investigation case, as ultimately you would be able to access personal details about the user (their listed billing address for example)... That's a possible security breach and will be treated as such. 

 

An account is listed to an individual owner. No other access is permitted. 

 

Thanks for clarifying :)

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I'm just asking, because I'm never sure where the line is drawn. I've scammed plenty in multiple games. It's a really thrilling experience :)

And I've taken items from other people's accounts, including whole guild banks.

 

But I wouldn't cross the line of stealing a whole account. Or delete characters... that's just malicious and I personally gain nothing from it.

I think tully answer was based on using in game mechanics to steal items or things out of the bank.  If you get those items because you had access to the account, I think you are in trouble.

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Agree with the comments so far, which is why we haven't agreed to put a Bounty system in yet :-). 

 

Let's move the discussion back to other self-policing tools, 

 

For genuine cases of harassment and threats do you prefer the idea of public player run tribunals or behind the scenes customer support run? 

Please do not do tribunals. They ALWAYS end up being way worse than a normal CS/GM team.


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I think at the point you log into someone's account with malicious intent is wrong. How/should punish those wrongs and what can be restored, if anything, in the event of those wrongs? I'm not sure.

 

But scamming should be a part of the game. Devs shouldn't spend their time trying to stay one step ahead fof the scammer and Customer Service shouldn't waste their time tracking scammers down.

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Get your info by playing the game............what a novel Idea!

 

Except that we live in an era where not everyone can be online 24/7, and the game already helps out with people for that (see: Bloodstone campaign rules).  Why force me to log into the installed game to view a stats board that could just as easily be exposed elsewhere?

 

 

yes, seen in Game by the Player for his/her own kill/death stats ONLY....

 

if it's shared it's in Game by Player consent....ONLY....

 

my point is that it "intel" should be gathered by in game Experience ONLY...no looked up on some website when it comes to other Players

 

if folks WANT to share their info...no problem, thank you for the free intel...

 

i just want to be able to opt out if such a thing is implemented, so nobody sees my stuff unless i let them...ever....

 

this is NOT a MOBA...the Campaigns may indeed End, but the Game of Thrones goes on and on and on...it should be ONLY the Player gathered info...right or wrong, that judgements are made from....thus rewarding those who can figure it out as opposed to rewarding anyone that can click a mouse on a website...

 

 

You keep mixing this issue with others.  Privacy is something that can be built into an API.  Snap-shots are things that can be built into an API.

 

Hell, make it so that in-game I can generate private keys that allow me to send data to other websites (hey look, this is how tons of APIs are designed), so that I can opt-in on a per-website basis (want your data only exposed to a website that merely confirms you killed a target?  Only give them the key, problem solved).

 

Basically everything you're saying other than "you must log-in to view this" are things that aren't mutually exclusive to an API.  And the log-in concept is what I disagree wholeheartedly with, as said at the top of this post.

 

Don't force ArtCraft to build all the in-game menus, and don't force me to log in just to view them.  It doesn't improve immersion (there's nothing immersive about in-game menus), it doesn't make the game more "serious" (our barrier to 'hardcore' is whether someone happens to have the game installed on every single device they own?  Really?), it just makes it more extensible.

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Can we go back to griefing and harassment for a sec?

 

What's the stance on scamming? From small cases of not trading what I was supposed to, up to getting someone's account because they handed me details and I empty their banks, EKs and so on...

But all with legit means, no exploit, hacks etc.

 

Will there be a "stupidity protection"?

Because let's be honest. If you get scammed, it's most likely because you didn't use your brain! (I know, I got scammed as well back in the day ;) )

 

i remember byr stealing trees, then the 'rightful' owner would bane it/get someone to bane it, then he'd hand it over to us...instant war just add water :)

 

i did like the mud mechanic of 'skin'...whhere you could skin your opponent and wear his skin as a cloak :) That would be a good bounty hunter trade skill hehe.

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Logging into another persons account is against terms of service. This is a genuine CS investigation case, as ultimately you would be able to access personal details about the user (their listed billing address for example)... That's a possible security breach and will be treated as such. 

 

An account is listed to an individual owner. No other access is permitted. 

Not even with the accounts owners permission?  Our guild founder usually has access to my account if needed while I am away.

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Competition & Betrayal

The core of our game is competition. A key component of politics is the concept of betrayal. Whether it be a subservient guild who who overthrows their master, an infiltrator who loots the entire guild cache and delivers it to their sworn enemy, or an alliance that breaks falls apart at a key turning point of a campaign... We consider these to be "fair game" tactics. We are designing flexibility into the system to allow these events to happen.

I am really glad to hear your stance on this. Makes me worry a bit about my shoes...

 

With that said, keep an eye on Established Guild vs. New Player dynamic. Make sure that effective security measures do not end up with "no unknown players" rules across competitive clans. If it is too easy to betray, then nobody ever would trust anyone. This is fine for legacy clans, but will make it less friendly to newcomers to the field.

 

Killing versus Griefing

Harassment of other players (either in-game via chat channels, or on the forums) will not be tolerated. We cannot condone abuse toward others, threats of real-life violence, comments regarding suicide, racial slurs -- there are a myriad of unacceptable behaviors, as outlined in our Code of Conduct. These behaviors have no place in ANY game and any player who feels it is necessary to test us on this position will be apologetically removed from our community. We have no tolerance for abuse or hate speech in our game, or on our forums.

This is all very reasonable, but this isn't exactly my definition of griefing. What you are talking about is just plain abuse.

 

Griefing in UO was selling fake black dye tubs, offering free portals "to Britain" that would end up in the demon room, making a dog guard gate so people would flag, leaving poisoned boxes around that would kill players unwise enough to open them, releasing a dragon in someone's house, placing a barrel on someone's emergency recall rune spot, snooping and opening all pouches while someone banks...

 

To me, griefing is a creative use of game systems for a purpose of ruining someone's day.

 

So, on this topic: what functionality do you want to see? What would help you?

I want to see player justice given another go. Better ability to track someone down. Not necessary track to "where", but to keep tabs on them. If I get got by JoeTheScamBot, I want to have a way to find out whose account it belongs to, and have a way to make them lose some pixels.

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Scamming items? Fair game. Scamming accounts? unacceptable (even if they were stupid enough to share account details). 

What are your stances gonna be on account sharing? For example boyfriend and girlfriend playing on the same character, 1 guy being sick for a siege so his friend logs onto his character, etc.

 

Edit: posted before I saw your reply.

Edited by macavity

7ug90hM.png


 


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Not even with the accounts owners permission?  Our guild founder usually has access to my account if needed while I am away.

IMO. of you have given permission for someone to access, you are good to go.  Implied consent.   If something happens it is between you and the GL.


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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Logging into another persons account is against terms of service. This is a genuine CS investigation case, as ultimately you would be able to access personal details about the user (their listed billing address for example)... That's a possible security breach and will be treated as such. 

 

An account is listed to an individual owner. No other access is permitted. 

Thanks Tully. I've seen some really nasty poorly made socks with hackers. I've seen a guild destroyed because of a hacker and it was a mod guild at that.


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