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ZtyX

How Many Winners Can There Be? (Can Multiple Sides Win?)

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I'm sure the losing party would like to kneel in most or all cases. The question is, why would the proposed victor accept the kneel?

 

Multi factions with 1 winner.

 

Guild Tryhard is winning the campaign, no one will be able to best them.

Guild Alsotries is solidly behind them, but can at least compete on local objectives. (They are skilled but small)

Guild Hordeofnoobs has way more people than either faction, but just gets stomped in actual fights.

 

With no alliances, Tryhard wins. However with fealty Hordeofnoobs could swear to Alsotries (or vice versa) and stand up and defeat Tryhard (who deny any who attempt to kneel to them). Without kneeling both the other guilds walk away losers. With it, they can walk away as winner and almost winners.

 

Alternately: you having a reputation as gracious victors may mean others are more willing to accept your pledge when you do not win.

 

It gives options and the opportunity for interesting player interactions. So it is a good thing. I just gave a couple of scenarios, but if you really want I can keep making up others.

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Sure, I'm not saying that the question "why would someone accept a kneel?" doesn't have an answer, I'm just saying that the important question is "why would someone accept a kneel?" as opposed to "why would someone kneel?"


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Sure, I'm not saying that the question "why would someone accept a kneel?" doesn't have an answer, I'm just saying that the important question is "why would someone accept a kneel?" as opposed to "why would someone kneel?"

I would imagine you would accept a kneel if you need their help to defeat a common enemy. You are the stronger, but not quite strong enough. So you let this guy join you through kneeling, and, together, you destroy the common enemy and share the spoils.

Fairly common scenario throughout history.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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I would imagine you would accept a kneel if you need their help to defeat a common enemy. You are the stronger, but not quite strong enough. So you let this guy join you through kneeling, and, together, you destroy the common enemy and share the spoils.

Fairly common scenario throughout history.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."


"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

A solid quote, I'd say.

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There are 6-12 multiple sides, but how many of those can actually 'win'?

 

I heard the term 'kneel' appear. How does that work?

 

What determines a 'loss'?

 

1)  There will be as many winners as they deem fun after we've playtested.  The great thing about the system they are planning is that they can change the rules from campaign to campaign if it's not fun.  So let's say we have a 12 faction war and our first time out 1 faction gets 100% of their embargo and the other 11 get 20%.  People ending up finding this horrible (not saying we will but let's say we do after experiencing it).  Perhaps for the next similar campaign they make the winner get 100%, second place get 90%, third get 80% ect ect.  

 

The simple answer is there doesn't need to be a clear winner/loser line for each campaign and where and how solid this line in can be tweaked very easily with the developers proposed system.  

 

2)  We have very few details on the kneeling system at this time.  Again, how it works could potentially be different from campaign to campaign.   

 

3)  This will likely be very different from campaign to campaign.  Perhaps losing your capital, perhaps losing all of your provinces, perhaps having mined less stone.  

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Pretty much every system has a method of being gamed if you have multiple accounts you are willing to use available to multiple factions. Ways to mitigate this include: kills are diminished per account (not character) killed. So if you kill one of bob's characters, your reward is reduced every additional time (to the point of being worthless). Also obvious exploitation would be actionable. Logs are kept of everything.
 
 
 
Again, every system can be gamed, however without knowing the actual system you are just writing this off as "there is probably a way around it so why bother" if thats your mindset, then don't bother.
 
 
This is already a confirmed victory condition for some campaigns. You will have to bring comfort to yourself however possible. Maybe you should avoid those campaigns.
 
 
You absolutely can and DO punish players for being offline in many many games. Pretty much every MMO has some aspect of: Daily rewards, quests, conversion, lockout timers. These mean if you miss a day or week or whatever the cooldown duration is, you can NEVER make it up. The purpose of these is to encourage players to log in every day to maintain populations when content has stagnated. This is in addition to the fact you have lost the opportunity to acquire resources in this time.
 
 
There is a sucker born every minute. You can choose never to betray or never trust someone who has betrayed anyone before. But the difference between traitors and heroes is who's side you are on. George Washington was a traitor, but he was still fairly popular for those that he defected TO. Also you are out of hand discounting the long con. Your guild sells itself every campaign for a year and almost guarantees victory. So much so that other guilds rely on you as much as themselves. Then when a big campaign comes, you decide that: Nope, this time its for me.

 

^^

 

I like your toughts.

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The kneeling part sounds quite intriguing.

Though I wonder what purpose it would have for the losing party not to kneel.

 

I would assume you can't just kneel when it's obvious that you're losing. The kneeling mechanic is probably an outside of combat action that you can take during the spring/summer(/fall maybe?) that will allow players who know they would otherwise lose to choose a side after all the initial alliances are decided. This is only my idea of why people wouldn't kneel. I am interested as someone who only gets involved in small guilds, if any at all, how they will make alliances work so I don't automatically lose every campaign, which would make things restricting because I would only be able to play in the lower level ones if I automatically lose. They've said it will be possible to play solo and still win and even do well. Hard, but possible. I'm intrigued to see what they do.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if everyone got to be a winner to avoid hurt feelings.

 

They won't do that. They've already said multiple times that this game is a competative PvP game that is not for everyone. There WILL be losers and there WILL be winners.

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I would assume you can't just kneel when it's obvious that you're losing.

Oh, I bet you can kneel whenever you want.

 

Doesn't mean the other guy has to accept it.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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