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cyjax

Sbemu - How Does It Stack Up Against Magicbane?

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meh might as well say it since this #'s stuff keeps going ect and its what been what 2 years? 

 

 

 

"56 Bros"  

 

good times gg's and please let it go

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With these changes they are wanting to make in 1.6 on EMU, I'm starting to lean towards MB. Starfish needs to be removed, I don't know who gave him the right to decide on these changes to SB, but he needs to be yanked off the stage, he's ruining the last bit of SB goodness we have left, and killing the community.


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~Black Aria IC~

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Some prefer open confrontation, whereas others prefer passive-aggressive forum moderation and backroom chicanery. I would actually be doing you a favor if I were summoning you like Beetlejuice - as you note, though, being like Beetlejuice would require you to actually appear, as opposed to lurking in perpetuity. It may never have dawned on you, but perhaps I mention you because I know you're always there, reading, lurking, and sometimes referring posters for moderation or some other penalty if they mention a certain character from Superbad.

 

Some even prefer to actually play the game of the gaming communities that they moderate. :D

pls notice me senpai

Edited by zooksimo

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He's been at the helm for years making massive changes with no clue as to balance and ignoring the CRT. I'm sure sbemu have had strides in stability, but it seems like you're still at the stage MagicBane was in alpha. You guys say you'll go to magicbane, but as soon as Starfish says wipe, you guys will go right back.

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If it makes you any happier, I will restate my proposition so that it has an unimpeachable truth value.

HAHAHAHAHA.

 

Thanks for the chuckle.

 

Couple of quick points to your wall of text - Your position is that "As for that video, yes, I already addressed it; you demonstrated that we brought a group of NZSP to one of these banes. That doesn't mean we did so at other banes, nor does it mean that your exaggerations about NZSP numbers at any other banes are any more or less valid."

 

  • The video shows two walls still up, over 50 toons for your forces, and 11 CN.
  • "A group" = 10 toons. 11>10
  • Therefore, your position is incorrect.
  • Let's say you only had 4 other groups and change. Are you really trying to argue that a force multiplier of 20-25% doesn't make a difference in the field? Even if all they do is soak up AoEs and get resummons, they are a targetable object, which per your own admitted position that toons in the field are the objective measure (one thing we can agree on), limits the damage taken on your other toons, leaving them in the field for longer and allowing your toons to do more damage than they otherwise would have not survived to do.

Other bane screenshots have been posted in this very thread. Note that some have snow and some do not - I would think that would be enough to let you know that the towns are in fact different banes.

 

Based on the above, can we agree that more than a group of CN showed up to the first bane laid by your Wehrno1validzerg alliance? If so, we can move on to other banes.


CF_Van.png

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Starfish is one of the major reasons that SB probably about to die for good.  He does the same thing, over and over, and has slowly divided the community, and will continue to run more people off.  He baits people in with promises of fixing up the game, improving things, and making it interesting.  He acts like he's going out of his way, and spending a ton of time and effort, to save the game.  Truth is, he was a child when SB was live (not an 18 year old, an actual child - he was 12-13 during SBs prime).  He was the silly kid in my guild that would roll def stance dagger throwing proccing warriors and get killed in town/made fun of for being utterly useless.  

 

That was what he got from SB.  All he wants to do is change things into whatever vision he has of being a "leet dueling game".  I tried to help guide their first SBE balance patch, and managed to stop them from doing some incredibly stupid things (mino stun immunity only works at 33% hp, shadowmantle flagged as poison debuff, etc).  In the end, though, all he does is just push his ideas, ignore everyone else (or butcher a decent idea to be in line with his thoughts).  The "community feedback", "roundtable feedback", or "advocate feedback" more or less have little real importance.  He only listens to them when the feedback is so overwhelming negative that people will actually quit the game en masse if he doesn't remove some stupid idea.

 

I don't play SB anymore as it seems the MB developers gave up (honestly, MB was fun after a 5 year SB break.  They did a great job on making it run well), but just reading some of the changes makes me laugh.  50+ aoe targets?  Really?  If anything the game needed to have AoEs turned down.  Who in their right mind thinks that a game is fun when you stand still and mash one button?  The reason all the good guilds used meat was because it was actually fun to play.  Kiting, getting on target, switching targets, etc - things that required actual skill and coordination.  Casters are still more than viable on MB, with no changes to the game, but for the most part, it's simply not fun to play them en masse and just try to spam AoEs. 

 

The people actually coding need to just kick him out.  It's really the only way that game has a chance.  Him and koots don't understand you can't just throw in a million changes, over and over, with no testing, and expect a decent and cohesive project.  It's especially true when the game is a decade old.  Basically, he just succeeded in usurping the project, unlike Murray who tried years earlier when SB live first went down and the emulators popped up.  The problem with these people is they didn't actually make a good game or build an audience - they stole it from someone else.

Edited by frobobo

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With these changes they are wanting to make in 1.6 on EMU, I'm starting to lean towards MB. Starfish needs to be removed, I don't know who gave him the right to decide on these changes to SB, but he needs to be yanked off the stage, he's ruining the last bit of SB goodness we have left, and killing the community.

 

Not to support either emulator, but Starfish does know a heck of a lot about balance, I do respect his knowledge of the game, and haven't noticed anything "in particular" which was under or overpowering.  If manipulating the powers/balance is not your cup of tea, then clearly MB is the emulator for you.  For me at least, the changes were interesting enough for me to give it a try.

 

When is CF Alpha release???? :D


CF_Hap.png

SCOTLAND!

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Sure, the changes are interesting. And even though I don't play that emu, when Magicbane has the stability, then you should differentiate your product on a level you can compete if you can't compete in one area.

 

But they nerfed rogues, nerf meat, nerfed resists, and beefed up aoes. His vast knowledge of the game? If you make weaken paper and rock, but put laser beams on scissors -- it's a no brainer that scissors is going to win most of the time. There are a lot of brilliant people in Shadowbane, all with great areas of knowledge. But you can't just create a round table and then make your decisions while sitting at the toilet. The guy can make all the changes he wants, but when goofybane fails, it's not going to be the fault of the roundtable, Chimpy or Rich, testers, etc. One person is making the majority of the decisions and the majority of the mistakes. It's not just the burden of leadership, it's the burden of one person's ego.

 

He even deleted his own apology letter. That's how "humble" of a guy you're dealing with.

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I mean, when the insulted starkid renames my characters because they're named "Reforged in Fail" and "Starfail the Idiot" then you know he has an ego issue. Like dude, hands off. He can't help himself. He really can't.

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HAHAHAHAHA.

 

Thanks for the chuckle.

 

Couple of quick points to your wall of text - Your position is that "As for that video, yes, I already addressed it; you demonstrated that we brought a group of NZSP to one of these banes. That doesn't mean we did so at other banes, nor does it mean that your exaggerations about NZSP numbers at any other banes are any more or less valid."

 

  • The video shows two walls still up, over 50 toons for your forces, and 11 CN.
  • "A group" = 10 toons. 11>10
  • Therefore, your position is incorrect.
  • Let's say you only had 4 other groups and change. Are you really trying to argue that a force multiplier of 20-25% doesn't make a difference in the field? Even if all they do is soak up AoEs and get resummons, they are a targetable object, which per your own admitted position that toons in the field are the objective measure (one thing we can agree on), limits the damage taken on your other toons, leaving them in the field for longer and allowing your toons to do more damage than they otherwise would have not survived to do.

Other bane screenshots have been posted in this very thread. Note that some have snow and some do not - I would think that would be enough to let you know that the towns are in fact different banes.

 

Based on the above, can we agree that more than a group of CN showed up to the first bane laid by your Wehrno1validzerg alliance? If so, we can move on to other banes.

 

I already agreed that a group of NZSP showed to this bane as early as the fourth page in this thread. You keep pasting the same screenshots from the same bane (this would be the third or fourth time in this thread) as if doing so works to wring another concession from me or somehow betters your substantive position in this argument. Doing such doesn't have either effect. Again, I already addressed your screenshots from this bane pages ago:

 

 

 

So you have two screenshots from two banes where NZSP actually made some sort of contribution. I posted two videos where it's quite clear the NZSP presence was virtually nil. In the one video you can also see a ton of "Retribution" members assisting CR; that's an offensive bane that we won (thanks for the city) wherein G1/NZSP's presence was scant. I suppose we're just going to have to agree to disagree. My contention is that G1/NZSP weren't much of a factor in the vast majority of offensive banes where we won, but keep claiming we defeated you and your Euro zerg with "CN" if that keeps your egos from shattering. From the looks of it, G1/NZSP brought a few in the first few banes with their participation dropping off completely in the later banes. It's also quite clear that you more than evened the odds when you started to bring in the Polanie/Sinister Sabotage/"Retribution" crew to assist you.

 

Nonetheless, you keep pasting the same screenshots that I had already addressed, over and over again, like some sort of juvenile dimwit.

 

"Other bane screenshots have been posted in this thread" - another disingenuous statement. You've posted screenshots from a whopping two banes, and have posted screenshots/videos from the same bane in multiple pages. It may appear to someone who hasn't bothered to read the progression of this argument that you are actually adducing more evidence, when this isn't the case. On the contrary, you're simply pasting the same evidence repeatedly with only slight alterations to the format (screenshots in one page, a video clip in another, more screenshots in another page - all of the same bane).

 

Your argument is so weak, and you're so desperate to distract from the weakness of your overall position that you're jumping for joy over what you thought was my failure to account for a single character in my statement. I am well aware that one can see eleven characters in the screenshot, and that a group of characters is composed of ten characters. Nonetheless, it's still more accurate to say that NZSP brought a group to this bane, as the substantive difference between ten and eleven characters is so minute that it's not even worth accounting for. The hilarious thing is that I knew you would make a fuss over it, further illustrating that your entire position has no substance. Having been refuted in your attempt to characterize CR's defeat as one that supposedly resulted from a zerging with assistance from a 'zerg' of "CN," you write replies that consist of splitting hairs over semantics, the same evidence from one bane posted over and over again, and an attempt to correct Latin grammar that can only be described as an epic fail.

 

Now that we've seen all of the evidence and the overall weakness of your position, we can draw the correct conclusions based on the proper deductions from the overall weight of this evidence. I'll even borrow Dubanka's format from earlier in the thread:

  • Myth: WM "zerged" CR with assistance from groups of "CN" at these banes.
  • Truth: Only a small amount of NZSP was involved, not "CN" or anything close to all of "CN." Despite the claims that WM used groups of CN and that these groups of CN were what supposedly won these banes, the most NZSP that were in attendance were eleven characters, and only for one of the earliest banes. In the later banes, NZSP made little to no contribution whatsoever. Furthermore, CR had allied with Retribution, a European zerg guild, at this point. Accordingly, CR at least evened the numbers, and possibly attained a superiority in numbers. They still got dumpstered.

Anyone who actually fought at these banes knows what transpired. Any marginal disparity in numbers didn't actually affect the outcome of most of these banes. In fact, CR had successfully defended their cities during the earliest banes where they were purportedly outnumbered most severely. They did so because their opposition had not yet changed their spec groups to account for CR's ATR debuff spires. This begs the question: if CR's forces actually increased in numbers as the war progressed (thanks to Retribution, their Euro ally) and WM's forces decreased in numbers as the war progressed (due to a decrease in the numerical contribution made by NZSP and Validation), why did CR start losing cities? It was because WM changed its spec group composition. Once WM started running its own shade thieves with a couple furies, CR's vamp xbow/dwarf thrower combination crumbled at every single bane. In fact, contrary to what the CR board warriors claim, once WM changed its spec group composition CR's forces only won defensive banes when their own forces attained a superiority in numbers. These are the simple facts, and repeatedly posting the same evidence from the exact same bane repeatedly will not change the truth of what actually transpired.

 

Now if you have any evidence that will contradict that truth, I would love to see it. The fact of the matter is that such evidence does not exist, because NZSP made little to no contribution to these later banes after (1) WM had changed its spec groups and after (2) Validation and WM had consolidated in WM's own Ventrilo. I know this because I dropped the vast majority of these banes myself, and hardly any NZSP were accounted for at these banes. The two videos posted by peekachew attest to this fact.


4H4LmCE.gif

Scourge of the Shadowbane community, Public Enemy No. 1 to the SBEMU Forum Moderators, and member of the "Suppressed Person" faction on the Ubiforums. The man responsible for hooking up Ceska and CheckYoTrack. Also a 21-time World Heavyweight Champion of Shadowbane.

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Not to support either emulator, but Starfish does know a heck of a lot about balance, I do respect his knowledge of the game, and haven't noticed anything "in particular" which was under or overpowering.

 

He also made a l33t new addition to the CRT

 

k0R3QpM.png?1

 

:D

 

* note - for any concerned fans, I've been permitted to keep my original forum title


4H4LmCE.gif

Scourge of the Shadowbane community, Public Enemy No. 1 to the SBEMU Forum Moderators, and member of the "Suppressed Person" faction on the Ubiforums. The man responsible for hooking up Ceska and CheckYoTrack. Also a 21-time World Heavyweight Champion of Shadowbane.

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Thousands of words and you still get assraped by everybody.

 

Thousands of posts riding my nuts won't ever make you relevant in the Shadowbane world.


4H4LmCE.gif

Scourge of the Shadowbane community, Public Enemy No. 1 to the SBEMU Forum Moderators, and member of the "Suppressed Person" faction on the Ubiforums. The man responsible for hooking up Ceska and CheckYoTrack. Also a 21-time World Heavyweight Champion of Shadowbane.

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Calendar of events - dates are bane live, not dropped dates. Y'all means your alliance, so as to differentiate the couple of banes at the beginning.

 

28 Aug - WM bane on Widowmakers CR Wins vs. WM

6 Sept - CR bane on Holam's town CR wins vs. WM

10 Sept - Validation Bane on SD's town - CR wins vs. Y'all

10 Sept - Bane on Wintershield - CR loses to Y'all (Video above)

10 Sept - Bane on The Hate Crew - CR wins vs. Y'all

11 Sept - Bane on CR Cap - CR wins vs. Y'all

11 Sept - Bane on Widowmakers - Y'all win

11 Sept - Bane on Shadow Dragon - CR wins vs. Y'all

11 Sept - CR bane on WM cap - WM wins (we no-showed while defending our other towns)

13 Sept - Bane on Holam's old town - Y'all win

16 Sept - WM bane on SD's town - CR wins vs. Y'all (Killspam available)

17 Sept - Bane on CR Cap - CR wins vs. Y'all (KIllspam Available)

17 Sept - CR Bane on old Widowmakers - Y'all win (Bane time moved day of to 3 hours earlier - we were not aware and no-showed)

18 Sept - Bane on The Black Watch - CR wins (Killspam available)

18 Sept - CR bane on old THC town - Y'all win (Screenshots above)

18 Sept - CR bane on Validation BH tree - Y'all win (we no-showed after seeing the numbers disparity at the above)

19 Sept - WM bane on Retribution - Retribution wins vs. Y'all (Included, as per Teer, CR joined in with 8 toons)

20 Sept - CN bane on SD's town - Y'all win (Killspam available)

21 Sept - Bane on Retribution (Ruby Ridge?)- Y'all win (Included because I believe this is the video you posted. Note that it is not a CR town)

23 Sept - Bane on Defiance - Y'all win (Included because this is the other video you posted. Once again note that this is not a CR town)

25 Sept - Bane on Ansu Black Ops - City owner subs to WM (CR had no one with IC to this tree, not was its owner in CR, but as it had been in CR months before, and I am certain you'll claim it as a victory, I included it nevertheless.)

27 Sept - WM bane on CR cap - CR wins

29 Sept - Validation bane on Dystopia - CR wins (Killspam available)

3 Oct - Server wipe announced for the following week

 

As you can see, the majority of your victories were early on, when CN was a major component of your forces. After Phylor began scheduling the banes in the afternoon, effectively removing them from the equation, you only took one more CR town. This was the bane on SD's town, which occurred in the evening due to the town owners not being available to run the bane at an earlier time. Obviously, this is also a CN bane where you assisted at.

 

I may have missed some in there, specifically the ones on towns that weren't CR, but that's the list I've got.

Edited by vandarr

CF_Van.png

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I already agreed that a group of NZSP showed to this bane as early as the fourth page in this thread.

 

Nonetheless, you keep pasting the same screenshots that I had already addressed, over and over again, like some sort of juvenile dimwit.

 

Now if you have any evidence that will contradict that truth, I would love to see it. The fact of the matter is that such evidence does not exist, because NZSP made little to no contribution to these later banes after (1) WM had changed its spec groups and after (2) Validation and WM had consolidated in WM's own Ventrilo. I know this because I dropped the vast majority of these banes myself, and hardly any NZSP were accounted for at these banes. The two videos posted by peekachew attest to this fact.

I reread your posts on the fourth page to be certain. You didn't admit to it being even as much as a group - your exact words "From the looks of it, G1/NZSP brought a few in the first few banes".

 

I kept posting them to force you to acknowledge their existence. Speaking of dimwits, the two vids you posted as taking CR towns from CR "with the assistance of Retribution" were apparently Retribution towns. That is as silly assertion to make - taking towns from someone who doesn't own them. Your exact words, quoted by you above, "I posted two videos where it's quite clear the NZSP presence was virtually nil. In the one video you can also see a ton of "Retribution" members assisting CR; that's an offensive bane that we won (thanks for the city) wherein G1/NZSP's presence was scant."

 

NZSP did, in fact, no longer show with large forces after the bane times began to be scheduled in the early afternoons EDT. Zero disagreement there, though you credit yourself as the cause (which I do disagree with). You will also notice from the calendar above that we stopped dropping offensive banes the last several weeks of the war. The banes of the 17th Sept, screenshot above, clearly showed that we simply didn't have the numbers to compete with you during the evening hours. As such, there was no point in wasting our time and resources pursuing it.

 

If you don't think NZSP's participation the first few weeks didn't directly impact these decisions, then you are even more egotistical than I thought.

Edited by vandarr

CF_Van.png

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