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Ziz

Where's The Long Term Character Progression?

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Real life isn't boring :x I quite enjoy it.

 

It is complex though; games are abstractions (simplifications) of life. I don't want to waste my time in a game that offers little fun for the sake of achievement. I'll just spend my time working toward something irl and reap significantly better rewards from it.

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Real life isn't boring :x I quite enjoy it.

 

It is complex though; games are abstractions (simplifications) of life. I don't want to waste my time in a game that offers little fun for the sake of achievement. I'll just spend my time working toward something irl and reap significantly better rewards from it.

But... NO ONE WILL NOTICE YOU


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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All I hope to achieve in a game is to fulfill my dream of being a pathological, homicidal maniac with a sociopathic ambition to kill people for money.

 

I'd prefer not to be chained down by silly things like power curves or rules or morals or police.

 

Is that so wrong?

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First I'd like to state that we do understand your points, we simply disagree with them.  I myself have played games with the exact systems you're advertising.  They were given a fair chance but disagreed with my ideology.  No other game existed at that time that did so compromises had to be made.

 

 

You want us to play a game of chess except we all start with one less pawn and must work our bottom off to earn it.  But you get that extra pawn because you have no life and require a game to satisfy your sense of accomplishment.  How is that at all fostering competition?  If you want mastery, you get it, it's not hard it just requires time.  If it's valuable for PVP, people will macro to get it or grind if they can't.  You grossly underestimate what most people will do to edge out every miniscule advantage from a competitive game.

 

DFO is an MMO that had players rolling up new characters, hitting 50, then deleting them and repeating the process simply because every character you leveled added to your total stats.  Marvel Heroes is another MMO that has players paying to unlock more heroes to do the same, because every maxed character adds to your synergy total.  DDO is yet another where players were rewarded for rebirthing their character to level 1 in exchange for more stat points, which they did repeatedly.  Mabinogi offered the same advantage and was the core element of the game's life skill system.

 

What you see as an "optional mastery system" I see as yet another REQUIRED grind.  If it makes you even 2% better than someone else, it's mandatory.

 

A lot of people keep referring to themepark MMOs, relating it to what I am suggesting here. If people keep saying that, they don't understand what I am saying at all. I do not in anyway want a themepark leveling system. They are putrid. 

 

Honestly, it's not even about the combat proficiency.

 

I would actually be quite happy if active combat training only gave you some kind of cosmetic upgrade to your character. That way, those who level purely based on passive training will have the same stats, but those who devote to the skill actively will also gain some visual perks. I'm not sure what exactly, it would depend on the skill. An example, actively leveling your sword skill could add a slight glow around any sword you wield. Just an idea. 

 

It's more about the prestige factor for me, not really about increasing my character's stats (although to a minor degree I don't have anything against that either). 

 

However, when it comes to crafting, I think active leveling is critical, at least for the final bit of it. If you can achieve mastery in crafting without actively using it, it really is a joke. There will be no prestige at all in crafting and the market will be flooded with the best gear. Pointless. 

 

The system of character rebirth is horrible. I don't want that at all. 

 

 

All I hope to achieve in a game is to fulfill my dream of being a pathological, homicidal maniac with a sociopathic ambition to kill people for money.

 

I'd prefer not to be chained down by silly things like power curves or rules or morals or police.

 

Is that so wrong?

 

Not at all. I want you to be able to fulfill that carnal dream too. I just want it to be done within a game world that is fleshed out and more meaningful than your average moba match. 

 

 

 

Real life isn't boring :x I quite enjoy it.

 

It is complex though; games are abstractions (simplifications) of life. I don't want to waste my time in a game that offers little fun for the sake of achievement. I'll just spend my time working toward something irl and reap significantly better rewards from it.

 

Real life as said is horribly designed. You are fated to play the game and die before you can even see 0.00001% of it. What can be done is unknown, there is no feedback at all on any progress, and there is an extreme amount of unfair RNG. It's just not a good game at all. Not to mention the skill degradation is insanely fast. 

Edited by unknownxv

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.

- Nietzsche

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well...imo...once you care about "prestige" you enter anotber realm where lovi g pixels matter...

 

ummm..no thanks


FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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I would actually be quite happy if active combat training only gave you some kind of cosmetic upgrade to your character. That way, those who level purely based on passive training will have the same stats, but those who devote to the skill actively will also gain some visual perks. I'm not sure what exactly, it would depend on the skill. An example, actively leveling your sword skill could add a slight glow around any sword you wield. Just an idea. 

 

It's more about the prestige factor for me, not really about increasing my character's stats (although to a minor degree I don't have anything against that either).

 

I'M FINE WITH THIS!  IMPLEMENT IT!  Kill 10,000 giant bugs = get Termitenator achievement, character now has half-robotic face.  Cosmetic crap is good for the cash shop too.  Don't care personally.  Valve makes a living on selling hats, good for Crowfall.

 

As for crafting, flooding the markets will still require actually getting the rarest resources.  Only the winners of the campaigns will get to keep most of their resources.  Since gear can be lost over time, replacements will be needed and that surplus will dry up.  I'm certain it won't be an issue and if it is they can adjust the amount of resources that spawn in game.  Less resources = less crafting, the good stuff goes to the elite spenders only.

Edited by Kyutaru

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well...imo...once you care about "prestige" you enter anotber realm where lovi g pixels matter...

 

ummm..no thanks

I usually measure prestige by the number of youtube videos that crop up of players ganking me 5+ v 1 and saying they owned me hard.


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OK, now we are moving to achivements.

 

I am all fine with that.

As long as they don't give you any in game power, then I don't care what else they give.

Give titles, hats, badges (need to inspect), chickens... you name it.

 

I understand that achivements are important to some.

For some its to have a goal to work towards, for others it actually make them feel like they achived more than they would have without it.

 

Personally, it does nothing for me at all.

Always shake my head and smile a little when some game on steam makes an update saying "Now with 5000 new achivements"


 

This game looks like a larger scale version of marvel heroes so far with forts.  - nephiral marts 7 2015

 

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Not exactly an achievement. It should be incorporated within each skill; an effect relevant to that skill. Yeah, that'd be really cool. 

 

Resources should not be the only limiting factor towards making the best gear possible. You should need the few dedicated players out there willing to make the climb to true mastery. 

Edited by unknownxv

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.

- Nietzsche

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A lot of people keep referring to themepark MMOs, relating it to what I am suggesting here. If people keep saying that, they don't understand what I am saying at all. I do not in anyway want a themepark leveling system. They are putrid. 

 

Honestly, it's not even about the combat proficiency.

 

I would actually be quite happy if active combat training only gave you some kind of cosmetic upgrade to your character. That way, those who level purely based on passive training will have the same stats, but those who devote to the skill actively will also gain some visual perks. I'm not sure what exactly, it would depend on the skill. An example, actively leveling your sword skill could add a slight glow around any sword you wield. Just an idea. 

 

It's more about the prestige factor for me, not really about increasing my character's stats (although to a minor degree I don't have anything against that either). 

 

However, when it comes to crafting, I think active leveling is critical, at least for the final bit of it. If you can achieve mastery in crafting without actively using it, it really is a joke. There will be no prestige at all in crafting and the market will be flooded with the best gear. Pointless. 

 

The system of character rebirth is horrible. I don't want that at all. 

 

 

As others have said if it doesn't impact actual gameplay and is cosmetic only, whatever super hard core grind achievements they add are fine with me. Probably your best way forward.

 

I'm still not convinced with crafting, it isn't like somebody is going to put in disciplines to crafting and train it up without crafting anyway, there would be no point. The best (hardest to craft) items will be from people who make their character a primary crafter for those items. They are likely to still be rarer (aside from in dregs possibly) because of the mats needed will be rare and things break. We also don't know how finely crafting is split out yet (1h sword crafting vs general weapon crafting for instance) I don't think, so I'm not worried about people who aren't primary crafters making top end items as it would be too many failures for the mats spent.

 

Perhaps you can add visual flair to items you craft after certain 50k crafting achievements, would that be adequate?

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I think crafting is too important a mechanic to devolve to purely cosmetic upgrades for active leveling. I've suggested before that passive leveling can be used in crafting skills but only up to 85-90% of the skill's total. The final 10% would have to be powered through manually. So there can be plenty of exceptional crafters out there in time, but only a few true masters of the craft. 

 

As for what rewards exactly mastering a craft would provide, that I am not sure of. I'd have to wait for more specific details of what artcraft intends to do with crafting before I can think of something that makes sense. 


The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.

- Nietzsche

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Do you understand how discipline runes work?

 

Sorry I can't tell from the forums (or I'm just wonderful) was that directed at me or unknownxv?

 

Edit: I've never seen this before but I love the negative word -> positive word translation that is done.

Edited by bryteise

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Do you understand how discipline runes work?

 

They are runes that you gather from specific Mobs in the world as drops, yes? Or perhaps there will be some offered for winning a campaign or something. They will allow you to specialize in a specific subset of your crafting skill, yes? 

 

Both are group specific achievements. Not related to individual performance, prestige or noteriety.

 

I want crafters to stand out as individuals. You can't do that in combat, so at least give crafters their place. 


The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.

- Nietzsche

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They are runes that you gather from specific Mobs in the world as drops, yes? Or perhaps there will be some offered for winning a campaign or something. They will allow you to specialize in a specific subset of your crafting skill, yes? 

 

Both are group specific achievements. Not related to individual performance, prestige or noteriety.

 

I want crafters to stand out as individuals. You can't do that in combat, so at least give crafters their place. 

 

I'm not convinced crafters are going to have an easy time not being part of a group (but super duper highly desired in one). Maybe in the some of the campaign types with big "teams" where you can have an easier time trading with non guidie types. But for the most part being able to obtain high end mats are likely going be difficult to manage solo (which seems in your wheelhouse for challenges) unless you are a very good crafting ganker (which sounds awesome).

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Tully made it seem like there could be 2 types of long term progression

 

 

There will be incredible items you need to work hard for, rare relics and artifacts to obtain, rare disciplines, a vast amount of progression through passive training. Campaign rewards (which is a driving force on why you actively play to win) and much more that we've yet to go into.

 

1) Rare Relics & Artifacts

2) Vast Passive Training

 

My main concern was that a relatively new character would be the same as a character I've been working on for years. Relics & Artifacts will be account wide so those don't count so we're left with PASSIVE training... This could give that long term progression feel I'm looking for or feel pointless because its passive.

Edited by ziz

MOkvLlm.png

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Its not some MOBA [snip]

 

 

How do you know that? It is a "Throne War simulator", you have skirmishes, it is decided who wins them each time, get some trophies, start another - that is what I take from it basically. Sounds pretty much like a MOBA with persistent trophy room and a few buffs to me (and impact of numbers of followers).

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