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A Comparison Of Crowfall And Camelot Unchained

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The Crowfall team is very willing to use the efforts of others. The use of Unity 5 proves their willingness to build on what others accomplished rather than wastefully ‘reinvent the wheel’. With that belief in mind I hope to create a fair and constantly updating comparison of the two games. This is so that Crowfall devs and the players base can hopefully learn from their most direct competitor and create a better game than Crowfall otherwise would have been.


To people who say that the games are like apples to oranges; I would respond by saying your type are the kind who would argue Call of Duty: Modern Warfare and Call of Duty: Black Ops are entirely different games. Yes they're different games, yes they have different features and game modes but they're not that different. 


To people who say they are not competitors read above and note two things: 1) they are coming out around the same time with a similar amount and depth of things to offer 2) no one who devotes a sensible amount of time to playing games has time to max out chars on both games.   


This topic or at the very least this post will not be a place to argue or discuss what you like or dislike. Instead this simply states the similarities and differences. But when I rate certain things in a game I do so along three lines: 1) Achievement feeling (or some other emotional high) 2) Awe factor 3)  Intriguing information.


If people want to help me expand this list please do not include things like: the marketing model, presentation style, business plan, who’s on the team, amount of work done before starting the kickstarter, ability to deliver the product etc. Instead please only focus on things that will be in the finished game.


Here are the sources used: everything ACE has released to the public, Allein's post, http://camelotunchained.com/v2/; http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/3608-progression-camelot-unchained-crowfall-comparison/page-2?hl=camelot%20unchained;http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2753-camelot-unchained-vs-crowfall/page-2?hl=camelot%20unchained

and this nifty "pre-alpha" game play of Camelot Unchained https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdLRYy3o-Qw.




  1.  ·         Crowfall is an MMORPG that is designed to be primarily pvp.
  2. ·          The combat locations will be procedurally generated through tile placement
  3. ·         The combat locations will be split up into separate mutually exclusive temporary campaigns
  4. ·         The peaceful locations will be persistent player run instanced zones which you can build and customize the look and rule set of.
  5.           Will have day and night.
  6.           Will have seasons.
  7. ·         PVE difficulty: will be a danger if you are dumb in a way that people in zombie shows are dumb.
  8.           Will have tournaments and ladders
  9.           Lore is not set in stone, could be more character individualized or could be divided into set themes
  10. ·         13 different races/archetypes that are not interchangeable
  11. ·         Will reach a soft cap quickly
  12. ·         Auto skill up
  13. ·         6 different attributes and 14 different stats with an unknown level of customization/min-maxing
  14. ·         Has advantages and disadvantages available at character creation
  15.           Will have player commanded NPCs (pets, caravans, shopkeepers, perhaps thralls)
  16.           Will not have non-player controlled friendly NPCs
  17.           Will be able to create tunnels and be able to travel inside that cavern for a limited time before it caves in.
  18. ·         There will be castle building and sieges.
  19. ·         Buildings will be premade with the option to customize them to an extent.
  20. ·         Combat will not have dedicated healing classes
  21. ·         No information on stealth
  22.           Crowfall is a little more action combat focused
  23. ·         CC and stuns will be more limited
  24. ·         No information on ability customization
  25. ·         Each separate campaign has different rules on who your teammates are including 3 faction based RvR.
  26. ·         Buildings and terrain will be destructible.
  27.           Artifacts and relics will have permanent bonus to the players in a kingdom and individually as a player respectively
  28.           Equipment will contribute to an overall armor bonus; no targeting specific limbs
  29.           Certain rule sets will have the ability to always target and attack all players; while others will not allow you to attack allies.
  30.           There will be collision detection and physics/force will be a large part of combat
  31. ·         Will have a range of loot rules of players from 60% to 100%
  32.           “will have robust crafting and economy”
  33.           There will be dedicated crafting classes
  34.           All items will decay in the campaign world with some aesthetic KS items having the ability to be recrafted.
  35. ·         Has caravans to help transport resources.
  36. ·         Does not have interconnected atms/banks
  37. ·         Has the option to make currency
  38. ·         No information on a bounty system either way
  39. ·         No “speed classes” (except for legionnaires) Instead they will have mounts that can die.
  40. ·         Less detail more comic book feel
  41. ·         No NPC given quests
  42.           No information on UI modding
  43.          Will have virtual reality



Camelot Unchained

  1. ·         Camelot Unchained is an MMORPG that is designed to be primarily pvp.
  2. ·         The combat locations will be changing tiles that will shift and move about without “stabilizers”.
  3. ·         The combat locations will be in one world
  4. ·         The peaceful locations will be persistent developer made cities.
  5.           Will have day and night.
  6.           Will not have seasons.
  7. ·         PVE difficulty: will be for crafting and a distraction to pass the time (with the except of the depths).
  8.           No word on smaller scale pvp or tournament tacking.
  9.           Lore and the player's back story is locked into three different themes:honor, nature, raiders
  10. ·         18 different races with the base model reused a few times. Has classes which multiple races can be
  11. ·         Will not reach the soft cap quickly
  12. ·         Skill up based on things you do but receives the skill bonuses at the end of the day
  13. ·         25 different customizable stats from strength to vision
  14. ·         Has advantages and disadvantages available at character creation
  15.           No information on player controlled NPCs
  16.           Will have non-player controlled friendly NPCs.
  17.           Indoors and inside caverns will be a large portion of combat locations
  18. ·         There will be castle building and sieges.
  19. ·         The player creates their own buildings and can save them as blue prints.
  20. ·         Combat will use the traditional trinity system
  21. ·         Stealth is uncertain at this point. In the past it has been stated that: Stalkers will be able to detect stealthiers and                                                           stealthiers will go through the “veil” which will have dangerous things.
  22.           Will have tab target based combat
  23. ·         CC and stuns will be used
  24. ·         Spells/abilities have three different levels of runes and can be combined with other spells A.I.R. system
  25. ·         Will use 3 faction based RvR for determination of teammates.
  26. ·         Buildings will be destructible
  27.           No planned guild/group bonuses
  28.           Armor is specific to the body part; abilities can target specific body parts
  29.           No attacking players in the same realm
  30.           There will be collision detection but no physics/force engine.
  31.           Will have no looting of players; instead the consequences for death will be similar to DAoC
  32. ·         “will have robust crafting and economy”
  33.           There will be dedicated crafting classes but a limit to how much they can craft a day.
  34.           All items will decay in the campaign world with all items having blue prints that allow the item to be remade
  35. ·         Has a unique crafting table that is supposed to be both engaging and fun.
  36. ·         Does not have interconnected atms/banks
  37. ·         Does not have the option to create currency
  38. ·          a bounty system
  39. ·         “speed classes”
  40. ·         More detailed graphics
  41. ·         No NPC given quests
  42. ·         Allows robust UI modding
  43.           Will not have virtual reality


Edit: It seems this forum does not like comparison charts so I will just have to do a numbered list. Each numbered point corresponds and relates to the other game's numbered point.This list is by no means exhaustive but it's as good as I'm going to do today.

Edited by Holyvigil
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Mark's game will be cool and totally worth playing is my bet (I'm a backer, of course!).  Many of the people here will try it at some point is my expectation.   We aren't arrogant enough to think th

You should reorganize this so each point is compared directly. Or make it a table, with each poin... Nevermind, I'm bored at work:  

I'm just happy that after 10 years of WOWs reign some epic developers decided PVP is THE GAME and not "tacked onto" the game! Its a really interesting era (the crowd sourced era) to be a part of. Watc

The lore is about the single most over lapped thing that I've seen so far.


Beyond that they are as much alike as CF is to Albion Online or Darkfall or EVE or DAOC etc. etc. They are all PVP games but all entirely different brands of PVP.


CU seems to be going for a "world to live and fight in" CF seems to be more of a "game to fight in". Different main audiences. Different pace of combat, mechanics, targetting, UI, etc etc etc even the building plans are entirely different.


The only thing they will truly share by their launches is the PVP floaters that bounce between PVP games. 

Edited by tierless

I role play a wordsmith.


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To people who say that the games are like apples to oranges; I would respond by saying your type are the kind who would argue Call of Duty: Modern Warfare and Call of Duty: Black Ops are entirely different games. Yes they're different games, yes they have different features and game modes but they're not that different. 


Have no personal experience with the COD series myself, but to me it is more like CS compared to TF2. Both are FPS games, but beyond that, everything else is pretty different. I enjoy both, but for completely different reasons. Or League compared to SMITE. Can't stand LOL, but SMITE is enjoyable at times, despite them sharing a lot of the same general game play design.


Relatively speaking CU and CF have much less in common than either of those 2 comparisons, in my mind at least.


#3 & #17 being two of the the major differences that turn the comparison into apples and oranges for me. One is a 3 faction "traditional" RVR persistent system while the other could have an endless number of rulesets, time limits, and win conditions. These are what will be the decided factor for many I'd assume.


Interesting "positive" way to look at the to products, but I personally wouldn't want any of CU in CF. From the looks of it, ACE is on the same page and everything I have concern about with CU is being left out or done very differently in CF. Not really sure what ACE could "learn" from another Pre-Alpha product at this point, also considering the talent/history of both teams, don't really think they need to peek at the desk next to them to get the answers.


As far as your list goes:



#6 - 13 Archetypes (More to come as time/funding allow)

#9 - 6 Attributes, 14 Stats (That can be seen on creation SS)

#14 - While not "confirmed", stealth was alluded to exist and considering the SB connections, should be a given.


Could add a # for the following: 


Combat Type: CF - Action Combat most likely with aiming, skill shots, animation locks, etc & CU - Some form of Tab?


Post Creation Character Customization: CF - Pick and stick with 1 of 3 or more Promotion Classes, Acquire up to 3 Disciplines that can be changed (Total to choose from unknown, but large pool). CU - Not sure how it works.


Crafter: Actual playstyle and focus of a character (for both I believe).


Artifacts/Relics: CF - Earn up to 3 for added bonuses, CU - Assuming they will exist, not sure mechanic.


Death: CF - % loot/gear will drop depending on ruleset. CU - No player looting.


Mounts: CF - Yes, CU - Not at this time


Pets: CF - Optional for most if not all Archetypes, CU - Not at this time.


Attack Individual Body Parts: CF - No, CU - Yes


Friendly Fire: CF - Possible depending on ruleset, CU - Unknown


Collision: CF - Yes, CU - Unknown


Item Decay: CF/CU - Yes


Tournaments: CF - Yes, CU - No


Uncle Bob: CF- No to short term, CU - Yes


Victory Conditions: CF - Yes, CU - No?


Multiple Paths to "Victory": CF - Yes, CU - No?

Edited by allein



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all this is pre alpha. most if not all of this could change to add a ton more to either game.

"people are stupid , given the proper motivation can be made to believe any lie; either because they want to believe it is true or because they fear it is true" - wizard's first rule

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DAoC is still playable but no one who has played it wants to go back to playing it.  Camelot Unchained is trying to be the spiritual successor to that.  The DAoC white knights are going around rabbling because Camelot Unchained doesn't fit the lore/look/feel of a DAoC2.


Shadowbane is not still (technically) playable and people who are jonesing are going to private servers.  Crowfall is trying to learn from those mistakes and do something different.  Shadowbane folks are going around aggressively asserting themselves thanking people for being free loot bags who don't want PVP.


I think the PVP community is leaning toward Crowfall; however it depends on the launch dates coinciding with one another at all.  I have a feeling people will dabble in both desperate to find meaningful PVP that isn't regulated to arenas or battlegrounds.


Been around the MMO Block...


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Action vs tab target, FFA + RvRvR vs RvRvR, full loot vs none = there's no doubt which game I prefer.


It's not just that (I lean the same as you) but also the fact that Camelot Unchained stylizes itself as the spiritual successor to DAoC while throwing out things that actually caused many fond memories of DAoC. And in addition struggles to be unique in other aspects that are likely not that interesting to begin with and thus are simply making things overly complicated (like the vox magica crafting or this rubbish ado about how to implement stealth while trying to implement stealth not at all).


Crowfall in comparison, while also paving it's own way seems much more down to earth with it's core concepts.

Edited by Angier
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You can compare the two games, but i can almost assure you that where people play this game because they are former SB players... .Daoc players will play CU because they are former Daoc players.... 


Playing the Alpha i felt like i was playing DAOC and it brought back some of my fondest online memories. The RvR system is alot of fun, and the classes are enjoyable ( even limted in alpha ) ... Now with that said both games got me for a little over 200 each... and i plan to try both but CF is by far sounding better to me over all then CU

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#19 is the difference between the two....and the reason that 99% of us are backing Crowfall.


Player Looting!!  either partial loot, or 100% full loot!!


Camelot...Its just another KareBear PvE MMO, that are a dime a dozen.


Crowfall....just by the Player Looting element, makes the game different and exciting to lots of MMO gamers who have been waiting for a game like this.


Player looting brings so much more to the gameplay that you can possibly understand, unless you have played a full loot game, you have no idea.


I believe, that there is really no comparison to Camelot to Crowfall.  There are two completely different games entirely.  Sure, they may look the same, run the same, classes the same.....but once you put in full loot vrs no loot.....it changes everything.


In other words....Crowfall = PvP......Camelot is PvE



Edited by snowmizer


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Personally I love making list and stuff so I can't say anything negative about your initiative OP.


However when it comes to decide CF or CU, for me, I base decision on :



CF : Action, aiming, fluidity  :)

CU : Tab-Targeting



CF : Order / Chaos / Balance - 12 Gods  :)

CU : Vikings, Tuatha Dé Danann, Arthurians



CF : new - MMO Throne War Simulator  :)

CU : old - MMORPG

Edited by courant101
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Updated the list with some of your notes Allein and some of my own research. 

Allein, your note on #14 is not confirmed so I won't put it in. Yes it's a game from the makers of SB but this is Crowfall. The uncle Bob problem is subjective so I can not put it in a list of facts (maybe you could describe something confirmed in the game related to it?);. Your last two points are sumed up by saying there will be separate game modes with temporary campaigns.  


fenrisddevil and Courant101, I don't think action combat is confirmed yet for Crowfall if it is could you find the source?


Courtant101: they can call the game any genre they want. This topic is for what's in the game not their claims.

Edited by Holyvigil
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I get the history but I feel like fans are just pushing this concept for entertainment because I dont see the actual VS. What about poor little Albion Online? Shouldn't it be AO vs CF vs CU!?!?! Shroud has PVP shouldn't it be in the mix? What about SC? SC has PVP right? It just seems a bit silly, fun but silly. Like (climbs on bar stool) "Ali vs Tyson" or "Lebron vs Jordan" or "Coke vs Pepsi in a cage fight". 

Edited by tierless

I role play a wordsmith.


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fenrisddevil and Courant101, I don't think action combat is confirmed yet for Crowfall if it is could you find the source?


From the Combat FAQ :


1. Does combat use tab-targeting?


No. We’ve tried to make combat in Crowfall a little more action-combat focused, than your traditional MMO.  For instance, we have “dashes” that you use to avoid attacks, as opposed to a passive (randomized) dodge system.  Finding the right balance on this one has been extremely challenging from a design perspective, but we think we’ve found a mid-point. Hopefully you’ll agree.


2. How does targeting work?


Generally, melee attacks happen in the area in front of the character.  There is no hard “target”.  Attacks use various shapes such as: cones, rectangles, and spheres. 


3. What is the simulation model? Can players “walk through” other players? How are projectiles simulated?


We use a physics model for character movement and combat simulation. This means that players and projectiles move realistically in the 3D environment, with momentum and inertia. This implies a number of interesting side effects that you probably aren’t used to (like players being unable to move through each other, projectiles hitting accidental targets, etc.) 


4. How will combat “feel” in Crowfall?


In deciding what we want combat to “look and feel like,” we are drawing a lot of our inspiration from other recent MMOs. We love the idea of action-combat – but we have to make sure the game doesn’t get too “twitchy” (i.e. require lightning fast reflexes or too much button-mashing).

Combat has certain elements that are similar to Wildstar (our movement includes things sprints, dashes, and double jumps) and other elements that are similar to TERA (combo attacks that have short “locked” animation sequences – chains which you can opt to continue or break, for a cost.)

The result – when combined with our voxel terrain and physics based movement systems – is combat sequences that looks more fluid, feel more visceral and require more tactical thinking.



Courtant101: they can call the game any genre they want. This topic is for what's in the game not their claims.


The games are in Pre-Alpha, all what we see in the in-game footage is subject to change. Same thing goes for the developers' announcements.


When ACE says Crowfall is a new genre of MMO, a Throne War Simulator, it's most likely because the mix of features makes it original to a point where they feel it differs too much from a MMORPG to include it in this genre. More information on what's in the game : Strategy FAQ, Kickstarter Update (tournament system), Campaign FAQ.

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