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Jihan

Crowfall Is Not A Sandbox Game

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When we think sandbox, we think of games where most of the content is player interaction rather than set-piece PVE encounters, and that's definitely true of Crowfall. We tend to think of games where the economy is based on player produced goods rather than found gear, and that's also true of Crowfall. So certainly, there's sand in the game's DNA.

 

But sandboxes don't have victory conditions. Sandboxes don't have sessions with a clear beginning and end. Sandboxes don't have a scoring system, nor do they force you to reset the score to zero on a regular basis. A sandbox isn't so much a game, as it is a place where you can play your own game whatever that may be. In contrast, Crowfall is very much a game itself- a game played on sand, but with much more structure than the sand itself provides.

 

So, Crowfall isn't a sandbox. Crowfall is beach volleyball.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Sandboxes have no direction, they're do what you want. Unfortunately the average player doesn't know what the custard he wants to do, so yea, there's that problem.

 

 

Whenever you give people free choice to what to do the first thing they will do is look for someone to copy.

Edited by DFDelta

Constant optimism will not solve your problems,


but it will annoy enough people to be worth the effort.

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ummmmm....... EVE......

 

and it wasn't the sandbox that did in things like UO or SB....or as we've found out....SWG...

 

in each it appears that cash was the downfall...and not lack of it itself.....but disappointment due to unrealistic expectations

 

just my Thoughts on it....I could be wrong...


FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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Crowfall is very much a game itself- a game played on sand, but with much more structure than the sand itself provides.

 

So, Crowfall isn't a sandbox. 

 

Do you consider EVE Online to be a sandbox game? 

Do you consider A Tale in the Desert to be a sandbox game? 

 

The presence of rules or win conditions to portions of the game mechanics does not negate the existence of freedom of choice and unscripted adventure in the greater gameplay experience.

 

From what I have read so far, campaigns are simply conflict scenarios within a far larger war and far greater scope of gameplay. 

 

It's important to understand that sandbox gameplay isn't just a pit of sand. It is the sand, tools, and physics that make it a creative playground. The extent of those tools, rules and physics can vary, but they are present and they need to be present in order for any level of creative gameplay, emergent gameplay... sandbox gameplay... to actually happen. I mean, how much fun is a sandbox without water, pails, and shovels, right? 

 

 

“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.” - Carl Sagan 

 

If you want to go that route, then it's definitely not a sandbox, but that's really not a realistic criteria to go by. 

Edited by buc denizen

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I think Crowfall is a retort to the fatal issue with Sandbox; stasis. J. Todd describes, from what I remember, his experience of working on Shadowbane and it's uniquely fatal flaw of peace reigning once the boundaries were set and no one wanted to rock the boat. People actively cheered when the development team wiped the servers and allowed a fresh start. Having win conditions with a fresh map forces people into competition which breeds conflict and intrigue (Things any game thrives on); wanting to broker peace here is akin to resigning to defeat. Indeed, lack of win conditions or renewal of the board can only lead to stasis. Case and point: CCP currently is implementing changes to nullsec to revamp sovereignty and address the apparent stagnation and stasis that's occurring. 

 

I, for one, welcome the limited nature of campaigns of Crowfall. Permanency is stagnation. The only one constant is change. 

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Sandbox is just an overused gaming label to appeal to gamers. It's a just a buzzword to garner attention.

I'm probably going to hurt people's feelings here, but it's more like a M-MOBA-RPG.


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How do you define Sandbox?

What criteria does a game need to be considered Sandbox?

Really hard to tell imo, dont think there is a yes or no answer to that.

Certain elements are very sandboxy, some are not.

It is less sandboxy than a game like EVE, but more sandboxy than MMOs that offer much less freedom.

Where do you draw the line?

 

I think the concept sounds great, a pure sandbox game like minecraft is just boring to me

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To be honest - a true sandbox well would offer more possibilities then the players want to have. Why? Because in my mind a true sandbox game should only deliver a world and throw the players into it and let them do their way. Maybe some bug hunting, bot banning and management. But nothing more. The wannabe sandbox games of recent times are just nothing more than a weak attempt of mixing things together to appeal a certain criteria. I mean ArcheAge on the core was and is still a nice game. But people overuse sandbox over it. 

 

And honestly a sandbox game will only live if the concept and world itself is that good designed so that the players can actively construct and build their own story. But the thing is quality of most game isn't even near a standard level from previous year. I mean heck I even would start over playing Lineage 2 if they had a fresh server at start and would probably stay there for a long time. And the thing is - if games or the whole situation pretty much forces me into a 10+ year old game there is something serious wrong. 

 

So with that in mind I seriously hope no one takes CF as a "sandbox mmo" or suggestions like "PvE campaigns" and such. I mean stick what is a good concept - I don't want nothing more than that. 


You get the wolves...lots of wolves...and sheep that wear armor and have developed an appetite for blood soaked grass - dubanka

Even insects smell good when roasted - a random confessor

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yes i also think this will be the point where the sandbox concept breaks.

 

if you give people a clear goal you limit the range of possible playsytles,because a lot of play styles won't be affordable if the goal is not compatible with it.

 

thats the main point why i haven't backed and it is the main point why i have no idea if that game will really be what i am looking for.

 

lets assume there is a score to determine the winner,and now how are points gained?

probably by conquering,so everything else except combat-playstyle is degraded to support....

 

if there is a score,points should be generated by ALL actions,not just conquering and holding lands

Edited by kampfbock

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Another semantics discussion eh :) I feel as though its fairly pointless, but then again we don't have much else to speculate and debate about right now..


Member of The BlackHand Order

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Whatever it is, I hope it's fun for more than a month.

I'm pretty confident in the decisions ACE had made so far except a couple monetization ones.  I think their vision is not only great, but reasonable.

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I'm pretty confident in the decisions ACE had made so far except a couple monetization ones.  I think their vision is not only great, but reasonable.

 

Vision and execution are two different things. Don't get me wrong, I plastered $250 of hard drug money on this game so I am in it for the long haul. But we all know how many times companies promise something and then you get something else entirely, or the promised features that people crowdfunded the game for will come 2 years after release.

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