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Let's Change The Slogan.


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Have you read the tournament FAQs yet? I suggest you do.

 

As for the rest of the post, this game is a MMORPG. Any game with character roles where you get to take on the direction of one piece of the overall world's puzzle, and you get to play with a massive amount of other players at the same time in one location, is an MMORPG. It contains elements of other game genres as well, but that doesn't make it less a MMORPG, it just makes it a MMORPTPGCSG.

 

I've read the tournament info, and I'm still not confident that makes this a Game of Thrones.

 

Also, you grew up in this generation of poorly defined genres and I apologize for that, so I don't really blame you, but you should really educate yourself on why our genre definitions suck.

 

If I told you "hey play Fallout 3, it's an FPS."  Or, "Hey, play Battlefield, it's an FPS."  Or, "Hey, play Half Life, it's an FPS."  Would you expect all three of those games to be the same?

 

Why the heck are LoL and Dota not called RTS?  The strategy is in real time, and the controls are the same.

 

MMORPG is not a genre name that gives any clarity to how Crowfall will work.  That's a fact.  No one coming in hearing that is going to expect time-gated PvP super-arenas.  It's played for a completely different reason and to test a completely different set of skills than the big themepark MMOs.

 

Really, just go watch this three-part series on genres.  It'll help.

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Crowfall: The Players don't really know a damn thing yet.

ya want a throwback?  I'll give ya a throw back.  Bet so many here now, post ks'er have never even seen this:  

Giving a shout out to my homies with a throwback, PLAY TO CRUSH!

 

 
 

 

That is Tully's life work, explaining that this is a PvP based game... daily.

Just to prove you right.  Tully  March 23rd:

 

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game. I'm starting to think people just don't listen to me   :(

 

 

Next time one of these threads pop up (probably sometime tomorrow) can y'all do me a favor and let them know their concerns are ill-found? "

Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

RIP Doc Gonzo "to anyone...speak your mind...defend your position...be prepared for an Argument and enjoy the process of the discussion...that's all part of any good Forum experience"

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"They won't believe you! You know nothing Tully!"

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I've read the tournament info, and I'm still not confident that makes this a Game of Thrones.

 

Also, you grew up in this generation of poorly defined genres and I apologize for that, so I don't really blame you, but you should really educate yourself on why our genre definitions suck.

 

If I told you "hey play Fallout 3, it's an FPS."  Or, "Hey, play Battlefield, it's an FPS."  Or, "Hey, play Half Life, it's an FPS."  Would you expect all three of those games to be the same?

 

Why the heck are LoL and Dota not called RTS?  The strategy is in real time, and the controls are the same.

 

MMORPG is not a genre name that gives any clarity to how Crowfall will work.  That's a fact.  No one coming in hearing that is going to expect time-gated PvP super-arenas.  It's played for a completely different reason and to test a completely different set of skills than the big themepark MMOs.

 

Really, just go watch this three-part series on genres.  It'll help.

 

If there is a fealty system, or they flesh out the whole kneeling piece, this game would be very much like GoT because now guilds/players can pretend to help our their Lords, then they can do things like backstab or spy or whatever other kind of espionage.

 

That is how I was able to draw the connection, but we still don't have that information yet.

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I've read the tournament info, and I'm still not confident that makes this a Game of Thrones.

 

Also, you grew up in this generation of poorly defined genres and I apologize for that, so I don't really blame you, but you should really educate yourself on why our genre definitions suck.

 

If I told you "hey play Fallout 3, it's an FPS."  Or, "Hey, play Battlefield, it's an FPS."  Or, "Hey, play Half Life, it's an FPS."  Would you expect all three of those games to be the same?

 

Why the heck are LoL and Dota not called RTS?  The strategy is in real time, and the controls are the same.

 

MMORPG is not a genre name that gives any clarity to how Crowfall will work.  That's a fact.  No one coming in hearing that is going to expect time-gated PvP super-arenas.  It's played for a completely different reason and to test a completely different set of skills than the big themepark MMOs.

 

Really, just go watch this three-part series on genres.  It'll help.

 

I have seen that video before, and it is a laundry load of poorly made socks.

 

Gaming is starting to become more and more cross genre as the industry evolves. The MOBA came out of the RTS platform, but it plays completely different from any real-time strategy game, and a new genre was born. Genre defining is a sum of the whole, and is not based on the emotional triggers of a game. This is why we have sub-genres or sub-classifications in entertainment media.

 

You have core genres:

 

  • Role Playing
  • Shooter
  • Strategy
  • Platform
  • Etc.

You have sub-genres:

 

  • Western role playing
  • Tactical shooter
  • Grand campaign strategy

What we are starting to see a lot of now are cross-genres as the lines become more blurred and as elements from the core genres are creeping into other core genres. Like bastard children that somehow turn out okay because they were kept out of the foster system. I don't think that our genre definitions suck, but they have become quite convoluted due to this fact. It used to be simpler yes, but it is becoming less so as this breeding continues.

 

At its core this game is a MMORPG, there are other elements at play, but that is what Crowfall is. Looking at the sum of the whole, Crowfall is a MMORPG.

Edited by Adall
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Except there is no THRONE.  So calling it "Like Game of Thrones" when there isn't a primary objective that everyone is vying for is going to really confuse people.

 

 

"ArtCraft describes Crowfall as an MMO throne war simulator, in which players take on the role of kings, queens, mercenaries, and assassins in a feudal world. Players will also battle for territory by building castles and siege equipment." http://www.gamespot.com/articles/throne-war-simulator-crowfall-raises-800-000-in-3-/1100-6425599/

 

"Massively Multiplayer Online - Throne War Simulator: Allies. Enemies. Alliances. Empires. Betrayal. Conquest. A new and different take on the MMO genre." crowfall.com/

 

"Tournaments! We will add a single-elimination Tournament ladder for guilds to compete on a annual (or bi-annual) basis. Guilds will have to win a Campaign to qualify, at which point they will be pitted against each other in a single elimination, winner-take-all Tournament to take home the Dragon Throne -- an Artifact which benefits everyone in the Kingdom -- and which shows, without question, which Guild is the best." https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crowfall/crowfall-throne-war-pc-mmo/posts/1176510

 

"... Valkyn the Ancient, Creator of the All, and He Who Sits Upon The Dragon Throne8 The Dragon Throne is His and His alone, though it be ill-named, for surely it is more Throne than Dragon. ... making the creature His living throne ..." http://crowfall.com/#/news/war-of-the-gods-part-1

 

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I really think they just do it so people can keep yelling at each other on the forums.

If they would just say 'This game is going to be full on PvP. Period.' That would make for a lot less discusion.

 

Or perhaps they are staying open to the idea of PvE, which I really hope they aren't.

I think they simply just don't give a damn. In the end no matter what they say a more pointless threads will open and people will continue to throw sand in each others faces and crow foul. They've given enough information to show that it is pvp geared. The only thing remotely pve about the game is the mobs that would appear to swell and mob you. Followed by other players who want to scavenge your corpse.

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Crowfall: The Players don't really know a damn thing yet.

 /thread  

 

 

Lol agreed, and we're more of an audience than players based off the reason, we haven't even played it.

"So Doggetts f****** crazy i know that" - J Todd Coleman

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lol the true slogan should be "It is Game of Thrones plus Eve Online! That's right! Game of Thrones! Now in reality, you will probably be a peasant farmer, or a knight working for some lesser house, having the cool part of Game of Thrones be controlled by guild leaders forged over 10 years or from youtube, but nonetheless it is game of thrones! Oh and crafting...but since it's game of thrones, you will probably die anyway"

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I have seen that video before, and it is a laundry load of poorly made socks.

 

Gaming is starting to become more and more cross genre as the industry evolves. The MOBA came out of the RTS platform, but it plays completely different from any real-time strategy game, and a new genre was born. Genre defining is a sum of the whole, and is not based on the emotional triggers of a game. This is why we have sub-genres or sub-classifications in entertainment media.

 

You have core genres:

 

  • Role Playing
  • Shooter
  • Strategy
  • Platform
  • Etc.

You have sub-genres:

 

  • Western role playing
  • Tactical shooter
  • Grand campaign strategy

What we are starting to see a lot of now are cross-genres as the lines become more blurred and as elements from the core genres are creeping into other core genres. Like bastard children that somehow turn out okay because they were kept out of the foster system. I don't think that our genre definitions suck, but they have become quite convoluted due to this fact. It used to be simpler yes, but it is becoming less so as this breeding continues.

 

At its core this game is a MMORPG, there are other elements at play, but that is what Crowfall is. Looking at the sum of the whole, Crowfall is a MMORPG.

 

I don't understand.  You agree that genres are confusing and not very explanatory of the actual game, but you think the video is wrong.  You talk about how we have to keep coming up with sub genres and how these mechanics start bleeding into eachother, and yet you don't seem to think that "MMORPG" is not a clear definition of what Crowfall is trying to do.

 

It sounds like you're agreeing with everything the video is saying, yet insisting that you aren't due to some kind of specific language being used.

 

You seem to dislike the concept of core engagement, boiling it down to "emotional triggers" and yet this is exactly how genres are defined in virtually every other creative form.  Only in games to we define genres entirely by mechanics.

 

Your comments about the MOBA genre are particularly confusing.  You reiterated what I said, and yet you seem to disagree?  MOBAs in fact, are mechanically identical to an RTS.  The only real difference is the number of units you are capable of controlling (though some RTSs have a very small number of units to control, and some MOBAs let you control more than one thing, so that line even gets blurred).  But, since the core engagement is different, since you couldn't go to someone and say "This game is an RTS" and have them know whether or not they should play it, it became it's own genre.

 

I've already had a number of people get turned off to Crowfall the moment I said it was an MMO.  "I'm done with MMOs after [insert themepark MMO name here that didn't end up beating WoW]" or "I don't really like MMOs" are responses I've gotten more than a few times.  And yet every time I actually explained what Crowfall was, they were hooked.  Most of those same people ended up kickstarting the game.  But they wouldn't have if they had just come across it and seen "MMORPG" branded on the front.

 

We can agree to disagree I guess, but I really think that if Crowfall becomes a big hit (big enough that people everywhere are talking about it), there will be a new word for the kind of genre and niche it carves out.  Just as LoL's success forced people to define the term "MOBA," a massive-arena RPG-combat thing is going to be interesting to a whole different breed of people than the traditional "MMORPG" fans, and they are going to want to differentiate it.

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ya want a throwback?  I'll give ya a throw back.  Bet so many here now, post ks'er have never even seen this:

 

T8WB9Me.jpg

 

Interesting how far from this it feels like we already are. Not better or worse, just different now.

 

BTW I DONT want to PLAY a GAME. I want to LIVE in a virtual WORLD.  :D

I role play a wordsmith.

 

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Ok let me try. I've been known to come up with some pretty rad ideas a time or two in my day. I'm going to throw in some snark but its all in good fun I mean no harm.

 

"From the developers that brought you Trammel and SWG-NGE, comes CROWFALL, this birds got wings!"  (I thought Gordon might get a smile outta this one)

 

"Its like a MMORPG, a MOBA, and a Strategy Game had a 3-way and Crowfall flew out, giggity"

 

"If you think a pvp game or niche game or tv show or gaming device is cool, we're a lot like it"

 

"Crowfall; this bird can fly"

 

"Crowfall; Come find the shiny"

 

"Crowfall; Eagles don't flock"

 

"Crowfall; Fight and get flocked up!"

 

"Crowfall; got any string?" (Its well documented in the Rats of NIMH that crows love string, this is known)

 

"Crowfall; War of Dravens" (Man, I wonder how many peopel are to young for this one...)

 

 

Ok ok, I'll try some real ones too its fun!

 

"Eternal Kingdom, Eternal Warrior, Eternal Conflict" or "Eternal Kingdom, Eternal Hero, Eternal War!"

 

"A rule set to rule them all"

 

"A rule set for everyone"

 

"A red wedding that never ends"

 

"Start Counting" (Yes this is a play on Counting Crows ((yes Im old)) but I was thinking of it as inference to start counting-days til its out, bodies, victories, friends, enemies etc.)

 

"Like your first 3 months, every three months" (Refferencing that people often love modern MMOs for about 3 months then quit and move on. Also meaning its new and exciting again repeatedly.)

Edited by tierless

I role play a wordsmith.

 

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I don't understand.  You agree that genres are confusing and not very explanatory of the actual game, but you think the video is wrong.  You talk about how we have to keep coming up with sub genres and how these mechanics start bleeding into eachother, and yet you don't seem to think that "MMORPG" is not a clear definition of what Crowfall is trying to do.

 

I don't find game genres confusing, I find them convoluted... or complex, maybe a bit messy and disorganized. I said very clearly that the genres are defined as a sum of the whole, so most of what Crowfall adds up to be is essentially an MMORPG, therefore that is the best sub-genre to link it too. It has other elements, but they aren't as weighty when looking at the whole game.

 

It sounds like you're agreeing with everything the video is saying, yet insisting that you aren't due to some kind of specific language being used.

 

You seem to dislike the concept of core engagement, boiling it down to "emotional triggers" and yet this is exactly how genres are defined in virtually every other creative form.  Only in games to we define genres entirely by mechanics.

 

Books as well, books are defined as Fiction and Non-Fiction, sub-genres result from there as a sum of the whole. Otherwise we wouldn't have separate genres for fantasy and science fiction. Art too is classified, not by emotion, but typically by style or period. Not sure why you are clinging to this. Music is defined by how it sounds, not how you feel about it. Death Cab for Cutie will never be Hip Hop or Classical. Movies is really your only go to for emotionally defined genres. Games don't typically follow suit.

 

Your comments about the MOBA genre are particularly confusing.  You reiterated what I said, and yet you seem to disagree?  MOBAs in fact, are mechanically identical to an RTS.  The only real difference is the number of units you are capable of controlling (though some RTSs have a very small number of units to control, and some MOBAs let you control more than one thing, so that line even gets blurred).  But, since the core engagement is different, since you couldn't go to someone and say "This game is an RTS" and have them know whether or not they should play it, it became it's own genre.

 

MOBAs share the same general control elements as an RTS, but are not an RTS as the overall gameplay is different. MOBAs have more in common with ARPG PvP than they do with RTS. The only thing they share with RTS is they were developed as an RTS mod.

 

I've already had a number of people get turned off to Crowfall the moment I said it was an MMO.  "I'm done with MMOs after [insert themepark MMO name here that didn't end up beating WoW]" or "I don't really like MMOs" are responses I've gotten more than a few times.  And yet every time I actually explained what Crowfall was, they were hooked.  Most of those same people ended up kickstarting the game.  But they wouldn't have if they had just come across it and seen "MMORPG" branded on the front.

 

That is unfortunate that some folks have had bad experiences in the MMORPG sub-genre. That doesn't mean we need to redefine it, or put Crowfall in another area. There are some really poorly made socksty fantasy books out there, but there are some great ones too. There are some horrible songs out there by some very good artists, but that doesn't invalidate their genius. Some people aren't capable of digging deeper than the surface for certain things, it often takes someone to guide them past that. This is a human error, and our general issue with labels, but that doesn't make the labels inaccurate...

 

We can agree to disagree I guess, but I really think that if Crowfall becomes a big hit (big enough that people everywhere are talking about it), there will be a new word for the kind of genre and niche it carves out.  Just as LoL's success forced people to define the term "MOBA," a massive-arena RPG-combat thing is going to be interesting to a whole different breed of people than the traditional "MMORPG" fans, and they are going to want to differentiate 

 

Nothing wrong with looking to stand out, come up with a new term... if it sticks though, it just becomes another sub-genre.

Edited by Adall
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I have seen that video before, and it is a laundry load of poorly made socks.

 

From context I figured it was probably another terribad Extra Credits video. Then your post made me certain. So I clicked the link, yep terrible EC video.

 

 

What the crap are people arguing about this for? We appear to be well into the Star Citizen White and Black knights phase already. At least SC got a little further before getting this stupid.

David Sirlin's Balancing Multiplayer Games should be mandatory reading for all gamers.

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