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Gradishar

A Request For A Very Important Stretch Goal...

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As thing sit right now (and as I currently understand things) Archetypes are a pre-set Class/Race combination. Centaurs are Legionnaires...Elves are Frostweavers...Humans can be Confessors, Templars, Knights, Rangers...Elken are Stalkers. I understand the need for this...as the graphical resources needed to make Elvish Knights and Elken Duelists are considerable. The problems inherent in "balancing" are magnified considerably if one were to break apart Archetypes into Races and Classes and allow various (even limited) combinations. I get all that. Unfortunately...that's what we as modern MMO players have come to expect. While diversifying your character during gameplay with advancing the toon from Knight to either Swordsman, Crusader or Sentinel and then further diversifying your toon with Disciplines (Bounty Hunter vs Gladiator vs Marksman) ...creating different skills and specialities to make your toon play differently and optimizing them for different scenarios...is all well and good...but I fundamentally believe that limiting these wonderful and diverse races to single starting Archetypes is a serious mistake. Please consider (as an additional stretch goal worthy of additional investment) the breaking apart of Archetypes into both race and class options...allow Humans to play all Archetypes...allow the Fae to play Druids, Assassins and Frostweavers....allow Centaurs to play Legionnaires, Stalkers, Forgemasters and Rangers...allow Elken to play Stalkers, Rangers and Druids...etc etc etc. Yes...it will take considerably more time and effort to accomplish...but the pay off..in terms of diversity in character creation...diversity in toon builds...diversity in guilds...diversity in army composition...and overall satisfaction with the game will be well worth it. 

Edited by Gradishar

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"Alright, once we hit $100 mil, we'll make it a stretch goal."

Edited by primal

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It's odd, obviously you played on shadowbane where there were balance reasons for some professions being restricted from certain races. But since you lack an understanding of balance, I'm assuming you play SBemu....

 

WoW launched with like 4 races each side and 9 classes. They also had a virtually unlimited budget.

 

Shadowbane has 12 races and almost twice as many professions. I think we will be alright.

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It's odd, obviously you played on shadowbane where there were balance reasons for some professions being restricted from certain races. But since you lack an understanding of balance, I'm assuming you play SBemu....

 

WoW launched with like 4 races each side and 9 classes. They also had a virtually unlimited budget.

 

Shadowbane has 12 races and almost twice as many professions. I think we will be alright.

 

 

I'm not sure why you believe I lack an understanding of balance based upon this request. Yes...I played Shadowbane...from Alpha until Ubisoft turned out the lights. Yes...I understand why Confessors were only allowed to be humans (for lore reasons) and why Templars were only allowed to be Humans or HalfGiants (again for lore reasons). Loreplay servers were not a part of alpha, beta or initial commercial release...but they became some of the most popular ways of playing because they were more challenging...by limiting group compositions you increased the level of difficulty and thereby made the game more fun (IMHO). Adding racial diversity to your Archetypes is certainly not going to be easy...it means a lot in terms of graphical design and insuring that the racial advantages/disadvantages do not create too much imbalance in builds...but it is EXACTLY that problem which made Shadowbane playable years after the initial land rush scenarios lost their luster. Building spec groups...finding new and innovative race/class combinations..."Theorybane" as we used to call it...added a dimension to the game that WoW and EQ and UO and AC just never had. Giving us racial diversity for Archetypes adds that much needed element IMHO...and while it may mean (in realistic business terms) too many man hours to properly implement given the current funding parameters and launch goals...I felt it important enough to bring to the Devs' attention.

Edited by Gradishar

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Much rather they add new races along with new classes over time as unique packages. Actually wish they'd gone with fewer "humans".

 

Most games where races can be a wide variety of classes make each very bland. All spell casters cast the same all melee swing the same. Very boring.

 

For RP or personal preference it is good, but for depth to game play and strategy, doesn't really add much.

 

I prefer to know what the Centaur charging my way is capable of then insert any number of random possibilities.

 

From the sound of it, many Archetypes didn't make the cut. I'd much rather we see those before picking a new class to add to a revealed race at random. Unless someone feels like handing them a few million or whatever it would cost to do it.

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UO had humans and no classes. I think we will manage! Thanks for your opinion though, I'll add it to my pile.

 

To be fair, I work in and industry that is changing more than any I know. People's expectations are going to have to change. What they have come to expect to do everyday may not be an option in five to ten years.

 

Sometimes you have to change your expectations to enjoy a different experience and that is a good thing. If this game has all races and classes mixed up, non-combat fluff pets, tons of funny emotes and the like... aren't we just the same? Is it so bad to be something different?

 

TL,DR

 

Ahahahahaha, no.

Edited by Adall

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I think that for most folks the limited archetype/class combinations are not a dealbreaker.  We're already dealing with a niche game focused on PvP with a robust crafting system and no tab targeting.  You've knocked out so many player types with just the previous sentence that limited starting archetype/class combo's are kind of a by the wayside part of the decision making process imo.

 

However, if ACE decides down the road to mix things up a bit because they've extra money and have run out of guinecean classes to create I'm all for it.


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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... Seriously, if your gonna beg, at least make it legible and concise. Nobodies even gonna get to your basic request because there isn't a single paragraph break...


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Gradishar's suggestion would serve to open up the game to more folks as well.  Twelve arch-types means, that on the most basic level, there's twelve ways to play this game.

 

Split those up and the game is suddenly wide open with nigh endless possibilities.  It's hard to get bored when there's so many combinations of characters you haven't even tried yet.

 

...and when people get bored, they start asking for in game houses and crap (which I'm actually fine with as long as other folks can burn them down), or look to the next game.


CF_Ror_zpspm6enxco.png

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Most people shooting the idea down have probably never played a game where race matters and is not just a visual thing so I can understand why they don't see it as a good thing.

 

I think some races should be able to be other classes, not saying everything should be open to every class but race/class/professions/disciplines in shadowbane made for one of the most dynamic character building game I've ever heard of.

 

I agree it should be a stretch goal.

 

/thread


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I like locked race/class combo's but what i don't like is one race one class thing that CF seems to offer.. At least make me try to guess who i'm fighting but if i can tell the class based on the race it takes some of the fun out of a fight. ( i use to love playing a Innonu Arms with a cloth jerking on in daoc )

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Most people shooting the idea down have probably never played a game where race matters and is not just a visual thing so I can understand why they don't see it as a good thing.

 

I think some races should be able to be other classes, not saying everything should be open to every class but race/class/professions/disciplines in shadowbane made for one of the most dynamic character building game I've ever heard of.

 

I agree it should be a stretch goal.

 

/thread

 

To me this is all about the "visual things."

 

No disagreement that having races with access to multiple classes, and races with differing pros/cons & stats adds to character depth, but you have to factor in art assets of today.

 

Shadowbane compared to modern games and to its contemporaries was very low on the variety scale when it came to visuals. I only played it briefly, but what was there like two animations per race? It wasn't exactly a animation loaded game.

 

This is where they have to make hard decisions and design choices. Make each Archetype unique or use the same animations with different skins? I'd much rather have 13+ very unique looking options then 1 with 50 different skins.

 

I'm assuming that each base Archetype will have animations, each Pro Class will have another set, then however Disciplines will factor in (Werewolf Human = Werewolf Guinecean models?).

 

Factor in "action combat" movement of dodging, blocking, and actually moving around and not standing still swinging or waving hands in the air (SB style) and it gets pretty complicated per unique race/class combo.

 

While they may and could just reuse animations from one class to the next for one race, I find that rather boring.

 

Would I enjoy more variety when it comes to builds? Of course, but not at the expense of the game looking like most others that go the multi class option for races.

 

Going the route they are gives them the option to really focus in and make each unique. But there is nothing stopping them from adding more variety down the line, when the funding and support is actually there.

 

Quality > Quantity at launch. But even then, as I said above, I'd rather they add in 10 new unique race/class combos then just make X race + Y class that are already available.

Edited by allein

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Certain archetypes being locked to races is actually very appealing to me when it comes to Crowfall. From my understanding of what the game is I would have to agree with some here that the visual aid for information is very beneficial. That knowledge of knowing your opponent could turn the tide of a battle.

To be honest, I hope they keep it this way rather than unlocking all archetypes for all races.

I prefer the diversity in character progression rather than the initial stage, sure initial character diversity is good and you need that to a certain extent (especially for RP) but I feel Crowfall's diversity will mostly be "felt" in, for example, combat as you can actually feel the difference between two characters and they progressed.

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