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Holyvigil

A Comparison Of Crowfall And Camelot Unchained

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/sarcasm on

 

"Throne war simulator like EVE and Game of Thrones meets Hunger Games and Breaking Bad and House of Cards and Oculus and Shadowbane with some MOBA and a server for everyone who loves PVP plus EK for people that dont and board gamers too..." 

 

VS

 

"Camelot Unchained is a Tri-Realm™ MMORPG where you can become a legendary warrior, crafter, or a leader of your Realm with a counter revolutionairy old school all new BSC ideas and not DAOC 2 or even spiritually like it but with RVR and 3 familiar factions..."

 

See, nothing alike what is so hards to understand about this?  :D

 

/sarcasm off


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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Updated the list with some of your notes Allein and some of my own research. 

Allein, your note on #14 is not confirmed so I won't put it in. Yes it's a game from the makers of SB but this is Crowfall. The uncle Bob problem is subjective so I can not put it in a list of facts (maybe you could describe something confirmed in the game related to it?);. Your last two points are sumed up by saying there will be separate game modes with temporary campaigns.  

 

fenrisddevil and Courant101, I don't think action combat is confirmed yet for Crowfall if it is could you find the source?

 

Action Combat: Courant101 provided details, but the "action combat" design is confirmed at this point, just a matter of seeing it to get a better idea beyond "Tera like" that they've used to describe it. As they are still making the system, doubt we'll see it too soon. Regardless, the early combat shown is "action combat" going off of the typical use of the term, they are just ditching telegraphs from the sound of it.

 

 

New # or update to #13

 

 

NPCs: While you listed that CF will have player controlled, it will not have atmospheric or merchant NPCs that just exist in the world because there won't be dev created cities and what not. NPCs will either be monsters in the world or NPCs placed by players with a purpose. 

 

 

CU will have “filler” and merchant NPCs in at least the cities from my understanding. http://camelot-unchained.wikia.com/wiki/PvE_%26_Loot_Drops

 

 

Which might be looked at as trivial, but ties into some of the larger differences between the two with one having "static" safe cities/zones within the persistent world and one being open world without such. EKs are more along the lines of CU's Housing within the safe zones, while not similar at all really.

 

 

Dungeons: CF may have open world PVE POIs, but no word on "dungeons". CU will have The Depths.

 

 

Instances: CF none at this point. CU limited for “special” use.

 

 

Seasons: CF confirmed and major part of design. CU not “confirmed” that I’ve seen.

 

 

Uncle Bob - Win/Loss - Start/Finish - Victory Conditions: Not sure how to itemize this as a list item, but it is very important and a large difference between the two. For me it brings it to "what's the point of playing?" which is a question asked for every game.

 

 

From my understanding, a realm and maybe large guild/alliance could potentially dominate a server in CU. Don’t believe they’ve given any non gamey mechanics or hard ideas as to how they will keep this from happening or if players will have to accept it as is. Essentially making long term “winners/losers” and the whole Uncle Bob situation which leads to player retention problems.

 

 

CF on the other hand is basically being built around the idea of shorter term experiences that will add to the overall experience of playing the game and the in/out of campaign politics. Much easier to jump in/out of playing without a major loss. Taking a break from the game shouldn't put a player or guilds miles behind.

 

 

Maybe could list it like…

 

 

Complete Victory or Loss Obtainable: CF yes on multiple scales, CU not really.

 

 

Might not capture it exactly or be very simplified, but the level of politics, strategy, and possibilities that are possible due to the temp campaign design compared to a persistent world are very different.

 

 

Character Faction Lock: Can’t find source, but I believe I read that CU may limit an account to one realm, even across multiple servers. CF has not alluded to this and I hope neither actually does as it removes a lot of player option. As players could/can purchase CU packs with specific realm forum access, I'm assuming there might be some restrictions in place to promote realm pride.

Edited by allein

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Mark's game will be cool and totally worth playing is my bet (I'm a backer, of course!).  Many of the people here will try it at some point is my expectation.

 

We aren't arrogant enough to think that our game will resonate with every player, and I personally hope that CU gets lots of attention so that people will check it out.

 

The awesome thing going on today is that there are several teams (including our two teams) striking out in different directions from the way the MMO market had been going for years.

 

It's not a zero sum game, the MMO market is big enough for plenty of quality experiences.


Gordon Walton, ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.  [Rules of Conduct]

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

 

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Mark's game will be cool and totally worth playing is my bet (I'm a backer, of course!).  Many of the people here will try it at some point is my expectation.

 

We aren't arrogant enough to think that our game will resonate with every player, and I personally hope that CU gets lots of attention so that people will check it out.

 

The awesome thing going on today is that there are several teams (including our two teams) striking out in different directions from the way the MMO market had been going for years.

 

It's not a zero sum game, the MMO market is big enough for plenty of quality experiences.

 

I'm just happy that after 10 years of WOWs reign some epic developers decided PVP is THE GAME and not "tacked onto" the game! Its a really interesting era (the crowd sourced era) to be a part of. Watching so many Kings of MMO past come back has been really fun and I feel like in a few years we will have some actual variety in the genre again. 

 

MMOs needed to stop being "games" (and mimicing them) and get back to their strenghts, trying to be dangerous, consequencial online worlds to live in (and fight in) again. Hopefully the crowd funding has granted them the freedom to persue that and more.


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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Mark's game will be cool and totally worth playing is my bet (I'm a backer, of course!).  Many of the people here will try it at some point is my expectation.

 

We aren't arrogant enough to think that our game will resonate with every player, and I personally hope that CU gets lots of attention so that people will check it out.

 

The awesome thing going on today is that there are several teams (including our two teams) striking out in different directions from the way the MMO market had been going for years.

 

It's not a zero sum game, the MMO market is big enough for plenty of quality experiences.

 

The good feels

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Mark's game will be cool and totally worth playing is my bet (I'm a backer, of course!).  Many of the people here will try it at some point is my expectation.

 

I totally will, they have some neat ideas. Not sure how they'll go with Uncle Bob though.


David Sirlin's Balancing Multiplayer Games should be mandatory reading for all gamers.

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I haven't followed CU's development closely, but if it's a static fortress model like DAoC then Uncle Bob isn't really an issue because no team can really secure a persistent dominant position. The keeps are only yours until somebody takes them; there's not too much of a rich-get-richer problem.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Camelot...Its just another KareBear PvE MMO, that are a dime a dozen.

In other words....Crowfall = PvP......Camelot is PvE

I get that you don't support CU or the type of PvP that it has to offer, but calling a game without any PvE a PvE game isn't fair. While player looting, whether it is full, partial, or inventory looting adds a certain layer to gaming compared to those games who don't, I will still support a PvP game like CU over a PvE game any day of the week. There is room for different types of PvPers in both games and I will gladly support both.

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Updated the list.

 

Allein There will not be faction locks here the link:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/interview/camelot-unchained-interview-mark-jacobs

 

halethrain: thanks for creating the chart; the questions are a good idea. I'll try to create a chart sometime next week with my info on it. I spent a couple hours trying to figure out how to get my chart in correctly but gave up and settled on a list.

 

 

Evoex: CU actually does have confirmed stealth here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWQWvcvxOjI 

Edited by Holyvigil

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[...]

 

Evoex: CU actually does have confirmed stealth here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWQWvcvxOjI 

 

Since then, much time has passed and up until now the definition of "Veil", "Veilstalker", "Veilwalkers" is as much up in the air as how this is going to provide a stealth-experience at all. At times, Jacobs even seemed to be unsure to have anything stealth related at all in CU.

 

So, no, despite any claims to the contrary, the status of "Stealth?" in CU is very much "unknown".

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Since then, much time has passed and up until now the definition of "Veil", "Veilstalker", "Veilwalkers" is as much up in the air as how this is going to provide a stealth-experience at all. At times, Jacobs even seemed to be unsure to have anything stealth related at all in CU.

 

So, no, despite any claims to the contrary, the status of "Stealth?" in CU is very much "unknown".

 

Ok. I'll trust you and switch it to unknown.

 

Do you have any sources verifying CU's uncertainty or contradictory statements?

Edited by Holyvigil

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Ok. I'll trust you and switch it to unknown.

 

Do you have any sources verifying CU's uncertainty or contradictory statements?

 

http://camelot-unchained.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth

 

I'm not a backer or following CU beyond curiosity as a DAoC/WAR fan, but overall, I get the impression that much of CU is still uncertain. At least compared to CF, things seem much less nailed down after ~2.5 years of development. I have a hard time watching their videos as they seem to be talking from the "wouldn't this be cool" or "this is what we would like" but not a lot of "this is how it will be." I'm still uncertain how many classes there will be or how it will even work. Thought there would be X classes at launch, now seems they are going with more of a pick a base archetype then a promo class? Too lazy to look though  :)

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Updated the list.

 

Allein There will not be faction locks here the link:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/interview/camelot-unchained-interview-mark-jacobs

 

Thanks for the link, glad they aren't going with faction locking.

 

Still worried about the "Uncle Bob" problem that they talked about.

 

Hopefully they come up with something that makes losing "fun" but I see it being even less fun then DAoC. Believe they gave losers some bonuses/perks, and it wasn't terrible to be on a server dominated by one realm, but it was also focused on POI control. Players could go back to their home realm where there was other stuff to do in a very large area. Then go back as a force to slowly recapture POI.

 

If CU has a smaller "safe" area with less to do (no real PVE) and POI control is more complex with land needed to begin building structures and making a foothold, if one side starts to dominate, it might become increasing difficult and painful for the 1-2 other realms to be able to do anything productive.

 

Again this is why CU and CF really aren't apples to apples. The persistent element makes a huge difference to pretty much everything.

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These two games will actually coexist very nicely.  I imagine some people that are following one or the other may eventually find the game that they are following isn't quite what they want, and the other one might be a better fit. 

 

Agreed, best case scenario they'll complement each other for many years to come.


Member of The BlackHand Order

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http://camelot-unchained.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth

 

I'm not a backer or following CU beyond curiosity as a DAoC/WAR fan, but overall, I get the impression that much of CU is still uncertain. At least compared to CF, things seem much less nailed down after ~2.5 years of development. I have a hard time watching their videos as they seem to be talking from the "wouldn't this be cool" or "this is what we would like" but not a lot of "this is how it will be." I'm still uncertain how many classes there will be or how it will even work. Thought there would be X classes at launch, now seems they are going with more of a pick a base archetype then a promo class? Too lazy to look though  :)

 

The Wiki links to statements that are before the video I linked. Unless there is a clear consensus on the CU forums that they don't want what was proposed in the video I think the video is enough of a effort to show the devs commitment to their proposal. 

But I can understand the concern; as I continue to read through things in CU a lot of the readings seem to be theories and thoughts rather than facts.

Edited by Holyvigil

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